Esa establishes contact to Phobos Grunt, page
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reply posted on 23-11-2011 @ 04:49 AM by Xcathdra
Darmstadt - after numerous attempts has succeeded the European Space Agency ESA contact to the misguided Russian Mars Moon probe "Phobos-Grunt". "We have sent up a command, the probe has replied," an ESA spokesman said on Wednesday in Darmstadt. "Now is clear 'that 'Phobos-Grunt' still alive'."


It remains to be seen whether the to save circular space probe was for two weeks in orbit, said René Pischel, head of the Russian delegation to ESA: "the patient is though not dead, but he is as ill, we do not know yet." The signal contained no telemetry data. "We make a renewed attempt at coming night", so Pischel.

Geglückt, the contact is out on Tuesday evening from the ground station in the Western Australia Perth. "The angle of 'Phobos-Grunt' is from there conveniently", a spokeswoman in Moscow, "and the solar module of the spacecraft receives sufficient sunlight." said

Just a few hours before the Russian Space Agency had informed Russian Federal Space Agency in Moscow, that the 13.5 tonnes and 120 million euro expensive space probe "Phobos-grunt" as good as lost was and probably fall in the next few weeks on the ground. The US Canadian space surveillance command Narad was even assumed that the probe could crash on 26 November already.

After reaching orbit on 9 November, the engines of equivalent 125 million euro expensive "Phobos-Grunt" for the onward flight to the Martian moon of Phobos had not ignited. Since there was no contact more. The Russians had asked for help therefore the ESA.


Here is an English translation using a translation program in IE.,


reply posted on 23-11-2011 @ 04:52 AM by derpif
reply to post by Xcathdra


Thank you
I tried google.translate but it turned out not too well.



reply posted on 23-11-2011 @ 06:18 AM by Xcathdra
Originally posted by derpif
reply to post by Xcathdra


Thank you
I tried google.translate but it turned out not too well.


You're welcome... Not that the translation is the best lol.

Hopefully they will be able to fix the probe...


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 04:21 AM by derpif
Thank you both for your replies.

There is some update, but it doesn't raise any hopes for the probe to continue with the original mission.
The article states that if the craft is fully operational, the best scenario would be to use it for the study of near-earth asteroids.
Apparently there are no plans for another Russian Mars mission in the near future.
The Russian Federal Space Agency Roscosmos stated future missions will be focussed on the moon.

Experts believe that the Mars mission has failed as the last "window of opportunity" for sending the probe on course to Mars closed on Monday, but obtaining telemetric data from the spacecraft could help to find out the causes of the failure and make adjustments for future interplanetary missions.
The deputy head of the Phobos-Grunt project chief scientist, Alexander Zakharov of the Space Research Institute, said the telemetry would show whether the spacecraft could be "reanimated" and used in another research mission.
He said that if the spacecraft is fully operational, the best scientific mission for it would be to study a near-earth asteroid.


Source

Edit to ad:
And to make this a liitle more ATS-compatible, on my search for an update in English I found a headline on interfax.com.
At the moment it's just that, a headline. Not clickable and no article to be found.
To find it scroll down to 13:32.

13:32 U.S. radar could have disabled Phobos-Grunt equipment - expert(part2)


Source
edit on 24-11-2011 by derpif because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 05:15 AM by Xcathdra
reply to post by derpif


You know I was thinking about something. I wonder if they could possibly use the X-37 space craft to possibly repair the malfunction, or at least secure the probe and maneuver it to the ISS to see if a space walk could fix it. I hope they dont just flush 170 million down the drain without exhausting all possibilities.


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 07:34 AM by Illustronic
reply to post by derpif


I find it curious that excerpt stated the trajectory window closed on Monday when NASA is launching the Mars Science Laboratory 'Curiosity' this Saturday. I suppose its possible that Phobos-Grunt is equipped with the rocket power for a loopier trajectory to Mars than Curiosity's trajectory but the launch window to Mars is far from being closed. One would think 11,000 pounds of rocket fuel could make the escape velocity sufficient enough to adjust its original flight trajectory but I'm not a rocket scientist and I suspect Phobos-Grunt has hardware failures.

Well browsing into the propulsion design of Phobos-Grunt suggests its main SPD-140 electric engines is a kind of ion thruster and not a more traditional rocket like the Centaur restartable RL-10 engine Curiosity is using for earth escape velocity. This is a slower reactive thrust so a longer trajectory may be it's only flight option and that window may have closed.


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:43 AM by AnotherHumanBeing
reply to post by Xcathdra


That would be a great idea.
Although i cant help but wonder why in 2011 we have this trouble in the first place.


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 09:35 AM by Illustronic
reply to post by AnotherHumanBeing


Phobos-Grunt about 175 million, Mars Science Laboratory about 1.63 BILLION US dollars, may be part of the reason. I know its a bit apples and oranges comparison but the Russian probe attempt was developed on a shoestring budget.


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 09:45 AM by DJW001
reply to post by Illustronic


Well browsing into the propulsion design of Phobos-Grunt suggests its main SPD-140 electric engines is a kind of ion thruster and not a more traditional rocket like the Centaur restartable RL-10 engine Curiosity is using for earth escape velocity. This is a slower reactive thrust so a longer trajectory may be it's only flight option and that window may have closed.


If they can restore it, it might be possible to find a transfer orbit that uses Venus as a slingshot, or perhaps just keep it alive for another two years to await the next launch window. The whole key is to evaluate whether or not the probe's damage is critical.



reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 09:47 AM by AnotherHumanBeing
reply to post by Illustronic


WOW! interesing figures i didnt know that, yeh I can understand that can play a major part in the development same with any project I guess. .. I was really hoping it wouldnt fail .

You would also think that the tech used to "get to the moon" would be cheaper today (granted its a different country but still) .. since technology tends to become cheaper as time moves tech becomes better. and that was a manned mission to the moon rather than a probe that cant get out of earths orbit.

Im not really an expert so forgive me for my inexperience and lack of knowledge on the subject, I cant help but wonder and ask questions.


reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 02:38 PM by Xcathdra
Originally posted by AnotherHumanBeing
reply to post by Xcathdra


That would be a great idea.
Although i cant help but wonder why in 2011 we have this trouble in the first place.


Well for some reason us humans have a knack for making things overly complicated.

During the space race back in the day the US spent a few million dollars developing a pen that would work in space.

The Soviets used a pencil.

Even today people still underestimate the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep is Simple Stupid to those who arent familiar with it). The 6 p's also hold true (Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance).

Apprently we are doomed to continually reinvent the wheel.


reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 05:08 AM by AnotherHumanBeing
reply to post by Xcathdra


Jeez I did not know that about the pen ...how thick can you get. Not one person said "hang on a minute, we could save money and use a pencil" LOL!

so the russians had a smaller budget.. I rekon they had bigger brains...and didnt put money where it wasnt needed like said case above lol

I love ATS! learn something new all the time cheers!


reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 05:46 AM by Xcathdra
reply to post by AnotherHumanBeing


I completely agree on learning news things. Whats worse is the Russian space program is still using the same, but updated, space craft from those space race days. We opted for a shuttle that is so advanced we had to put it out of service after only 20 +/- years.


reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 08:13 AM by Illustronic
reply to post by AnotherHumanBeing


NASA's relatively lower tech GRAIL mission to send the 2 spacecrafts to the moon on a 3 1/2 month trajectory still is going to involve $496 mill, but I believe that is the entire mission cost. Normal earth escape velocity would get you to the moon in 3 days, GRAIL used just enough propulsion to reach sun-Earth Lagrange Point 1, a gravitationally stable spot between our planet and the sun. This route is energy-efficient.

Space.com-GRAIL.


reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 08:30 AM by Illustronic
reply to post by Xcathdra


30 years, and it was such a revolutionary bird the Russians felt they had to copy it, again on a lower budget by using jet engines on their Buran instead of turbo pumped fuel fed main Shuttle rocket engines on the craft, yet they never manned flew the thing(s). Talk about throwing money away for nothing....but a Gorky park display...Google maps, hit it.

Buran at Wiki.


reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 08:40 AM by Illustronic
reply to post by DJW001


I'm not sure Venus is in a position to assist in any flight trajectories, it's near the opposite side of the sun as Mars is right now. Cool solar system 3D interactive.
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