OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Can you lay out your concerns in one post so we don't have to chase them down?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Can you lay out your concerns in one post so we don't have to chase them down?

Are we talking a whole thread written dedicated to that? I've thought about it, also much of what I think about the movement has already been covered a few weeks back ---->Here

reply to post by Kali74


I appreciate your reply but this is the wrong thread. You quoted that from an entirely different premised thread of mine. Honest mistake

This one is asking...

OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?
Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

If you'd like to correctly post that there I'll discuss it there.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Good lord you didn't say where you wanted to discuss it lol.

Done!

reply to post by SLAYER69
My opinion hasn't changed.

Let me start off by saying, however, that good ideas have risen from these events. Corruption, the idea of money influencing politicians and legislation. Great concepts to focus on. Yay!

But their solutions is where I have issue.
I've visited several websites concerning the Occupoy and OWS movements. (I understand that there are two now, and that Occupy and OWS are different)
The general theme, though, remains the same.

Larger government.
More government control.
Universal healthcare.
Free housing.
Student loan forgiveness.
Free housing.
Free jobs.

And the arrogance. More than once I was told, "You're either with us, or against us!" (Well then, guess what MY answer was!)
We represent the 99%!
Um, did Occupy or OWS ever ask the 99% if they wanted to be represented?

Then you run into issues like adbusters, SEIU, ACORN (2.0), Van Jones, several fringe groups espousing either the end to capitalism or the change to socialism.

In the end, there is just too much baggage that goes with the movement(s). If OWS was a woman, and I was still dating, I'd stay single and run as fast as I could, away from this "psycho" chick

reply to post by supine


I fight back and I'm passionate, I'm not going to apologize for that but I don't think I have been rude or gone on the attack.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Like an ebb and flow my thoughts ideas and opinions on OWS have changed.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by supine

 

I fight back and I'm passionate, I'm not going to apologize for that but I don't think I have been rude or gone on the attack.

I am not asking you for an apology. Just remember what brought my comment about. I guess it's all in the perception of how words are deciphered.

I didn't call you rude or on the attack either. I called you harsh and unbending.

See what I mean? You have different words in your head than what I actually typed!

That is why I you lost me as even being even slightly sympathetic to the cause. Why should I when I interpret what you are expressing to be on the hostile side?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Good lord you didn't say where you wanted to discuss it lol.

Done!

You asked. I answered.

You have kindly moved it to the proper thread. I'm grateful you have

I've addressed the points you raised in it there.

Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by supine

 

I fight back and I'm passionate, I'm not going to apologize for that but I don't think I have been rude or gone on the attack.

I am not asking you for an apology. Just remember what brought my comment about. I guess it's all in the perception of how words are deciphered.

I didn't call you rude or on the attack either. I called you harsh and unbending.

See what I mean? You have different words in your head than what I actually typed!

That is why I you lost me as even being even slightly sympathetic to the cause. Why should I when I interpret what you are expressing to be on the hostile side?

One person has that affect? I don't think I'm harsh or unbending either.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Here..Here well spoken NRE..as usual you have said it so much better than I could have..I completely agree with what you have posted..I support OWS

"In Germany they first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant."

"Then they came for me --- and by that time no one was left to speak up."

German Pastor Martin Niemoller

No. My opinion hasn't changed. I never thought that OWS would change the world but it's a start.

It was a sad day today here in Quebec. They dismantled the movement in Quebec city and the Montreal mayor said that "it's time to go home"...so it's pretty much over, here at this moment.

But an important seed has been put in the ground. A very important one.

Originally posted by Kali74

One person has that affect? I don't think I'm harsh or unbending either.

edit on 22-11-2011 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

No, it's not just you. I said in my reply that my opinion was also based on personal experience that I have had with occupiers here in Phoenix.

I also said it was due to other people who comment here that are pro occupy. You might have passion but your zest is not conducive to winning others over to your cause. Instead of explaining what the movment is about, we get defensive retorts with no real answers.

People on ATS are not the enemy. Capiche?

reply to post by supine


I don't need to win you over, nor anyone else. That doesn't mean I will let stuff be said that I think is untrue without a reply or trying to correct the information.

I support OWS in the fact that it's a catalyst. Even if it does seem misguided, it is the beginning of something much larger. My opinion on that hasn't changed.

The civil rights movement took 10+ years to accomplish anything. Up until MLK did his speech at the Lincoln memorial, people were fearful of the inevitable change they knew were coming, just like what I see here on ATS. Yes the occupy protests seem to be a failure, but the movement it's starting will bring change.

We can tell the protesters to "go get a job" just as wrongly as we can tell a starving Sudanese to "go eat". There just isn't enough of the pie to go around and people are fed up and if it doesn't affect you now, it will in due time.

The question is: if and when your job, livelihood and way of life is affected by what the occupiers are protesting against, will you just lie down and take it?

I have always been against most political movements because I do not like to be placed into categories. No parties or movements really have everything I feel is right for politics anyway.

I was against this right from the start. Mainly because of their asking for freebies, disbelief in the American Dream, and hippie-like atmosphere.

Oh and like most leftist movements its a good idea but __________ Fill in the blank with reasons stated elsewhere in this thread!

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by supine

 

I don't need to win you over, nor anyone else. That doesn't mean I will let stuff be said that I think is untrue without a reply or trying to correct the information.

But when you do that you have nothing to back up your beliefs. Nothing solid.

And no, you haven't won me over. As I said earlier you are one of the reasons I will never support an occupy movement. Also, if you are not here to win anybody over, what is your point? It seems to be about as pointless as an occupy movement.

Where is a mission statement for this movement?

I see a lot of wish lists, but no goals set for how to accomplish them. Name one thing that a single one of these movments has accomplished over the last how many months?

Just because you say something isn't true is meaningless unless you can produce something substantial to prove that it isn't.

Nope. Im even more distressed at their attempts. Everyone needs to go back home to their communities and work for change WITHIN.

Marching up and down the streets...although meaningful to bring attention to the problems...does absolutely zero to change them.

Nothing will change, and if it does, it will take a long long time.

We discoevered in the 60's that WE had to change it ourselves. Lay down the signs and go back home and change the laws, elect better officials, and work to make those changes we need within each organization, bank, school, big business and the like. Run for office. Volunteer. Speak out to groups about the problems.

Nothing changes from standing on street corners. Nothing. We all need to be pro-active.

They dropped the ball...and its rolling away from the issues.

My opinion has not changed.

As always, I am in support of the rights of the people to stand up and let their voices be heard. In this situation they are doing so, even if some of the actions carried out by the protestors have been against my beliefs.

In the end, I stand affirmed to the original belief that I made perfectly clear on ATS.

This was, is, and will not be the revolution. These peaceful protests are going the way of all that have in the past, and as the support and hope of the protestors begins to falter, so too will any attention given to such.

Let me reiterate my belief on the situation: change will come only when this government feels threatened. This will happen under the threat of mass violence, or in worst case scenario, actual mass violence.

It is coming... OWS is simply the much needed precursor that will continue to frustrate the masses and give them a little more close to home example of how their words and marches mean nothing to the tyrannical leaders that control us. The system cannot be changed by working within the rules of the system.

More will continue to understand this as time goes on and as the brutality and ruthlessness grows stronger... with the media coverage growing thinner.