OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

"Occupy is mostly bashed here"

The above anonymous quote was from a recent thread I participated in earlier today where this was the perspective of a OWS supporter here at ATS. They felt that ATS was more leaning against OWS. I can't speak for that member. I also noticed [whether it was their first account here or not] but it was less than a month old and they may have possibly missed all the Strongly Pro OWS threads in the early days of the movement.

This started me thinking. Since the movement started I've seen ATS opinion sway from the earliest days of the movement from overwhelmingly Pro OWS to one of a more objectively questioning of the movement. I have stated numerous times and repeatedly that I support the General premise of the movement but have also been outspoken and critical of some of the activities carried out by "SOME" of the groups members.

Despite some ATS members overzealous blind support for the movement and those various nefarious activities done in OWS name by a small group. [I have to be honest] many of the Pro OWS supporters attitudes here are doing a great job of killing my potential support for and hope that OWS will eventually accomplish something tangible after it's all said and done.


The threads questions are basically these...

Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

I know I might be asking for the impossible here but please be respectful of others opposing views and or opinions.

Originally posted by SLAYER69The threads questions are basically these...
Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

Yes, My opinion about OWS has changed. I was fairly neutral, but supported the idea of people petitioning their government. Now, after researching, reading and watching, I support OWS completely. I am thrilled to see the PEOPLE doing what it takes to take back their country and put the power back where it should be. With the people.

Of course there are bad apples. There are going to be people who do bad things in ANY group. But I'm not going to judge the OWS movement by what SOME of their supporters do.

I have supported OWS and Anon since the beginning (well, not the very very beginning of Anon, but way earlier than OWS). ATS has only made me support OWS more, I am extremely hopeful.

No my opinion hasn't change and will never change the simple fact OWS went after the wrong people people can argue til their blue in their face and camp out and "protest" their little hearts out but the simple fact is its been over 2 months and what have they accomplished?

Absolutely nothing and yep some of their defenders have earned my utter contempt which are nothing but ideologues others not so much.

Honestly they to rethink what they want and how they want to get their because of all the "Events" that have happened they are not doing themselves or anyone else any "favors".

I have been supportive of the brave, dedicated people that are willing to stand up to TPTB and their paid or just thoroughly brain dead supporters.... The people of OWS are the only true patriots in the country as far as I am concerned.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

I have supported OWS since I first heard about it. As time passes and I learn more, my support has grown. I fully support their aims and goals, which in my opinion are clearly stated.

I have seen interviews with various persons who at least claim to speak for the goals of the movement and I have without exception been impressed with their eloquence and clarity.

Are there individuals who have donned the OWS mantle who are in reality gutter trash? No doubt. Just as there are people who fit that description and have donned the mantles of Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Evangelist, Tea Party, you name it. NO group of any size of humans will be completely free of gutter trash.

These people are not, despite the claims of the fringe right wing, a bunch of deadbeats who want everything given to them. The one thing they want is an equal opportunity in the US.

Which is, according to tradition, the land of equal opportunity. At the current stage of history, that is manifestly not so. The OWS movement is working to reverse that.

Will they succeed? I sincerely hope so. They have the odds stacked against them, but so did the Women's Suffrage and Civil Rights movements in their day.

Yup my feeling changed too. From neutral to pulling my support from the movement.

My reasons relate to the fact that I'm not see a vehicle for change being suggested by any of the participants. But I view most protests the same way. Yes it's nice to voice your demands, but in my world, it works best if you come half way and provide some reasonable suggestions as to how you'd like them met. As well, arguments that make an overarching claim that "5% get's ALL the money" is nothing more than someone's opinion without solid facts to back it up.

As well, the OWS has to realize that the banking/mortgage/school debt problem it isn't ALL "other people's fault" and they have to make some concession that the debt problem is partly an individual person's own fault.

I believe in the old saying "God helps those who help themselves" (not talking about any selfish stealing aspects that some would come out with).

reply to post by SLAYER69


My opinion about Occupy has not changed due to ATS. I've done my own investigating about Occupy, and I feel they're overall a just group of people. I notice the members opposing them the strongest are often opposed to almost everything that involves change.

Yea, stealin' my quote and stuff.

yes my view of them has changed..
originally it sounded like good idea.
then looked at several things..
1. The overall picture - theyre going after the wrong target.
2. No clear goals
3. No realistic or viable alternatives.
4. The acceptance of criminal behavior by ows members.
5. Threats of violence by ows members.
6. The filthy conditions and lack of hygiene by ows members.
7. Claiming to represent everyone.
8. Disregard for fellow citizens by ows and disrupting businesses.

Etc..etc..etc..

The unwashed mindless mass does not represent me nor do I need representing by anyone to them I say the same as any other government, group, leader,religion.. Go to hell its my life I live it on my terms.

Change is needed in the world .. However ows is neither capable nor qualified to bring the change that is needed.. They're pawns playing wannabe revolutionary who most likely will end up getting alot of people on all sides killed.

Dont and wont support ows. Nor will they get any sympathy from me.

No, my opinion of OWS has not changed.

They still have no direction...most of the "news" you see coming from OWS now is them clashing with police for their "right" to protest/occupy. This includes blocking traffic and taking over public/private property.

And I was just told that OWS has only one goal...world wide revolution...and this person was talking about violent overthrow type of revolution. Why would I support that.

I don't throw my support behind anything that I can be sure represents me...and with OWS all over the place...I can't do that with OWS. If I did, I would be doing what most OWS supporters on ATS are doing...trying to defend it. They have to try to defend it because since there is no official stance or position...there will be radical aspects of it and then you have to try to defend that.


OWS is floundering right now...and it is a small minority of people. Black Friday shoppers will turn out in more numbers than the nation wide population of OWS "camps". More will pack NFL and College football stadiums than are out at OWS events. More will go to the voting booths in November than will ever be on board with OWS.

That should tell OWS something right there...but I don't believe it will.

Originally posted by neo96
No my opinion hasn't change and will never change the simple fact OWS went after the wrong people people can argue til their blue in their face and camp out and "protest" their little hearts out but the simple fact is its been over 2 months and what have they accomplished?

Absolutely nothing and yep some of their defenders have earned my utter contempt which are nothing but ideologues others not so much.

Honestly they to rethink what they want and how they want to get their because of all the "Events" that have happened they are not doing themselves or anyone else any "favors".

edit on 22-11-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

"what have they accomplished? Absolutely nothing"

Did you not notice the "occupy" bill that got introduced into congress to end insider trading in congress?

That bill alone proves 1. OWS has been a huge success. 2. You are being dishonest in your argument.

Oh, and let me add this for people who don't know:

"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society."

Straight off the OWS website.

I support OWS as a group, and not a few troublemakers that just so happen to make it to the cameras, or interviews talking utter nonsense. This group is way larger then many want us to believe.

I have avoided the threads concerning OWS, just to not get in the mix, how I feel is not debatable. And arguing with some members is not keeping those in the line of fire any safer.

In the long run, no matter which way this turns out, we will thank those who stood up, and gave us an opportunity to open our eyes to something that we mostly speculate on, such as our ability to protest quietly without abuse.

That was something that some of us knew, but couldn't prove, and now we dont have to. Its right there in our faces, there is no longer a reason for denial, about where our country stands.

Eventually even those of us that only write on forums, research our lose of freedom, and feel the financial crunch, will have to walk from our houses, and be part of the solution, this I feel is much more important to discuss. If we dont back up those people now that are getting pepper sprayed in the face, beaten, and arrested, when our time comes, there will be no one to help us.... there will be no one left.

We will eventually thank those that stood up, as we have done for almost all atrocities, that took people to go to the streets, and no longer be ignored, before change happened.

Peace, NRE.

I would say I'm still on the fence.

I like the idea of OWS. This country is broken and it's time people stood up for what's right; not what is right for the Republicans, the Democrats, OWS, or the 1% - what's right for everybody, what is moral and fair. This country has abandoned the ideals she was founded upon and is now in the hands of those few who hold all of the money.

I don't agree with everything OWS stands for, but I do agree that it's time for people to stand up and take their country back. This movement may not be perfect, but it's the best chance we've had in the last generation to effect some real change.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic

I have seen interviews with various persons who at least claim to speak for the goals of the movement and I have without exception been impressed with their eloquence and clarity.

Could you share those please???

Are there individuals who have donned the OWS mantle who are in reality gutter trash? No doubt. Just as there are people who fit that description and have donned the mantles of Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Evangelist, Tea Party, you name it. NO group of any size of humans will be completely free of gutter trash.

But by the very definition of OWS...they say they are the voice for ALL people...so you can't exclude them.

On the other hand...those that are "troublemakers" in the other organizations are cast out because those organizations have defined positions that they stand for...and if you are against those...you are out.

But OWS doesn't have that...any and all issues are welcomed to be championed by OWS...so how can you claim that these troublemakers aren't really part of OWS?

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
Yea, stealin' my quote and stuff.

Well then we are about to find out the pulse of ATS if this perception is true or not. Honestly, I was taken aback by that belief of yours. I see it completely the opposite here at ATS.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

My views have definitely changed. I started out not leaning one way or the other, I was curious to see where the movement was heading and watched it with interest. It started out as a disorganized gathering that didn't seem to have a particular agenda. I waited to see what agenda they would come up with because in my opinion that's what it's all about. What's a protest without an agenda or demands? But the group as a whole has never embraced a particular agenda, rather it's a hodgepodge of personal agendas that cover everything from implementing a communist government to mandating higher gas mileage for cars. The protestors now routinely engage in illegal activities through occupying public places, roads and bridges and refuse to yield; then when they're warned over and over to vacate and finally pepper-sprayed or forcibly removed they shout "police brutality". I was not a Tea Party supporter either, but I do admire what they accomplished and how they went about it. They protested lawfully and peacefully, they communicated their agenda and they caused political change in the next election. OWS has broken laws, embraced anarchy and caused no political changes at all, in fact the political establishment seems downright confused about what they want other than "free stuff". I'm totally over OWS, they're just embarrassing themselves and they most certainly do not represent 99% of the population.

I still have not changed my opinion which is that I dont support them directly. Because they still don't have a clear workable objective. Which makes their cause un-united and chaotic to say the least. Jumping up and down never solved anything..,
Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.
Henry Ford

Most people spend more time and energy going around problems than in trying to solve them.
Henry Ford

reply to post by SLAYER69


Some of these could go either way. You should've asked them to declare a side.

can't stand them more than I did when this started... I feel that things in the camps are covered up.... (you know oh the rapes)

also... the hypocrisy... Dont need to go into it

and...
Anon is acting like domestic terrorists.. THREATENING to bring down the wall street exchange (yeah that didn't happen)

just a bunch of followers following other followers...

doesn't work