John Hutchison team and the Freemason who endangered lives

Okay so I was visiting the hutchison effect, which is a website about John and his team who are working on various experiments.

I had found a story about what had happened there on remembrance day.

Hutchison remembrance day story

There is a written story, and some videos. The video's are mostly about the incident.

Why is Freemason in the title?
Well it turns out ~

On 11/11/11, a freemason with a letter of authority from the City of New Westminster, B.C. took a knife and cut the lines of the HMS Pacific Express. Our sister ship and neighbor had been attacked in broad daylight by the owner of the Marina (Sather Boat Works) in full view of everyone.

This is really ironic that a known freemason decided that remeberence day would be the day war was declared upon the children as the ex-warship WWII HMS Pacific Express Class Sub-Chaser was cut loose endangering everyone including the Alex Fraser Bridge had she gone down river! Our story will continue after the video.

Now this action directly endangered not only the adults, but the youth that were there.

I know alot of the masons here have talked about how masons are taught to be better men, and to live as an example.

I do understand that you cannot condem a group of people based on the actions of one, but it does raise the question,


What do the masons here think of this?

*add* there was no police presence at the scene, for due process, nor was there any advance notice befor the person showed up. I am not sure of the legality of this action.

reply to post by KingAtlas


You want a Freemason's opinion? What a sensationalist piece of rubbish that article is.

Its not an article, its a first hand account....

I am not trying to say Masons are bad or evil, I have made other threads in the mason area, and I never said they were anything but people.

I am just saying that this aparticular mason has acted in a certain way, and i am wondering if that is normal?


I will state again it is a first hand account.


*add* from my experience here with mason's most are pretty good people. I said in the OP I am not trying to base the opinion of all the group based on the actions of one. I am just wondering if this is acceptable mason behavior in the eyes of other masons

So I am assuming all freemasons support he actions of other freemasons, not matter what.
Because they are freemasons.


That is scary.


To support anothers actions, just because he is from the same group as you... even if those actions are endangering lives.

I was lead to believe that freemasons were good men, who followed good behavior and set an example,
I see I was wrong.
I never though freemasons were anything but upstanding citizens.
I see I was wrong.
I thought if one freemason did something that was wrong, another freemason would be the first to point it out.
I see I was wrong.


I have lost respect for freemasonry.

reply to post by KingAtlas

Oh the horror, oh the humanity, oh the over-sensationalized bunch of horse # I've seen in a long time.

It's a story shown from a blow hard of a captain who even doubts his own intelligence. Other than him yelling about it, how do we know it was illegally cut? For all I know that marina is privately owned and the owner evicted them. And why did that video have "Occupy Vancouver" in the title? I do love how it's cloudy out with winds maybe seeing 20-25 knots (trust me, I can tell these things particularly by the barely raising canopy), and he's calling it a storm.

On 11/11/11, a freemason with a letter of authority from the City of New Westminster, B.C. took a knife and cut the lines of the HMS Pacific Express. Our sister ship and neighbor had been attacked in broad daylight by the owner of the Marina (Sather Boat Works) in full view of everyone.

My question is, how did they know him to be a Freemason? And what that has to do with anything because his supposed Masonic connection has nothing to do with his "alleged" actions. Attacking the ship? What did he wear a patch and have a parrot on his shoulder.

Now this action directly endangered not only the adults, but the youth that were there.

From the video, no one other than the "captain" was freaking out. And if those dingy boats were so worried about the people why were they not getting them off the boat first? How old were those people in the dingys? They didn't look like kids nor did the video make any reference to that.

I know alot of the masons here have talked about how masons are taught to be better men, and to live as an example.

How do we know the "cutter" was even a Mason? The video didn't even say it. Did the man show up and say "Excuse me, I'm a Mason from the city with a letter?" The article, if you call it that, just throws it out there like the man is a well known Freemason, but they make no note of that, or how he is known to be a Freemason.

From the site:

At 11/11/2011 the entire free world stopped what they were doing for at least two minutes and meditated upon war and freedom, life and death, honor and valor.

We did?! This was the first I had heard of it.

If only we had footage or proof.

I'm sure there is, but it didn't suit the agenda of the author of the piece so it was probably cut off.

...co-ordinated this attack against these unarmed children and then denied them all emergency services while they fought for their very lives.

Again, sensationalized. I didn't see "fighting for their very lives". I saw them carefully pushing a boat, but I saw no life threatening actions nor did I see anyone in need of Emergency Services. Who was denied these services? What services did they need? Will they testify to such assaults?

reply to post by KingAtlas

Why bring up that he is a Mason? Why not condemn him as a man?

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I have lost respect for freemasonry.

We really didn't ask for it.

First, there's no supporting evidence to the claim that Ken Milne is a Freemason.

Second, even if he is, his actions have nothing to do with his membership in the fraternity. You could have just as easily titled this thread "John Hutchison team and the Canadian who endangered lives", because it's equally irrelevant.

Third, the "first hand account" is practically accusing him of attempted murder, when, at most, it sounds like poor judgement and reckless endangerment. Phrases like "Milne who personally slit the ropes and tried to kill the children" are assertions that it was Milne's intent to end as many human lives as possible. A rational person would infer from the account that no such intent ever entered Milne's mind. His actions and attentions were on the boat, and not the consequences. Stupid? Perhaps. Homicidal? Hardly.

*add* It's a first hand account of their own experiences, you expect them to photograph everyone that comes to the door, paranoid much? You want freemason information about the citizen, go look it up, you guys are freemasons. No, wait you guys are perfect, and the rest of us are scum, i forgot.


yes I apologize, once again, it is proven that all masons are perfect individuals.

If anyone says anything abotu masons they deserve to be hung.
I don't care... I really have begun disliking freemasons now.

Honestly, the way you guys behave here sometimes is decent, then you guys act like a bunch of children.


I was posting what it said on the site.
They didn't just make up the fact he was a mason, why would they?

You guys are beyond help.

I will no longer take anything freemason related as innocent.

Protect your brother, I see.

Obviously it is sentationalised, if you were in that encounter, in that context, would you be as upset.


Oh I forgot, Freemasons aren't to be judged the same as the rest of us, because some guys have said bad things about you guys in the past.


I am upset. I don't care.

Now freemasons disgust me, and i used to respect you guys.
I know you never asked for respect, but some of the members here earned that from me.

I think that waht people say about freemasons must be true now, you guys just protect your own no matter what.
Not even one of you mention that what he did was wrong.
You just protect you fellow member, that is disgusting.

I can't express my feelings here. If I ever meet a freemason in real life I will treat him with distain now, becaus of you guys.

Freemasonry is just about protecting your fellow members no matter what.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
*add* It's a first hand account of their own experiences, you expect them to photograph everyone that comes to the door, paranoid much? You want freemason information about the citizen, go look it up, you guys are freemasons.

I did. I found no corroborating evidence that would show that he's a member of any lodge in New Westminster. He might be a member. He might not. Either way, what does his membership have to do with the actions that happened that day?

yes I apologize, once again, it is proven that all masons are perfect individuals.

You are the only one making such a claim.

If anyone says anything abotu masons they deserve to be hung.

Again, nobody here said anything remotely like that.

I was posting what it said on the site.
They didn't just make up the fact he was a mason, why would they?

To be honest, I'm more interested in why they would bother posting that on the site. What would Milne's membership in Freemasonry have to do with any of the other actions described in the account?

I will no longer take anything freemason related as innocent.

As well you shouldn't. And you shouldn't take anything Freemason related as guilty either. Freemasons are men. Nothing more, nothing less. Some are good, some are bad. Some are smart, some are stupid. You're the one who seems hell-bent on making generalizations here...

Protect your brother, I see.

Not at all. If Ken Milne committed a crime, he should be charged in a court of law. If he's found guilty in a court of law, and if the charge was a felony, he would most likely be stripped of his Masonic membership if he had one. We don't want felons in our ranks, so we kick them out. We don't protect the guilty.

I think that waht people say about freemasons must be true now, you guys just protect your own no matter what.
Not even one of you mention that what he did was wrong.
You just protect you fellow member, that is disgusting.

Nobody's saying what he did was right, either. We're not defending him. All we have is one side of the case, though. Some of us are not quick to judge without knowing the whole story, and we're certainly not getting the whole story from the link you provided.

Actually, I'd be weary of defending Hutchinson, personally. Sounds like he's in it for the money...

I claim my FEE SCHEDULE for any transgressions by peace officers, government principals or agents or justice system participants is FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER HOUR or portion thereof if being questioned, interrogated or in any way detained, harassed or otherwise regulated and FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER HOUR or portion thereof if I am handcuffed, transported, incarcerated or subjected to any adjudication process without my express written and Notarized consent, and ONE MILLION DOLLARS for any violence brought against me, my family, anyone or any one under my care.

source

It's clear he has a previous beef with the city... issues with his personal arsenal; fire code violations; his belief that the New Westminster police force is Canada's "most corrupt"*, etc.

I would think by throwing in an allegation of Masonic membership, he's trying to prove a conspiracy against him by the city government. And after all, what's a good conspiracy without Masons?

Oh yes, bring up the cases against him, without bringing up the fact they were throw out of court, or found to be unsubstantiated.

Talk about not bringing all the facts, just one side, the same thing you accuse me of....

Originally posted by KingAtlas
Oh yes, bring up the cases against him, without bringing up the fact they were throw out of court, or found to be unsubstantiated.

Talk about not bringing all the facts, just one side, the same thing you accuse me of....

Not at all. Regardless of the outcome of said cases, his own site shows that his relationship with the city of New Westminster is acrimonious and adversarial. He blames the city for making his landlord do something. That's just a statement of fact, without any judgement attached to it on my part. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I AM saying where he puts the blame, and I don't think you'd disagree with that assessment.

Let us simplify for a moment.

Do you, KingAtlas, believe that on November 11, 2011, Ken Milne purposefully sought to injure or kill any people as a direct result of his actions on that day?

That is the assertion that Hutchinson is making on that webpage, and that is the assertion that both KSigMason and myself find difficult to believe.

So what's your opinion?

reply to post by KingAtlas

Please note that these are your words, not ours. You cannot even definitively prove he was a Mason and what relevance that has to do with anything?

Why bring up he was a Mason? Why define him by that measure when he was not acting on behalf of the Fraternity?

I'm not protecting his actions, but I'm not hyping them up or sensationalizing them like the article tried to do.

We do kick members out for their actions, but alas I'm not a member of that jurisdiction or lodge so I have no control over what happens to that man, if he was a Mason or not.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
*add* It's a first hand account of their own experiences, you expect them to photograph everyone that comes to the door, paranoid much?

No, I expect you to take a "firsthand account" with a grain of salt unless it's extensively corroborated. It's not.

You want freemason information about the citizen, go look it up, you guys are freemasons.

I don't think you know how this works. You made/propagated a claim. You substantiate it.

For the record, though, several of us have looked for it. Bupkis.

No, wait you guys are perfect, and the rest of us are scum, i forgot...yes I apologize, once again, it is proven that all masons are perfect individuals...If anyone says anything abotu masons they deserve to be hung.

Please quote this from a Mason on ATS. Ever.

I don't care... I really have begun disliking freemasons now.

I can live with that. Doesn't seem like there's anything we can do about it, given that it's based on something none of us said.

Honestly, the way you guys behave here sometimes is decent, then you guys act like a bunch of children.

Because the mature thing to do is to repeat hearsay and yell "I hate you!" when nobody accepts it as gospel.

I was posting what it said on the site.

And we have no right to dispute that account?

They didn't just make up the fact he was a mason, why would they?

A) Your assumption that nobody ever lied about someone being a Mason is contradicted by the facts. People claim Masonic membership for terrible people all the time. It's useful, and utility trumps factuality for the kind of person who would say such a thing.

B) He doesn't have to be lying for what he says to be untrue. He could just be, you know, wrong.

Protect your brother, I see.

Could you please establish that he is our brother first?

Obviously it is sentationalised, if you were in that encounter, in that context, would you be as upset.

So you admit it's sensationalized, but you still want everyone to treat every aspect of it as the undisputed truth?

I am upset. I don't care.

If you didn't post this for a rational argument, why did you?

I think that waht people say about freemasons must be true now, you guys just protect your own no matter what.
Not even one of you mention that what he did was wrong.
You just protect you fellow member, that is disgusting.

No, we asked how it was known he was a member. You don't care whether that's true. Honestly, that disgusts me.

I can't express my feelings here. If I ever meet a freemason in real life I will treat him with distain now, becaus of you guys.

Let's assume anyone ever said "all Freemasons are perfect people" (still waiting for you to establish that). How is one "all Freemasons are beneath contempt" any better?

To answer the original question:

If a Freemason cut the rope on a boat and put kids' lives in danger I would condemn his actions.

As the master of my lodge if a member was convicted negligently endangering the lives of children he would be brought up on Masonic charges, suspended and ultimately have his membership revoked.

As Freemasons we expect our brothers to be good citizens and to lawfully obey the laws of the nation in which they reside. In particular we are expected to go above and beyond to protect children, widows and the less fortunate in society.

I don't think freemasonry has anything to do with this stupid article, but since you asked I answered.

I'm not a Freemason, nor do I have any desire to be one, since last I heard they don't allow atheists or women to join.

I do have to side with them on this though. This man's actions, if they actually happened, cannot be laid at the feet of the Masons. All we have is one man's account that a member of the Freemasons attacked his ship. There is no proof that the attack was ordered by the Freemasons.

Painting them with the same brush you paint this guy with would be like blaming all Christians for Eric Rudolph, or Timothy McVeigh.

Boat rope cutting is right in the first degree we take as Masons, surprised you didn't know that.

Just as embezzlement and fraud (ala Jim And Tammy Baker) are taught in Vacation Bible School.

Fail.

reply to post by jimnuggits
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