The world would be a better place if everybody learned to think like scientists

The world would be a better place if everybody learned to think like scientists. I don't mean they should know more science, although that would be nice too. I mean that everybody should base their beliefs upon evidence, and be highly suspicious of any beliefs that are not based on evidence.

Richard Dawkins speaking to New Scientist magazine in 2009

Came across this little gem just the other day, and feeling a little mischevious I thought I'd take this opportunity to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak. Now if anyone has ever read my posts they will know that evidence is not necessarily a prerequisite for me to believe something. But one thing I do like to see is a bit of logic, which unfortunately the world seems to lack a lot of. 'Common sense isn't common' as they say.

Obviously if we had an evidence based belief system the only beliefs we would have are those of science, which for may may seem a little depressing. Now I myself work in the field of science, however I do like to go a little left field when it comes to my personal beliefs. And there's nothing I enjoy more than a few imaginitive flights of fancy when it comes to pondering the big cosmological questions that continue to plague the metaphysicians and the philosophers among us.

But I want to know what you think. Do you think the world has been hijacked by the misplaced beliefs of religion and many of the airy fairy notions of the New Age movement. Or do you think that that its our ability to use our imagination and follow our hearts that makes being human such a special thing. Or......... do you think something entirely different?

Well, atheism is merely a science based comfort faith, so,really, youd be replacing one religion with another and you'd end up back at square one.

I believe this is absolutely true. In my opinion the largest problem lies in the fact that MANY religious people view science and scientists as being against God. Saying I don't know why this is the case would be a lie, as it probably has something to do with religious individuals' misunderstanding of evolution and what it is.

I have found that some religious people still believe that evolution means we came from monkeys, and not from God. Considering science does not address religion at all, makes it a good rational base for everyone.

Just look at what happens, in all religions, eventually. Wars, killings, and so on and so forth. And every single major religion in the world today is guilty as far as I know, from some point in the past. I cannot stand it when people criticize science, like it wants to replace religion or something. Look at how much better our lives are because of science.

And anyone can keep those things, and STILL believe in their own God. Sounds good to me. Let's think like scientists.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


Belief is not a just a religious thing, belief is believing in anything. Beliefs are assumptions that have not been investigated thoroughly. There are facts, things we can say we know for sure, and there are beliefs which are not facts. What makes something a fact and not a belief??
A belief is held as a fact until it is realized that it is not true.

Scientists are fine as long as they have no intention, nothing to prove. They should only be looking for what is real.

Originally posted by mandroids
Well, atheism is merely a science based comfort faith, so,really, youd be replacing one religion with another and you'd end up back at square one.

That is wrong on so many levels. It is the lack of believing in God(s) or supreme beings. This is nothing to do with religion. You can still believe in God(s) and still not be religious in the same vein.

Problem with cognitive, analytical thought, is that we are dealing with the weak human mind.
I think scientific thought would bring people to agnostic type thought.
We would admit that we don't know who or what a god is due to lack of factual evidence.
I don't see atheism as the result of scientific thinking, since we don't have to see everything we believe to be true.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

I mean that everybody should base their beliefs upon evidence, and be highly suspicious of any beliefs that are not based on evidence.

Where's his evidence that the world would indeed be a better place if everyone thought like him? In fact isn't he saying that assuming everyone thinking and believing the same forced reality-view is a problem? But yes, HIS reality-view is the good one. And even if it doesn't make sense, their is no evidence of benefit, individuals should just believe him.

What many egotistical scientists refuse to accept as true, is that many religion believing followers do fully believe they have irrefutable evidence in which they base their belief. Mainstream science has become another dangerous belief system that threatens open and free individuality.

Believe what you want.. but when your belief is that you need or would like to force people to do, think or be ANYTHING you will find resistance. Naturally and truthfully.

BEWARE the word of the Professional Atheist....

reply to post by 1littlewolf


I think balance is the key - don't throw the left side of the brain and its logical thinking under the bus to be sure. But letting it rule the roost without the contributions of the right is equally misguided. It takes both - operating in concert and balance, for us to achieve our potential.

Bugger that, after witnessing first hand "scientists" performing inhumane & torturous experiments on unconsenting innocent animals so they can test things like paint, petrochemicals, pharma drugs ... I would never want to be like that ... analytical and devoid of empathy ... granted not all are like that but still

Originally posted by mandroids
Well, atheism is merely a science based comfort faith, so,really, youd be replacing one religion with another and you'd end up back at square one.

Then you know NOTHING about atheism.

Skepticism is in short supply, and I dont mean only religious people, but even among atheists or agnostics.

It takes a particularly twisted mind to make belief into a virtue (as religions often do), when in fact belief without reliable evidence is a vice, and naivity.

reply to post by 1littlewolf

But I want to know what you think. Do you think the world has been hijacked by the misplaced beliefs of religion and many of the airy fairy notions of the New Age movement. Or do you think that that its our ability to use our imagination and follow our hearts that makes being human such a special thing. Or......... do you think something entirely different?

Excellent post. First of all, Dawkins is not saying that people should only think like scientists, simply that they should be able to think like scientists. Anyone who has worked in a creative field, whether the arts or the media, knows that scientific thinking is invaluable for achieving artistic goals. Painters need to understand light and shadow and how colors combine. Musicians have their own technical skills to master. Although the inspiration may be mysterious, the expression requires a certain amount of theory and a great deal of experimentation; in other words, a scientific methodology.

People who do not think scientifically are prone to dismiss the methodology and the knowledge it arrives at as "just another belief." Belief is accepting something without empirical evidence; knowledge is the result of analysis and experiment. Religion is based on belief. There are some meditation based religions that put an emphasis on personal experimentation. These practitioners can be said to have a type of "knowledge," although it is of a different type than "Science" produces.

In short, I agree with Dawkins. If everyone were able to think like scientists, there would be much less chicanery in the world, and people would be able to understand why certain things are "facts" and others are "beliefs." Beliefs are not necessarily bad things; they can serve a useful psychological or societal purpose. Scientific thinking can help one distinguish whether a particular belief is useful or harmful.

reply to post by 1littlewolf

The world would be a better place if everybody learned to think like scientists. I don't mean they should know more science, although that would be nice too. I mean that everybody should base their beliefs upon evidence, and be highly suspicious of any beliefs that are not based on evidence.

Richard Dawkins speaking to New Scientist magazine in 2009

This is like saying, "I will only value the ocean by examining the surface and the waves." I realize that Dawkins has moved into the depths of biology, yet misses the message the ocean proclaims. This is the problem with science. They proclaim to know matter apart from consciousness. The truth of the matter is much simpler. We can only know matter if we understand consciousness. Assuming that consciousness did not pre-exist matter is what the Bible calls blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Spirit is consciousness. Leave it out of the equation and blindness occurs, revealing itself as bias and prejudice.

We have evidence aplenty. If states of matter are changed by collapsing the indeterminate wave of infinity, then science, by virtue of collapsing wave function, proves that consciousness pre-exists matter. Matter cannot be moved to a state of purpose apart from the prime mover of the wave or infinity. Consciousness is the prime mover, as demonstrated by all evidence. Matter cannot move to a state of live consciousness. Only consciousness can move matter to life. Where did consciousness come from? A better question.

There is evidence for the inclusion of consciousness into the duality of light. Light is not a particle and wave in duality. It has a triune nature. The patterning nature of physics occurs in threes. Examine the three: Particle, wave and consciousness. This is the Trinity of God. The Father is Light. The Son is Word / Wave / Information (John 1) and the Holy Spirit is consciousness.

Science will not admit consciousness as the essence of particle and wave moving to form and substance. It's a shame really. Where would we be today if we possessed the courage to honor where we have come from? Pride blinds. Evidence is not the problem.

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Admitting the God created the universe with Time, Space, Matter and Energy is not something we can say lacks evidence. What science fears is loss of funding. Those who control funding are afraid of loss of control over those who they steal from. Admitting God admits that stealing is wrong. Bottom line is that power corrupts. What we lack is moral courage, not evidence. Admitting a God means admitting that we are held accountable. It is easier to believe the myth that we are alone and the Gods of this planet. In reality, it was a gift.

Science is all about defining and classification. Unfortunately, for scientists, God cannot be found by conceptualization. Only when the mind is quiet and free from labels and beliefs about observed reality can one find God. You won't find God at CERN. You'll find God in meditation.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Science is all about defining and classification. Unfortunately, for scientists, God cannot be found by conceptualization. Only when the mind is quiet and free from labels and beliefs about observed reality can one find God. You won't find God at CERN. You'll find God in meditation.

Whether or not they can find God at CERN, you won't find an accurate description of physical reality in the Bible. It may hold emotional or even moral truths, but it does not contain scientific truth.

Edit to add: Another shout out to the OP who actually created one of the rare threads that provokes thought rather than ridicule! And thanks to all the participants who continue to post thoughtful, courteous replies!

What is the use of truth? To make the world a better place. For who? The truth shall set 'you' free.
If there is unhappiness and confusion it must be because the 'idea' of life is built on a lie.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Science is all about defining and classification. Unfortunately, for scientists, God cannot be found by conceptualization. Only when the mind is quiet and free from labels and beliefs about observed reality can one find God. You won't find God at CERN. You'll find God in meditation.

Whether or not they can find God at CERN, you won't find an accurate description of physical reality in the Bible. It may hold emotional or even moral truths, but it does not contain scientific truth.

BUT... It is better to experience the truth and not know what to call it than to know what to call the truth and not be able to experience it.

reply to post by smithjustinb

BUT... It is better to experience the truth and not know what to call it than to know what to call the truth and not be able to experience it.

Agreed.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
I believe this is absolutely true. In my opinion the largest problem lies in the fact that MANY religious people view science and scientists as being against God. Saying I don't know why this is the case would be a lie, as it probably has something to do with religious individuals' misunderstanding of evolution and what it is.

I have found that some religious people still believe that evolution means we came from monkeys, and not from God. Considering science does not address religion at all, makes it a good rational base for everyone.

Just look at what happens, in all religions, eventually. Wars, killings, and so on and so forth. And every single major religion in the world today is guilty as far as I know, from some point in the past. I cannot stand it when people criticize science, like it wants to replace religion or something. Look at how much better our lives are because of science.

And anyone can keep those things, and STILL believe in their own God. Sounds good to me. Let's think like scientists.

I'm fairly certain that many of the scientist through out history were of a religious origin. Should I list them, or is this already common knowledge? As far as Religion and Science, I'd have to say that, mainly, the only science behind the bulk of religion is philosophy and sociology. Which then gives way to human interactions, such as war, killing and so forth.

Back to the topic.
I strongly agree with the notion that all people should think like scientists. I have even, multiple times, posted the link to Scientific Method.

Scientific Method
en.wikipedia.org...

Another GREAT thing to research, is the works of
Francis Bacon(1st Viscount St Albans)
en.wikipedia.org...
Pragmatic model or the Pragmatic theory of truth
en.wikipedia.org...

The best, in my opinion, being.. Aristotle's scientific method
which can be found in here...
en.wikipedia.org...

Deny that Ignorance, and bring Yang to the Yin.