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the media cannot understand organic leaderless democracy

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posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 





i had to look that up are you trying to make me feel stupid?


In my experience, stupid people do not bother to look up words in a dictionary. This does not, by any stretch of the imagination, make you erudite.

The point you keep missing over and over...sport...is that democracy is just another form of governance and as long as so many are willing to couch rights into boxes like citizenship (I get that you owned up to that usage and it appears as if you thought it inappropriate to use as you did) or as inalienable rights, or civil rights, then we are going to have out of control government trampling all over those rights. That is the very real and serious problem across the world, that so few are willing to actually defend unalienable rights and would instead rather ramble on and on and on about democracy.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by XPLodER
 


Can you not distinguish between unalienable rights and civil rights? Do you have no idea what it means to possess unalienable rights? No individual anywhere needs any goddamned consensus to enjoy unalienable rights. No goddamned democracy is needed, no goddamned republic is needed as the rights exist with or without government.

The more you insist on blathering on and on and on about democracy the more sure I am you are a threat to freedom. Not a threat to government, you're not. Just a threat to freedom.




i will adress directly un alienable rights,
some people say,
god given rights,
some say unaliable

some call it human rights,

and i understand your position that NO laws legislations or bylaws can take that away from you.

i can and do understand what you are saying


make no laws that takes away the unaliable rights
and i hold them to be self evedent.

i do not use the language of god given,
or human rights
i too use unalialbe

the rights are inherant in every human being first and formost
and no law may change that in my opinion

i am not a threat to govenment or freedom

i want people to discuss what is happing in the world and care enough about the other people around them to acually try to do something legal positive and inspiring

it is my god given right and will always be,
to try to make earth a better place,
it is my duty as a human

xploder



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by XPLodER
 





i had to look that up are you trying to make me feel stupid?



In my experience, stupid people do not bother to look up words in a dictionary. This does not, by any stretch of the imagination, make you erudite.


well i had to look up erudite as well lol

so i guess my learning not finished yet


The point you keep missing over and over...sport...is that democracy is just another form of governance and as long as so many are willing to couch rights into boxes like citizenship (I get that you owned up to that usage and it appears as if you thought it inappropriate to use as you did) or as inalienable rights, or civil rights, then we are going to have out of control government trampling all over those rights. That is the very real and serious problem across the world, that so few are willing to actually defend unalienable rights and would instead rather ramble on and on and on about democracy.


im going to pretend sport is a term of indeerment


i wish people would "exercise" their unaliable rights,
i would love to see people use the language that instills these rights,
my god given rights ect

i want people to get together and discuss how to protect their and the comunities unaliable rights.

when people get togther in support of these unaliable rights and moral codes
and discuss how to make a stronger country through unity,

express the ideas of freedom and what it means to live in a republic.

while in a public place in a comunity of people who are all equal to express share and remember these rights and that EVERYBODY has them and all are equal in doing so.

when everyone is equal and all are working for the comunity then "democracy" only applies to how people interact withoin that comunity

everyone with equal unalialbe rights equally aloowed to speak or help or eat or just "be" in an equal footing with everyone else

i wounder if me using democracy in this new definition is aceptable,
but the word seamed to sum up the co-operation of a society to produce "equalness" in the social setting

xploder





posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 





i want people to discuss what is happing in the world and care enough about the other people around them to acually try to do something legal positive and inspiring


All people need to do is act lawfully and not acquiesce to any acts of legislation that would declare their lawful actions "illegal". This takes courage and perseverance, and it has to be done on an individual basis. This doesn't mean you shouldn't peaceably assemble, but to be sure, many people like myself would like to know exactly what this peaceful assembly wants and what they intend to do themselves.

It is next to impossible to get a straight answer from anyone claiming any allegiance to this OWS movement precisely because there is no consensus that would answer those questions. The OWS movement seems to concerned with lecturing people about what a consensus is to actually arrive at one themselves.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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Forgive the point by point responses but really, in this format such is needed.


Originally posted by XPLodER
the media are so infatuated with what there idea of demacracy should be the miss what organic democracy means,

i watched RT Today and only one of the comentators could understand a key point to the OWS protest,
the democracy we are told is the only democracy is one where corperations tell the leaders what they want in the bills that govern us.

organic leaderless democracy is where the acual people decide what they want to see in the bills before congress.


Can you please start of by explaining what you mean by a "social democracy" and that of a "governmental democracy"? I would also like to understand your stance on what form of government is currently employed within the United States. I ask these in attempts to find the common ground here to discuss your ideas.


the fact that all people must be free to speek and a true consensus must be achived shows the difference between the
corperate driven legislation,
and the people driven legislation.


This is why there are people here that are staunch in their defense of the First Amendment and the Right, as a human being, to speak freely. It seems your real irk is that of the collusion (and rightly so!) between select corporations and Government. Am I right?


there is no mecanism for the people to drive these bills anymore and there is a lack of debate with the majority of people.

OWS allows all people to give the ideas to others to generate bills WE want passed.


How is there no mechanism for what you claim? Your ability to redress the Government is displayed clearly by the OWS movement. But your speak of the "majority" is telling to your overall stance as to what you want; a Direct Democracy. I give you this for educational purposes, can you find a Direct Democracy on a country level that has been successful? Most employ a limited form of such (as we do here as intended -- at the lowest forms of Government and society.)


only when people have the same ability to create bills and have them passed will there be true democracy


Ah! But you do have the ability to create the bills. Did you not know this or learn this? Only the passage of such bills is confined to the halls of Congress, but the presentation or formation is open to all; farmer, president or "illegal" alien, all have the ability to redress their representative to present the bill.

You clamor on about your desire for a "social" democratic movement -- when such is already in place. But laziness and completely ignorance of the system of governance has led us to this path in which we feel we are powerless and nothing.
edit on 23-11-2011 by ownbestenemy because: Fixed a quote issue.

edit on 23-11-2011 by ownbestenemy because: And fixed a badly spelled word.

edit on 23-11-2011 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 





i want people to get together and discuss how to protect their and the comunities unaliable rights.


Communities do not have any unalienable rights. The moment a community gains rights these rights were transferred to that community by the people who make up that community. At best, communities have civil rights that can be taken away, and such a protocol is necessary to ensure protection of individual rights.




i want people to get together and discuss how to protect their and the comunities unaliable rights.


Any word that ends with -ocracy should be reviled by all freedom loving people. If we cannot evolve to self governed individuals then it is likely we will not evolve any further than we have.

I get that you do understand the importance of unalienable rights, and I am more than happy to retract my earlier statement that I thought you were a threat to freedom. I suppose defending freedom can make one cranky.

However, I would hope you continue to use the dictionary and clear any words not understood, and keep reading the classics so you can have a fuller appreciation of how to influence and inspire people in the way you clearly aspire to do. It takes work. Hard work, to educate yourself and to learn how to communicate effectively and these tools are imperative if you genuinely want to make a difference.

That said, your gee whiz gosh golly wonder at actually affecting positive change and inspiring others to do the same is infectious and I would hate to see any hard work you do put into educating yourself further destroy that enthusiasm. Work hard, have fun, and live free.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


would you be for or against removing corperate person hood?
one thing of note is the bill removing iminity from insider trading for congress
would you support that?

xploder



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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i suggested bills written by people for the people to take to congress and show them what THE PEOPLE want to see in bills and ligislation, NOT pass it themselves, pass to legislators the things THEY want to see made into bills and passed into law, at the moment the only ones building ligislation are the corps
reply to post by XPLodER
 


You mean like write these bills they want and then have a representative bring this to washington?

Novel Idea..........

Oh wait..........dont we already have those? arent those called "Representatives"

You mean , have get togethers where people discuss issues and then offer up solutions........? Awesome!

Wait, dont we have Town Halls?

sorry How bout OWS utilize the avenues we already have to do so..........my bet is, probably because they are ignorant of how to do so

Also wouldnt that ALSO mean youd have to have people in charge of that, because it could and would be abused......?

Wouldnt that go against the whole "OWS doesnt have a leader"

Everything you are talking about is already in place .........Im now convinced OWS has no clue of how government works on any level........


OWS is either totally ignorant of how government works, or they just want us to abandon the current system of corruption for their OWN brand of corruption......................or both........

Again no solutions, we already have all the same systems in place.........

edit on 23-11-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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Can you please start of by explaining what you mean by a "social democracy" and that of a "governmental democracy"? I would also like to understand your stance on what form of government is currently employed within the United States. I ask these in attempts to find the common ground here to discuss your ideas.


"outside" of govenment, when people of a society live and work and eat together where all are equal in that society and work togehter for the benifit of all people within that comunity the decitions that effect the comunity are put to a debate and a consensus vote (only for the society that lives together) on there wishes.
when the people of a open comunity solicite the opinion and vote on an equal basis within that comunity on issiues that effect that comunity.

govenment by democray,
a govenment that functions on the precept that a majority opinion of elected officials is required to pass laws on the behalf of all the people the govenment represents

republic
america is a republic

A republic is a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, have supreme control over the government and where offices of state are elected or chosen by elected people.[1][2] In modern times, a common simplified definition of a republic is a government where the head of state is not a monarch.[3][4] The word republic is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair", and often used to describe a state using this form of government.


wiki




This is why there are people here that staunch in their defense of the First Amendment and the Right, as a human being, to speak freely. It seems your real irk is that of the collusion (and rightly so!) between select corporations and Government. Am I right?

"yes" and i beleive it forms a barrior for "average" people to get heard



How is there no mechanism for what you claim? Your ability to redress the Government is displayed clearly by the OWS movement. But your speak of the "majority" is telling to your overall stance as to what you want; a Direct Democracy. I give you this for educational purposes, can you find a Direct Democracy on a country level that has been successful? Most employ a limited form of such (as we do here as intended -- at the lowest forms of Government and society.)


untill recently my country NEW ZEALAND practiced direct democracy called
first passed the post we are a democracy still
we are now using MMP or mixed member proportional



Ah! But you do have the ability to create the bills. Did you not know this or learn this? Only the passage of such bills is confined to the halls of Congress, but the presentation or formation is open to all; farmer, president or "illegal" alien, all have the ability to redress their representative to present the bill.


well i love to hear that

thank you

i do think presenting to a well conected politician that supports the effort will be far more fruitful,
but it great to know that "the people" can deliver bills for debate



You clamor on about your desire for a "social" democratic movement -- when such is already in place. But laziness and completely ignorance of the system of governance has led us to this path in which we feel we are powerless and nothing.
edit on 23-11-2011 by ownbestenemy because: Fixed a quote issue.

edit on 23-11-2011 by ownbestenemy because: And fixed a badly spelled word.


well you must admit there has been alot more political debate raging and everyone is comunicating


this is great for freedom and rights
it reminds us of what we could be

xploder



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


I think the central core of OWS knows how government works; but the followers that amass see it as an idea to grasp and take hold of without actually thinking. The overtones of the overall movement are "I don't like people with money" -- so naturally they take aim at the the moneymakers. When sadly, there is no Occupy movement in front of the halls of Congress or the White House demanding redress.

That is all I have to know to understand the overall movement. It isn't about change in practice; it is about change in the leadership of the Kingdom to be able to utilize the treasury to how they see fit. To utilize the arm of Government that allows them to dictate and direct what is and what is not acceptable.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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You mean like write these bills they want and then have a representative bring this to washington?


no a simple fedex will do



Novel Idea..........
gota work with whats there


Oh wait..........dont we already have those? arent those called "Representatives"


they are also to busy with lobyests and insider trading to listen most of the time (some are geniune)


You mean , have get togethers where people discuss issues and then offer up solutions........? Awesome!

Wait, dont we have Town Halls?


im sorry i cant make out what your point is are you saying that town halls are available to Occupy for over night use? please elaborate?


sorry How bout OWS utilize the avenues we already have to do so..........my bet is, probably because they are ignorant of how to do so


lol haters guna hate but i will talk to some OWS and pass on your sugestion
thanks


Also wouldnt that ALSO mean youd have to have people in charge of that, because it could and would be abused......?

Wouldnt that go against the whole "OWS doesnt have a leader"


your definition of leaders includes FEDEX?


Everything you are talking about is already in place .........Im now convinced OWS has no clue of how government works on any level........


as already stated i am not speeking on behalf of OWS, Occupy or annonomous
i am an individual speaking as such

so how do you draw any conclusion on OWS from my personal statements?
ignorence much?
are you intntially trying to twist the conversation?



OWS is either totally ignorant of how government works, or they just want us to abandon the current system of corruption for their OWN brand of corruption......................or both........

Again no solutions, we already have all the same systems in place.........


well you are a negitive one arnt you


i think things will get better, even for you

piece and light to you my friend

xploder


edit on 23-11-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


I think the central core of OWS knows how government works; but the followers that amass see it as an idea to grasp and take hold of without actually thinking. The overtones of the overall movement are "I don't like people with money" -- so naturally they take aim at the the moneymakers. When sadly, there is no Occupy movement in front of the halls of Congress or the White House demanding redress.


wait untill the bills are written and handed to congress,
then you will see people on the steps of govenment



That is all I have to know to understand the overall movement.

you are very quick to judge (all in good time)


It isn't about change in practice; it is about change in the leadership of the Kingdom to be able to utilize the treasury to how they see fit. To utilize the arm of Government that allows them to dictate and direct what is and what is not acceptable.



acually at this stage it is about education of the issues and orginizing people to be proactive in the political arena

a well educated motivated population is the best defender of freedom i know

xploder



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


I am unsure of what organic leaderless democracy is also...but I would remind everyone this country was founded as a constitutional republic...I am unsure of where the whole idea we were formed as a democracy crept in...



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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This move toward direct democracy is just the Soros Socialism machine running in the background, as if by just hammering the message with the constant hammering away by OWS supporters, suddenly 310 million people are going to accept changing our Constitution from a Republic to Democratic Socialist State.
It is a huge mistake to think that a direct democracy is going to make things better. We already have representative govt, where the public elects representatives who then go to work for us. If they are not representing us, it's because we were lulled to sleep thinking other people know how to do it better. But some kind of direct democracy voting on legislation just means now we are going to have mobs of people who want stuff but they won't have any knowledge of how to write legislation. We already have more legislation than we know what to do with. Now you want mobs of people writing and rewriting more legislation so that they can get stuff from the supposed 1 %.
This is just nuts people.


Anyway OWS is really a minority. They are people who want stuff from govt. That is the message I've heard over and over again. Just look at this girl who claims the police killed her unborn child with pepper spray. She wants to sue the police for 25 million bucks with no proof. If these are the kind of people who want to run the country from direct democracy, thanks but NO THANKS!
edit on 23-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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The media chooses not to understand it.

The concept is not hard to understand.

But people do like their pigeon holes.
edit on 23-11-2011 by schitzengigz because: ?



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 





no a simple fedex will do


You are going to fedex possible laws that could effect the whole nation? well that sounds brilliant now doesnt it? Sounds like I know where ill need to be working to get my hands on these little numbers...




they are also to busy with lobyests and insider trading to listen most of the time (some are geniune)


Ahh , so instead of fixing the system we will just circumvent whats already there.......ok yes, lets make it more complicated .........that sounds like a great answer...........yes lets not use whats in place......

I do that with my cars, when my fan belt breaks i just go buy a new SUV.......




im sorry i cant make out what your point is are you saying that town halls are available to Occupy for over night use? please elaborate?


No im saying we already have forums to do what you were asking to do..........they have been in place for a long time, its just that most OWS protesters arent aware of how they work or that they are there....

Then they come up with these ideas and think they are genuine.........

And no..........OWS doesnt need ANOTHER place to camp out at over night.......its not a slumber party.....




lol haters guna hate but i will talk to some OWS and pass on your sugestion thanks


Using cute Memes doesnt take away the fact that people involved with movement are ignorant of the system and how it works, and its been proven , even you have shown that........




your definition of leaders includes FEDEX?


Again, more proof of lack of foresight and over simplifying/ignorance of the importance of such undertakings.....

Im not trying to be negative, im being a realist.............

As for how things are going for me? Actually things are pretty great i cant complain.......
It just disturbs me that so many people have such a limited knowledge of how things really work, yet want to tear it down and make their own.........

How does anyone have confidence in a group of people to REBUILD something when they arent even aware of how the current one operates?



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by jeichelberg
reply to post by XPLodER
 


I am unsure of what organic leaderless democracy is also...but I would remind everyone this country was founded as a constitutional republic...I am unsure of where the whole idea we were formed as a democracy crept in...


in the sence of a comunity like occupy as an example, (to live as a society and comunity with equal rights and equal voice within said comunity)
not in the govenment sence of the word (to govern under democracy)

everyone is the leader and all can lead
it is a mindset not a form of proportion represntation

we are all equal in voice and right and all work together for the betterment of all

xploder

xploder



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


Just who is going to be writing these bills? Is there something you know I don't? You got a secret lawyer who is gonna do all this? ACLU ? Soros operatives ? What? Or you're going to let that guy doing the mic check who just said to destroy Capitalism write these bills? Or how about that guy who wanted to set buildings on fire??? Hmmm?
edit on 23-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


You keep bringing Soros up.

What does he have to do with this?


Soros agents? What are they? Sounds sort of looney



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by schitzengigz
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


You keep bringing Soros up.

What does he have to do with this?


Soros agents? What are they? Sounds sort of looney


Everything. He is the puppet master behind Obama, and Rothschilds are behind Soros. Oh wait, you didn't know about the Illuminati bloodlines yet I guess. Isn't that standard fare here?
Just so you know, Soros also funded Hillary and McCain campaigns in 08, so it's not like he doesn't have his finger in every pie. He goes to Bilderberg meets where he can hobknob with Romney, Queen Beatrix, Prince whatever, Kissinger, Blair, and whoever else goes to those things.

But see you are already labeling me looney the minute I bring up Soros. And yet he pledged to get Bush out of office even before 04. He funds MoveOn.org and Media Matters, to name just a few.
edit on 23-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


commonamericanjournal.com...

have loads of fun with this one
www.muckety.com...
edit on 23-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



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