Why free will is only partial free will at best.

The main reason why free will is hardly free at all is because I didn't choose to live this life in the first place. Unless, as some spiritual experts believe, I did, in fact, choose this life.

Moreover, if free will was really free, I should be able to levitate by will alone. There are obvious restrictions to free will due to natural laws. Anything that is restricted isn't free. Would you say prisoners are free? They can only move where their walls allow.

You might can say I have human will. That would be more accurate. But is human will even undetermined? That's the question you usually hear in these debates. I'm just saying we don't have free will because, for one, our will is restricted, and for two, we didn't choose to be born into this restrictive environment. For will, being born is like being sentenced.

Why free will is only partial free will at best.

Is that notion disconcerting to you?

Originally posted by satron

Why free will is only partial free will at best.

Is that notion disconcerting to you?

Nah. I'm human and there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well play my role.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Moreover, if free will was really free, I should be able to levitate by will alone. There are obvious restrictions to free will due to natural laws. Anything that is restricted isn't free. Would you say prisoners are free? They can only move where their walls allow.

I think free will refers to choices that you make. Choices that concern right and wrong. So while you think there are natural laws to this, you are able to make your own descisions.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Nah. I'm human and there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well play my role.

And I take it your role is a sentence - according to your opening post.

How sad.

What if the only thing holding you to that sentence, that place of restriction and thwarted will, was your very belief and perceptions of that limitation?

Just food for thought on this Thanksgiving holiday.

I was going to say if you were, that you were further imprisoning yourself by holding a notion of free will that doesn't exist higher than what we've actually being given.

It would be like a kid depressed because he couldn't fly around and shoot energy balls like a DBZ character.

Can't say I agree with this totally but you do make some great points and I like that you're thinking this creatively.

S&F

reply to post by smithjustinb


You want to insist you are a human. A single disconnected being determined to claim more will outside your limited self.

Free will made the multiverse. What will willed the laws of gravity? Space? Time? The truth is the only will that exists is the one that controls what you call "you". And on some level you have yet to associate with, YOU are that will.

That is free will. You are free to associate with a false reality or free to claim your will as the will of the creator. It's no easy task to wake up and admit Truth/Reality. But you as God willed it so here you as "disconnected person without free will" are.

You cannot make yourself God. You cannot simply will yourself to levitate. You can only admit that what you associate yourself to is not real. When you get rid of everything that is not real, what you have left is the only thing that truly has free will.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
The main reason why free will is hardly free at all is because I didn't choose to live this life in the first place. Unless, as some spiritual experts believe, I did, in fact, choose this life.

Moreover, if free will was really free, I should be able to levitate by will alone. There are obvious restrictions to free will due to natural laws. Anything that is restricted isn't free. Would you say prisoners are free? They can only move where their walls allow.

You might can say I have human will. That would be more accurate. But is human will even undetermined? That's the question you usually hear in these debates. I'm just saying we don't have free will because, for one, our will is restricted, and for two, we didn't choose to be born into this restrictive environment. For will, being born is like being sentenced.

edit on 24-11-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

Interesting.....

Although, I would say "free will" is man made. Only we can define its purposes.
A lot like time, it only exists because we exist.
For me, free will is in the ability to make a decision. It is my will to make a left turn or right turn. No one else's. For those in prison, it was in there will to decide to break the law. There will took them there. IMO

reply to post by smithjustinb


Who says you can't levitate? Maybe your will to do so just isn't strong enough.....

Originally posted by Open2Truth
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Nah. I'm human and there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well play my role.

And I take it your role is a sentence - according to your opening post.

How sad.

What if the only thing holding you to that sentence, that place of restriction and thwarted will, was your very belief and perceptions of that limitation?

Just food for thought on this Thanksgiving holiday.

edit on 11/24/2011 by Open2Truth because: quote code misshap

Not my sentence. The sentence of free will. Free will becomes confined to the human will. All I can do is what is natural for a human to do. I go to work, go to school, buy a house, pay taxes, and die. That's what humans do. And they say we have free will. No, we have human will.

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

You want to insist you are a human. A single disconnected being determined to claim more will outside your limited self.

Free will made the multiverse. What will willed the laws of gravity? Space? Time? The truth is the only will that exists is the one that controls what you call "you". And on some level you have yet to associate with, YOU are that will.

That is free will. You are free to associate with a false reality or free to claim your will as the will of the creator. It's no easy task to wake up and admit Truth/Reality. But you as God willed it so here you as "disconnected person without free will" are.

You cannot make yourself God. You cannot simply will yourself to levitate. You can only admit that what you associate yourself to is not real. When you get rid of everything that is not real, what you have left is the only thing that truly has free will.

Good point. It is not my will, but rather the will of God. Happy Thanksgiving!

Originally posted by webpirate
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Who says you can't levitate? Maybe your will to do so just isn't strong enough.....

Or maybe it's just not free enough.

reply to post by smithjustinb


We can only think and move. Other than this, we are provided with growing hair, eyes that see and a sun that shines. Once we see this clearly, then the only thing we can say is that it was a gift. If we are in prison to gain freedom, then we are still given a gift of some freedom. Either way, we have control of our thoughts and movement. Any law that restricts either is unlawful. We can only be owned by the one who gave us the two things we possess.

We see hatred and prejudice in this world. We then see people hating in return. This adds more hate. We see people take. Then people take back as the answer. We see people in fear, only adding more fear by running away. The entire world seems to be a contradiction. This is only true if your thoughts and movements are adding to the direction of the problem.

How do we overcome hate? More hate? Two negatives make more negative. Love is the answer.

How do we overcome theft? Take back? The answer is to give in return.

How do we overcome fear? Look down and run away? The answer is to have to courage.

Revelation, the last book of the Bible, tells us the answer. It is a simple word. Overcome. We must overcome the world to gain our freedom, not only in this world, but in the one to come. This is the school before the true kingdom is gained. Overcome this world by clinging to positive with every step. When you find that this is impossible, realize the truth. One person overcame the world for you and shows the way home.

Originally posted by MoosKept240
Interesting.....

Although, I would say "free will" is man made. Only we can define its purposes.
A lot like time, it only exists because we exist.
For me, free will is in the ability to make a decision. It is my will to make a left turn or right turn. No one else's. For those in prison, it was in there will to decide to break the law. There will took them there. IMO

So what took you to here to being human?

Originally posted by satron
It would be like a kid depressed because he couldn't fly around and shoot energy balls like a DBZ character.

hahaha! story of my life. jk. Nah, that's what lucid dreaming is for.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

This is only true if your thoughts and movements are adding to the direction of the problem.

When you find that this is impossible, realize the truth.

edit on 24-11-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Amen brother.

Definition and context.

The main reason why FREE WILL is free, is testified by 'your' being here. Unless, the OP claims some spiritual expertise in this area, he/she cannot continue to definitively maintain that he/she, did NOT choose. The fact that (unless we assume too much) the OP cannot remember thier birth, they could hardly claim a memory of any 'choice' they do not remember making...and most of us would be conflicted given this lack of memory, and could continue to definitively maintain that something was not thier choice...like a prisoner in a cell who forgot the first time they utilised this FREE WILL to offend; an act, perpetrated through the precept of FREE WILL, that instigated the path 'chosen', which eventually led them to be in prison...this is one of the 'end points' possible in a FREE WILL universe.

According to the precept of FREE WILL, you are free to choose whether you believe in FREE WILL, and the 'flavour' of that belief will indeed reflect your choice, brought about through FREE WILL.
In a battle between the imagination and the will, the imagination always wins!
Why limit the FREE WILL debate to levitation? Try stopping aging, or, accelerating it? The choice to be 'incarnted' (a choice brought about through FREE WILL - despite having no memory of it) came with it the consequence of being 'incarnted' in a vehicle more or less beholden to, this physical, material form of experience.

The ability to choose, according to FREE WILL, the concept that there is no FREE WILL...will reflect in the 'chooser' (and indeed, outside the 'chooser) whatever choice, the 'chooser', has chosen. It operates in EXACTLY the same way, regardless of the way you choose to rationalise its existence or non-existence. It encompasses, encloses and includes, both the negative argument and the positive argument. What is left to discuss, is the memory of the original choice, or choices along the way, which place you, according to this FREE WILL, in the particular predicament you 'find' yourself 'in'.

Using levitation as an argument is spurious and puerile. Follow the path backwards, and examine choice...but then, if you don't believe you have FREE WILL...you could not believe you have any choice...and following this train of thought...you could not be responsible for any action you perform...which is the 'pat' defense of criminals pleading insanity...is this where you are?

Akushla
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