the media cannot understand organic leaderless democracy

the media are so infatuated with what there idea of demacracy should be the miss what organic democracy means,

i watched RT Today and only one of the comentators could understand a key point to the OWS protest,
the democracy we are told is the only democracy is one where corperations tell the leaders what they want in the bills that govern us.

organic leaderless democracy is where the acual people decide what they want to see in the bills before congress.

the fact that all people must be free to speek and a true consensus must be achived shows the difference between the
corperate driven legislation,
and the people driven legislation.

there is no mecanism for the people to drive these bills anymore and there is a lack of debate with the majority of people.

OWS allows all people to give the ideas to others to generate bills WE want passed.

wall street buys bills with insider trades,
OWS seeks to inspire a true democractic movement that includes bills from THE PEOPLE
not from the corperations.

the lack of prosicutions of wall street show clearly that the politicians are only intersted in bills from the corps,

only when people have the same ability to create bills and have them passed will there be true democracy

i would say the message is,

when the legislation is written by the people for the people,
not for the corps by the corps we will acually be free

to remove insider trading that allows the corps to buy the politicians,

enforce conflicts of interest

basically
represent the people who elected you not the corps that bought you

OWS will not go away untill the simple democracy is of the people for the people,

not of the corps for the corps

xploder

The media doesnt understand anything because its only a microphone

The Occupy movement has it right as far as 'leadership'. And the SNAKES are hating it tremendously!!

Who is the "leader" for the Occupy movement?? ANSWER: WE ARE THE LEADERS!!!!!!!

We The [color=cyan]People!!!!!!

We The People who have the interests of the PEOPLE and COUNTRY in mind. Its the perfect leadership plan.

Theres no "leader" for the SNAKES to try and PAY-OFF AND BRIBE here with the Occupy movement!! The SNAKES HATE not having that type of power. HAHAHA devilish SNAKES!!!!!!

Wonderful!!!!!!

Brilliant!!!!!!

Perfect!!!!!

oh the media understand.

they have selective amnesia and money in their back pocket that says the story is like this, how I say it and why, instead of the truth

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
The Occupy movement has it right as far as 'leadership'. And the SNAKES are hating it tremendously!!

[color=gold]Who is the "leader" for the Occupy movement?? ANSWER: WE ARE THE LEADERS!!!!!!! We The [color=cyan]People!!!!!!

Perfect plan.

edit on 23-11-2011 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

I would like to see national votes on all major bills, like presidential elections.

I just dont think that congress (both houses) accurately represents the rest (hell the 99%) of the country.

*This is not my endorsement for the OWS movement

reply to post by XPLodER


What scares me more than WWIII, an asteroid impact, a supervolcano or anything else is the idea of this movement. There needs to be structure in any leadership. There need to be laws, rules, control without it there is only anarchy.

reply to post by XPLodER

organic leaderless democracy is where the acual people decide what they want to see in the bills before congress.

Yep. There's the real problem. It is not as if this "organic leaderless democracy" has any concern at all that there are more than 600,000 acts of legislation on the books as it stands, they want more bills passed! Maybe with this leaderless democracy we can hit the million mark with bills passed. Yippie!

I haven't heard one single OWS supporter even discuss the idea that bills can be repealed.

The media understand it, they just want to use their declining influence to make it seem as nonsensical as possible to as many people as possible because it's a threat to the ruling elite that the media exist to serve.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by XPLodER

 

organic leaderless democracy is where the acual people decide what they want to see in the bills before congress.

Yep. There's the real problem. It is not as if this "organic leaderless democracy" has any concern at all that there are more than 600,000 acts of legislation on the books as it stands, they want more bills passed! Maybe with this leaderless democracy we can hit the million mark with bills passed. Yippie!

I haven't heard one single OWS supporter even discuss the idea that bills can be repealed.

first you must give the ability to discuss what is wanted,
then you can discuss what is required to achive the aims of the people
then you rally togther for a cause.....passing people driven legislation,

only at the point were the first bill is passed will the people feel empowered to try more things,

this leads what is not wanted,
then you can discuss what is required to achive the aims of the people
then you can rally together for the cause ....removing corperate driven legislation,

start with the battle you can win easily,

every one knows that wall street should be prosicuted, they feel it they agree....
so start by getting insider trading out of congress,
and then push for prosicutions of wall street
while at the same time repealing the corperate laws that serve the insider trading "payment" for corperate laws

first the people must stand in agreement "something is wrong"
then people must stand in agreement that "insider trading is wrong"
then people must decide through organic "democrcy" the bill should limit insider trading,

when that first organic people driven ligislation is passed,
all people will see their voice is now democracy
they will be impowered to do more for
THE GOOD OF THE NATION
and all people that make that nation great

this is a natural process and when people stand together in a pieceful organic democratic society of the people for the people and decide whats wrong.

they also decide what it can be like if things were REALLY democratic.

this is NOT anarchy
this is homogenius organic leaderless democracy

and this was how it was done in your country in the past.

comunities working together and measuring moral value from consensus

not being split into small groups and set upon each other for crumbs

xploder

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
The Occupy movement has it right as far as 'leadership'. And the SNAKES are hating it tremendously!!

[color=gold]Who is the "leader" for the Occupy movement?? ANSWER: WE ARE THE LEADERS!!!!!!!

We The [color=cyan]People!!!!!!

We The People who have the interests of the PEOPLE and COUNTRY in mind. Its the perfect leadership plan.

edit on 23-11-2011 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

they at first riddicule an idea.......

they then violently oppose the bearers of the ideas.....

then they stand with the belivers of a movement helping imput ideas.......

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


What the hell are you saying? Are you suggesting that first these leaderless protestors have to have the opportunity to pass legislation before they even consider repealing legislation? Further, are you suggesting that OWS is hell bent on circumventing the Constitution for the United States of America and just going to simply begin authorizing themselves as some sort of new fiat legislature?

It is pretty damn clear you haven't thought this out.

You foolishly presume that most American's want this vaunted democracy you keep yammering on about, but I assure you, sport, there are plenty of American's who are adamant that this nation remain the republic it was created as, to make sure that nonsensical uneducated poorly thought out advocates of democracy do not use this advocacy to trample all over the rights of individuals.

The OWS can take their democracy and shove it where the sun don't shine! Out of democracy rises tyranny, and the OWS has gone out of their way to illustrate just how enamored they are with tyranny and how terribly much they desire a shot at being tyrants themselves.

What the hell are you saying? Are you suggesting that first these leaderless protestors have to have the opportunity to pass legislation before they even consider repealing legislation?

i do not speak for any movement, ows occupy annonomous (i speek as an idividual)
i speek as an act of democracy not in the govenment form of democracy, in the social sence.
that people can get togehther and discuss what they want, as a side effect this can bring about real changes for the public interest.

Further, are you suggesting that OWS is hell bent on circumventing the Constitution for the United States of America and just going to simply begin authorizing themselves as some sort of new fiat legislature?

that is perposterous,
i suggested bills written by people for the people to take to congress and show them what THE PEOPLE want to see in bills and ligislation, NOT pass it themselves, pass to legislators the things THEY want to see made into bills and passed into law, at the moment the only ones building ligislation are the corps

It is pretty damn clear you haven't thought this out.

i am happey to discuss this in depth as i have "thought this out" but by no means claim this IS the answer,
i do however think it has merit.

You foolishly presume that most American's want this vaunted democracy you keep yammering on about, but I assure you, sport, there are plenty of American's who are adamant that this nation remain the republic it was created as, to make sure that nonsensical uneducated poorly thought out advocates of democracy do not use this advocacy to trample all over the rights of individuals.

i need to clarify the difference of an organic leaderless democracy (social as in comunity as in all people)
in this context all people (as citizens in a public place) have the right to jion the (society, community) and speek and ask questions. (and live in a comunity sence share food ect)

this is an example of a people democracy where all are equal,

as conpaired to a govenment democracy where you have "largest group vote" of citizens to elect a person to represent you.

this does not change the govenment republic (mecanism for debating and passing bills into law)

The OWS can take their democracy and shove it where the sun don't shine! Out of democracy rises tyranny, and the OWS has gone out of their way to illustrate just how enamored they are with tyranny and how terribly much they desire a shot at being tyrants themselves.

and yet look on a smaller scale the organic democracy works for people living togther with the food and libaries and discussions and music and debate, they look after each other, they work together, people caring about other people in a "comunity sence"


people miss the feeling of being connected to each other and in a social sence and working towards the benifit of other people, when people are "allowed" to feel good by helping others,
you have an organic democracy



its called being human ,

and the most beautiful thing of all

THEY ARE ALL THERE FOR EACH OTHER AS A COMUNITY
organic democracy. for the benifit of all
not so one person can TAKE OVER the encampment.

piece and light
xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

this does not change the govenment republic (mecanism for debating and passing bills into law)

This is precisely what I am talking about in terms of uneducated. The United States republic is not a "mechanism for debating and passing bills into law", it is a form of government that has placed great restraint on what the three branches of government can do.

It is the republic that protects the rights of individuals, not some hair brained democracy. It is the republic established that has empowered the courts to use judicial review to strike down any legislative act that denies or disparages individual rights. It is the republic that demands that all three branches treat the rights of the People as sacrosanct, not some hair brained democracy.

It is not democracy that establishes freedom. It is the rights of individuals and the solemn respect for those rights that establishes freedom.

Glad people are getting to register their opinions and that we

still get to register our opinions for the time being. Democracy

is alive and well which is a thing to be proud of!

this does not change the govenment republic (mecanism for debating and passing bills into law)

This is precisely what I am talking about in terms of uneducated. The United States republic is not a "mechanism for debating and passing bills into law", it is a form of government that has placed great restraint on what the three branches of government can do.

yet there are no prosicutions on wall street and joe corzine is walking around a free man at the moment,
i love the idea of a republic form of govenment

It is the republic that protects the rights of individuals, not some hair brained democracy. It is the republic established that has empowered the courts to use judicial review to strike down any legislative act that denies or disparages individual rights. It is the republic that demands that all three branches treat the rights of the People as sacrosanct, not some hair brained democracy.

it is the individual getting together with other people who defend the republic,
you completly left out the fact that it is the duty of a member of a republic to defend that republic,

that means citizens must be involved even just in sociatial debates on policy

It is not democracy that establishes freedom. It is the rights of individuals and the solemn respect for those rights that establishes freedom.

it is the people who demand freedom from opression that express those rights that make them free,
you are not free because your govenment says so,

in this sence if you cant tell the difference you are like the other speakers on RT
you know nothing of an organic democractic leaderless movement.

are you in media?

xploder

Originally posted by kellerphoenix
reply to post by XPLodER

 

What scares me more than WWIII, an asteroid impact, a supervolcano or anything else is the idea of this movement. There needs to be structure in any leadership. There need to be laws, rules, control without it there is only anarchy.

edit on 23-11-2011 by kellerphoenix because: (no reason given)

Whys there have to be a leader?

People are able to control themselves but I bet you turn around and then say you are

for freedom and individuality next. You like individuals but cant stand people acting like such

reply to post by XPLodER

yet there are no prosicutions on wall street and joe corzine is walking around a free man at the moment, i love the idea of a republic form of govenment

Deflection does not make you appear any more intelligent. Wall Street has very little to do with the denial and disparagement of rights, and when it does, such as the Enron scandal, you can bet your sweet patatootie that people are prosecuted, but hey! Why not ignore that and pretend that somehow your individual rights have been denied and disparaged because of business.

it is the individual getting together with other people who defend the republic, you completly left out the fact that it is the duty of a member of a republic to defend that republic,

I did not leave that out, since I appear to be the only one in this thread defending that republic. You just vacillate.

that means citizens must be involved even just in sociatial debates on policy

In the United States republic you do not need to be a citizen in order to assert your unalienable rights, and if it did require citizenship to do so that would mean those rights were not unalienable but rather civil rights.

it is the people who demand freedom from opression that express those rights that make them free, you are not free because your govenment says so, in this sence if you cant tell the difference you are like the other speakers on RT you know nothing of an organic democractic leaderless movement.

Stop pretending like you can just rely on your prepared talking points to reply to anyone who confronts you. Obviously you are not paying attention to my confront, nor do you have any idea who you are replying to. Your disingenuousness is beyond intolerable.

Get this straight, sport. Unalienable rights are not granted by any human or artifice created by humans. I do not see anywhere where you have spoken in defense of inalienable rights, and in between your vacillation you just keep yammering on about democracy. Sigh.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


can you not distinguish between a cominity "democracy" and a govenment that runs on democracy or a republic form of govenment

do you understand the idea of people living eating and sleeping together as a whole and looking out for the needs of the whole comunity?

a comunity in this sence "FUNCTIONS" ON THE DEMOCRATIC PRICNIPALS OF THE PEOPLE
the "moral code" of the cominity is everyone is equal

this is the definition of a social democracy, (NOTHING TO DO WITH GOEVENMENT)
they decide whats wrong with their country and engage the political process with a template for legislation they want to see passed (paperwork is given to representitives of the people (ELECTED OFFIALS)

the elected representitives draw up a bill (THE PEOPLES DUELY ELECTED LEADERS)

this is then presented for debate in the normal process (infront of the law makers)

when passed the bill is signed into law by the potus.

no cercumventing anything,
no changing anything other than where the original idea for generating legislation comes from

instead of corps writing laws to be passed by congress
people write laws to be passed by congress

this is now the third time you have reverted to personal insult

i wish to discuss this with you
please keep to the points

xp

reply to post by XPLodER


Can you not distinguish between unalienable rights and civil rights? Do you have no idea what it means to possess unalienable rights? No individual anywhere needs any goddamned consensus to enjoy unalienable rights. No goddamned democracy is needed, no goddamned republic is needed as the rights exist with or without government.

The more you insist on blathering on and on and on about democracy the more sure I am you are a threat to freedom. Not a threat to government, you're not. Just a threat to freedom.

Deflection does not make you appear any more intelligent. Wall Street has very little to do with the denial and disparagement of rights, and when it does, such as the Enron scandal, you can bet your sweet patatootie that people are prosecuted, but hey! Why not ignore that and pretend that somehow your individual rights have been denied and disparaged because of business.

you do realize this is not about looking smart
as you can tell by my spelling anyone can look stupid.
deflection ok
how is it that executive orders are limited (off topic but would like to give an answer with a question)

You just vacillate.

i had to look that up are you trying to make me feel stupid?

i am defending my position and also trying to clearly state my position

United States republic you do not need to be a citizen in order to assert your unalienable rights, and if it did require citizenship to do so that would mean those rights were not unalienable but rather civil rights.

i acept the use of citizen was in apropriate in this context

etending like you can just rely on your prepared talking points to reply to anyone who confronts you. Obviously you are not paying attention to my confront, nor do you have any idea who you are replying to. Your disingenuousness is beyond intolerable.

i answer as may questions directed to me in a freindly way
i have no "prepaired talking points" and am typing directly into the "chat box" hence no spelling cheacker
no cut and paste (just one on one) you and me

raight, sport. Unalienable rights are not granted by any human or artifice created by humans. I do not see anywhere where you have spoken in defense of inalienable rights, and in between your vacillation you just keep yammering on about democracy. Sigh.

sport is condicending
i prefer xp or xploder,

i think you miss the point define OWS

Democracy is generally defined as a form of government in which all adult citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.[1] Ideally, this includes equal (and more or less direct) participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law.[1] It can also encompass social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.[citation needed

wiki

except in this case replace "govenment" with comunity or society

democracy at the cominity level is where everybody has a say in the comunity for the comunity and this when disusing policy or legislation as a comunity is the defination of a organic democracy in the sence stated in the OP


xploder