You better watch what your bumper sticker says, look what happened to this kid

So you think you have the right to free speech and the right to say what you want maybe you did but that was beore the patriot act.


www.sltrib.com...
Derek Kjar is not the president's biggest fan.
But the 19-year-old Salt Lake County man says he does not intend to harm President Bush with anything more than a vote for John Kerry come November.
Just to be sure, though, agents from the Secret Service recently paid Kjar a visit, telling him that his neighbors had alerted them to a potentially threatening bumper sticker on his car.
The sticker, which can be found on a number of Web sites, features a black-and-white likeness of Bush, a crown tilted slightly on his head. Under the image are the words "KING GEORGE - OFF WITH HIS HEAD."
Glen Passey, agent in charge of the Secret Service's Salt Lake City office, would not confirm that agents visited Kjar.
But Passey said his office investigates all threats against the president.
"Oh, please," said David Hudson, a research attorney who works for the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University. "It's political hyperbole. However distasteful you might think it is, it's pure political speech."
Hudson said the message would never qualify as a true threat under the law.
But Kjar didn't know that. He said the agent he contacted in response to a cryptic message left on his voice mail would not even say why he wanted to talk - only that he wanted to meet Thursday morning.
That's when Kjar began to cry. "I didn't know what the hell was going on," he said. "It made me so nervous."
Kjar said two agents visited him at his job at a dry cleaning service, where they asked him about whether he had any ties to terrorist groups or enjoyed reading historical accounts of assassinations. They also asked Kjar about his friends and family, and even wanted to know how he
paid his monthly rent.
The agents finally left after Kjar handed over the sticker.
Kjar said he feared the agents were going to "take me away."
Now, he feels as if they did.
"I kind of feel trapped, like I'm not allowed to express my opinions. I felt like my freedom of speech was shot to hell right there."
Dani Eyer, director of the Utah chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said Kjar's experience exemplifies the "chilling effect" government actions can have on free speech.
She cited U.S. Supreme Court rulings that protect exaggerated political expression.
In 1969, for instance, the high court overturned the conviction of a man who said he wanted to place President Johnson in the sights of his rifle if he were ever to be drafted.
"While direct advocacy of immediate violence can possibly be a crime, context is everything," Eyer said. "Only someone who has never read the Declaration of Independence and never heard of King Louis XVI could have mistaken revolutionary war rhetoric for a criminal threat."
[email protected]

[edit on 5-9-2004 by goose]

[edit on 5-9-2004 by goose]

Originally posted by goose
The sticker, which can be found on a number of Web sites, features a black-and-white likeness of Bush, a crown tilted slightly on his head. Under the image are the words "KING GEORGE - OFF WITH HIS HEAD."

All threats against the President are taken seriously regarless of how oblique. This law has been on the books for a long time. Everyone should be cautious about their criticisms of the President to make sure that they do not cross the line.

All it takes is some common sense.

cmon, he cried? well see what those mean secret service agents do! lol

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
All threats against the President are taken seriously regarless of how oblique.

I'm tired of this state of being poltically correct, its bs. "Oh, don't leave any stone unturned" Leave a stone unturned because we have limited resources!

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Everyone should be cautious about their criticisms of the President to make sure that they do not cross the line.

Why should we be cautious of our criticism?? Last time I checked, people who fear crossing a line in criticizing the gov't live in totalitarian states.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
All it takes is some common sense.

Yeah, just hope being politcally correct doesnt supersede having common sense



[edit on 9/5/2004 by s13guy]

All it takes is some common sense.

yes. common sense to bow to the czar. don't make waves or u wil be sent to the gulag. LOL

Grady, are u a government employee sent to patrol bulletin boards?

Why should we be cautious of our criticism?? Last time I checked, people who fear crossing a line in criticizing the gov't live in totalitarian states.

maybe you 're living in one.

[edit on 5-9-2004 by iceTman]

Originally posted by goose
So you think you have the right to free speech and the right to say what you want maybe you did but that was beore the patriot act.

Please review this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

18 USC Sec. 871
Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

(a)

Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(b)

The terms ''President-elect'' and ''Vice President-elect'' as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The phrase ''other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President'' as used in this section shall mean the person next in the order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 19 and 20

Threatening the President of the U.S.

Please note that all examples given in the above link occurred "beore" the Patriot Act, and the first two were from the Clinton era.

Originally posted by iceTman
Grady, are u a government employee sent to patrol bulletin boards?

Probably not, he's just not stupid....you can violate many laws but the government is very serious when it comes to someone threatening the life of the president. It has nothing to do with tyranny or any of that other crap that most are likely to say it has to do with the indisputable fact that 9 out of 43 presidents have either been assassinated or narrowly missed that fate. So if someone reports you as having threatened the president one thing you can count on for sure is a visit.


[edit on 5-9-2004 by keholmes]

I don't why some of you guys are pretending we always treated kids like this. We didn't.

Remember the 80's and Reagen bashing? Bush has it GOOD compared to him.

There was a littel thing called the punk movement where "seditious" groups would gather to scream about killing Reagen while venting anger in mosh pits. Is "Jodie Foster's Army" threatening enough for ya? Or leathers depicting Reagen's face with a bullet hole on the back?

Come on. That bumper sticker is nothing and you know it. All that's changed is this hyper intense crack down on DISSENT.

You may say since 9/11. I say since Bush. Either way it's BS.

Originally posted by RANT
Come on. That bumper sticker is nothing and you know it. All that's changed is this hyper intense crack down on DISSENT.

You may say since 9/11. I say since Bush. Either way it's BS.

I never said that he had it hard.... Either way you don�t know how this was reported to the authorities once reported they kind of have to investigate. Anyhow the point was that this has nothing to do with the patriot act�..even in the 80�s, if you cared to research some innocent morons got investigated too.

Now that's true Keholmes. The problem in this case or any like them isn't the Patriot Act. It's the environment that promotes tattletales.

If they started going back to the "tipsters" after each of these goose chases and fined them say $1000, people would think twice about reporting bumper stickers as terrorists.

It's no different than a fake bomb threat IMO. Like they old guy in F911 that called Bush an A-Hole to his "friends" and got a visit from the FBI.

Tax dollars at work. His "friends" should be fined, not encouraged.

I'm not amused with these "do your part, be on the lookout" speeches, that may well be warranted to New Yorkers but serve no purpose in Tappahannock but fear mongering.

RANT

I completely agree with you. There should be a "you're a big-phat tattle-tale" fine.

Great idea!

hey guys....it was a bumper sticker, witch-hunt fever has taken hold, great republican neighbours that kid had.

(JUST STATING THE OBVIOUS)


[edit on 5-9-2004 by electric squid carpet]

RANT
Like is said, how it got reported is not involved in the report, could have a very innocent explanation (except here)�.however they should probably fine the kid for violating the public sensibilities with gross stupidity�.you want to disagree, dissent all the rest fine�.but cut of his head. And then cry when they show up. Too funny.

Just an aside I�m sure the few million from New York are sorry that the 8000 have to suffer through a few speeches.

just like his idol kerry the false god and lover of abortions

Originally posted by keholmes
RANT
Like is said, how it got reported is not involved in the report, could have a very innocent explanation (except here)….however they should probably fine the kid for violating the public sensibilities with gross stupidity….you want to disagree, dissent all the rest fine….but cut of his head. And then cry when they show up. Too funny.

Just an aside I’m sure the few million from New York are sorry that the 8000 have to suffer through a few speeches.

The "King George - Cut of his head" is just a note towards british history where in the times of the 5 King George's, the common way to toss a british royalty of the throne was by decapitating them.

Mainly because death was the only sure way to remove them from power. Since most of them had a rather strong entourage and very loyal guard surrounding them.(Pritty much same as Bush)

The lack of knowledge of history makes these neighbours read this literaly.

I think thats why the feds asked this kid the question "Do you read about the history of famous historical Assasinations"

He propably should have said yes to that. Since it would show that he sees it as funny because of his knowledge of history, where this slogan and sticker has its origin.

That is a sick thing to say.

We as Americans should NEVER be afraid to criticize the president.

THAT IS WHAT SEPARATES US FROM DICTATORS LIKE HITLER AND STALIN.

If you believe what you said Grady YOU are NO PATRIOT.

THEY CALL IT FREE SPEECH. NOT CAUTIOUS SPEECH.

WORDS ARE NOT GUNS AND BULLETS.
.

Originally posted by slank
That is a sick thing to say.

We as Americans should NEVER be afraid to criticize the president.

THAT IS WHAT SEPARATES US FROM DICTATORS LIKE HITLER AND STALIN.

If you believe what you said Grady YOU are NO PATRIOT.

THEY CALL IT FREE SPEECH. NOT CAUTIOUS SPEECH.

WORDS ARE NOT GUNS AND BULLETS.
.

I think according to the founding fathers, critisizing the Goverment and president is exactly what a good patriotic citizen is supposed to do to be sure the United States stay the land of the free.

They even said a revolution once in a while is 100% needed to weed out the bugs and insects that rooted themselves into the US goverment and power to keep the US the way it should be.

Food for thought.


My wife and I recently had a Vietnamese student stay with for his senior year in High School. One evening we were driving past a crowded intersection and noticed a man holding a large sign which said, " Bush, Incompetant and Dangerous". Our student was appalled and asked how long it takes the police to show up to get rid of the man and the sign.

Get it folks? Vietnam? Totaltarian regime? Does that scare anyone when we begin behaving like the Vietnamese government?

I can't wait until the Texas Taliban shows up to question me about my "WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB" bumper sticker.

"When faced with an Eddie Haskell the only thing to do is to punch him in the nose. "

Or in our case vote the bully out of office. Or march on DC with brickbats.





[edit on 5-9-2004 by spud602]

[edit on 5-9-2004 by spud602]

All threats against the president are taken seriously. Unless of course you are Jesse Helms.

"Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He'd better have a bodyguard."

My favorite part is the "Mr." Too bad the old coot isn't alive today. At least we have Zell Miller to liven things up. Sure, other people lie too, but so few challenge people to duels!

Fictional:

So if I don't like my neighbour who lives alone, drinks a bit too much and isn't comfortable at all, is it easy to get him into trouble?

I will ask my other neighbour who is a good friend of mine and we will both report to the Secret Service that our bad neighbour said something like...ahm..quickly imagined: "I will take my sniper rifle and shoot this danger for our country back to Texas!!!!".

He is in trouble then? No? We will them the SS that he has the rifle ready at home and waits for a proper moment to do it.

------------------------------


According to US law they would need to search his home. Jesus, he will be in trouble in no time just because 2 persons who just don't like him, told the SS some stories about him.
What a great law!


Not to offense but it's a hype at the moment to draw threats worse than they are. A bumper sticker is no threat, it's nothing. Nothing as it was the british kid saying that his bomb is in the other suitcase. Did the 9/11 terrorists arouse attention somehow like that? No.
As said, BS. Rant is right.

Hudson said the message would never qualify as a true threat under the law.

I'd agree. The fact that it says KING (not President) George, should get him off the hook, unless the depiction of Bush is accurate. If THAT is the case, then he just might be screwed....