OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

No, if anything, it's reinforced my support. Seeing constant generalizations applied to the movement, and hearing people complain that they're not attacking the right head of the two headed dragon doesn't sway my beliefs in the least.

Is it the most ideal protest imaginable? Of course not, but it's better than containing our hate for the corrupt members of the government to an internet chatroom or our own private thoughts.

Are there members of the protest who don't really care about it, but are just there to do stupid things like steal stuff, commit crimes, and cause other problems? Sure, but that doesn't mean that's who the whole movement is populated by.

Are there communists/socialists/nazis/anarchists involved? Sure, but the overall, commonly shared belief among the protesters is not that we should instill a communist or socialist or nazi or anarchist government, so that's really irrelevant. Plus that's a tiny minority, and if you don't believe it, step away from the computer screen, go to the nearest occupy protest, and do a survey of which they support: socialism, communism, nazism, anarchism, or a non-corrupted representative democracy/Constitutional republic.

Are there people involved who really are just ignorant, and don't have the slightest idea of what caused the financial collapse, and that our government is corrupt and has been hijacked? Sure, they may be upset at other things that other people are also upset about, but people aren't protesting the education or the health care system. It's primarily about bankers hi-jacking our government, hence the term "occupy wall street". While many other things that people are protesting have resulted from the actions of these bankers, such as foreclosures or joblessness, getting off track into topics like health care seems really quite stupid to me.

But at the end of the day, when you weed out the two communists and the two anarchists from your local occupy protest of hundreds, and start having a discussion with people who are actually informed and know why they're there, you realize that lots of them are just people who want to have a non corrupted system which doesn't screw over millions of the poor and middle class due to the actions of an extremely tiny portion of the wealthy elite.

My opinion of OWS has not changed one bit. The second i saw that anonymous was involved i knew it was doomed to failure, it is just me thinking along the lines of statistics. Generally whatever protest or call to action anonymous has supported usually ends with no change and with members of their "movement" getting arrested.
Sonny
PayPal
FBI
Church of Scientology
amazon.com
NATO book store
All "targets" of their "wars" and to this day they are all pretty much doing the same thing unaffected. So now they move up to wall street, i do not think they are going to pull anything off this time.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic


When has a Tea Party event ever hurt people? Their numbers exceed the OWS in the USA and there has never been a violent action perpetrated by any Tea Party gathering. OWS works very very hard to make sure their members do in fact break the law and are supported by the elite in the media and Government. The very people that they feign to oppose are the ones they are supporting!

The Tea Party and their supporters want less government and more freedom for the people in these (sort of) united states. The OWS crowd wants more government and less freedom for everyone but themselves (they just don't know that is what they are fighting for).

I'm not worried. It takes a long time to change from good to bad and I'm pretty old.

reply to post by supine


Two months old. I most definitely do back up what I say. Please point to a post where I don't.
Accomplishments (IMO of course)

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not bad for 2 months.

My opinion went from this movement being an spontaneous outburst of what people wanted changed to seeing OWSers as a bunch of useful idiots after learning more about the cold war.

reply to post by QuietBeige


I'm sorry, but the only thing I know the tea party for, is complete ignorance, spreading hate, lies, fear mongering, and "you'll pry my guns from my dead cold hands" and "i didn't vote for that monkey" ....

OWS is about stopping the corruption and giving America back to the people. Those same people which it was taken from, are the occupiers. If that was the Tea Parties message, It was lost among all the slander.

There is a VAST difference between the two, IMHO of course....

reply to post by SavedOne


Couldn't have said it better. I did try but your response rings true. Thank you for the clarity!

reply to post by nopeitwasntme


Where did THAT come from? You need to check your mind - chop chop!

Started out very supportive of OWS. Based on Occupy's own webcasts, pro OWS bloggers, OWS supported web vids, and mostly due to thuggish and extremely collectivist pro-OWS ATSers, I have come to the conclusion that OWS is the epitome of tyranny and anti-Americanism.
Which is sad, because I believe the basis for their anger and frustrations is very viable and should be something all Americans feel.
The solutions I hear from OWS are far worse than the banks.
My frustrations are the same, but, from the very fiber of my being I could never support such a treasonous movement.

Peace

reply to post by radosta


I hear you. I'm a big fan of Normal Bob Smith. He has tons of vids on youtube and took up the cause of OWS in some ways.

There is a point where appreciating someones work to show the truth breaks down and you have to decide for yourself if it really is true. Apparently you started thinking for yourself just like I did. It doesn't mean we can't enjoy the same channels of information as we always have though! I still watch this dude's uploads and really do like them for their raw content and sometimes artistic turns. I just don't always agree with the message.

i think i've figured it out.
the plan was to bring down the american government by driving it and its people into poverty. the only way to do that, was

first to make having a business here very difficult.

second, to get off the gold standard, institute a central bank, and get ahold of the financial livelihood of the workforce.

third, to pass laws that allow a huge influx of new voters from foreign communist and socialist countries, with special perks such as free educations, first dibs at jobs and social assistance, not only putting american tax payers out of work, but heaping even more taxes on the shoulders of those who still had jobs.

fourth, instituting laws that made the standard of living extremely high, and expecting american families to sustain that or lose their children or livelihoods, forcing many to take up the safety net called credit, then tagged on huge interest rates and fines to slow payers, and then creating credit reporting bureaus so that even after you had paid in full with all associated higher rates and fines, you would find it difficult if not impossible to get jobs or be able to rent properties.

fifth was to make the expense of running a large company impossibly high, and then to provide an outlet for those companies to be used as bargaining chips in bids to inculcate themselves in foreign governments, et. al,they exchanged our industrial and technological base to china in lieu of various favors but to do that they had to pass laws allowing our businesses to leave

sixth, they deliberately targetted people who could not afford mortgages, including illegals from mexico and inner city poor, to accept mortgages or take second mortgages, with huge balloon payments and short grace periods, then kicked them out of their homes they couldn't have afforded to begin with, creating a huge backlash that's grown increasingly more communistic as time advances.

seventh, now they are targetting pretty much every remaining business and corporation in this country that has alot of money or is jewish or both. various mud throwing conspiracies towards companies as benign as coffee shops and as high profile as monsanto, are the norm. if it supports america or americans in any way, it's a target. even if it is inherently unfriendly to americans but provides benefits of any kind for america or americans, it's a target.

and obama is part of this plan. he doesn't mind having a part in this and they don't mind his part in this, because it's all part of the same plan -- to bring america and the american people to ruin.

It just verified the views I already had. And the mentality of the people who hold the opposite view further supported what I felt. At the end of the day the consensus doesn't really matter here, everyone is down each others throats with a superior viewpoint. Fudge it.

ATS didn't change my opinion- attending Occupy Melbourne (Australia) did.

At first I was all for it and thought that it was incredible and was absolutely exhilarated that it was happening, I thought to myself "finally, people have woken up and are rallying together as an instrument for change" I was even planning on printing flyers up and posting them around my neighborhood. This lasted roughly 22 hours.

Then the skeptic in me started asking questions, this amidst the quick realisation that it was unorganised, leaderless and without a clear agenda or goal.

Then, I decided to draw a conclusion based on experience and on a Friday afternoon when it was really starting to gain momentum, I went and joined the protesters- nothing beats experience.

What I witnessed was a joke! A perfect example of "Sheeple" if I had ever seen one. The only groups with any sort of agenda (spirit of Eureka society and unions) were the only ones not getting a say on the megaphone at the group meeting after the march. So far, Occupy Melbourne has managed to propose a treaty between the Australian government and Australia's first nations which I think is sensational! It should of happened years ago but, it had little to do in the way of fighting corporate greed and tyranny. It also proved how the entire movement could be hijacked by special interest groups. Along with the amount of pro-communist babble and garbage my ears were subjected to.

My opinion has been changed by experience, if anything ATS has deterred me from supporting the movement also, too many supporters of the movement are too quick to label non-participants as 'sheeple', 'ignorant' etc. much the same as anti-occupiers sling mud at the movement, which I also am admittedly guilty of.

I was given my own brain and senses for a reason, I have used them, experienced it first hand and drawn a conclusion based off all arguments and experiences presented-

What more could be asked of me?

For the record, I have respect for those protesting for the right reasons and think it's great- but I AM MY OWN LEADER, I MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS this I have done and exercised MY right to do so.

Sick and tired of these threads. I don't care what the thread has to say. This will be my message from now on for ALL OWS threads.

We are the 99%. We have no political or religious agenda. We Occupy OUR LAND in hopes of stopping corporate greed and corruption!

We are the 99%. We have no political or religious agenda. We Occupy OUR LAND in hopes of stopping corporate greed and corruption!

Got it? Good.

reply to post by undo
Brilliant analysis!

What you've just described is the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.

www.americanthinker.com...

reply to post by beezzer


Absolutely,and spot on....

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by undo

 

Brilliant analysis!

What you've just described is the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.

www.americanthinker.com...

We are the 99%. We have no political or religious agenda. We Occupy OUR LAND in hopes of stopping corporate greed and corruption! PLEASE SPREAD THE MESSAGE!

Well so far it seems fairly evenly split. I'm glad most are giving good explanations as to why they feel the way they do.

Great stuff.

reply to post by SelfSustainedLoner


hi, are you a bot like Alice? alice.pandorabots.com...
i don't want to be a communist, selfsustainedloner.
i like freedom.