Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

reply to post by PoeteMaudit


As I have stated on other threads, I have been to protests and never had an issue with the police. The only time the police did anything was when a moron ran up to them, in their faces, and started yelling at them or doing an illegal activity.

I have also been to religious gatherings, never even saw an officer.

And these were in DC.

How quickly does a riot turn into turning over cars and breakig into stores? So yes, I would say they are peace officers.
A video clip was already shown that the police gave plenty of warning and it was conducted fair and square.

I like how people protest to get the governments attention but when the government forces teh sidewalk rule or doesn''t want people trashing the place that taxpayers paid for, then its oppression and police brutality.

Talk about taking the victimization role.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Blaming the mother for going to a protest is ridiculous.

Excusing her from personal responsibility is what is ridiculous.

I'm sorry but this is supposed to be a free country where we are allowed to exercise our rights.

No one is taking away her right to protest. What is being point out is her severe lack of common sense in the venue she chooses to protest in. Going to a rally that has a history of violence and chemical crowd control is NOT using common sense.

There is no "expectation" of violence.

An anarchist rally ... with a history of violence and chemical crowd control ...
That definately has an EXPECTATION of violence attached to it.

Honestly... some of these responses make me ill.

Honestly ... some of these responses displaying a lack of common sense make my eyes roll.

So I guess she also shouldn't ride in a car. Or ride the subway. Hey.. someone might push her onto the rails. It happens. Oops.. she shouldn't eat food either because she could choke. Oh.. better not breath the air either because it can contain toxic chemicals.

Didn't read the thread, did ya'?? Those type of statements have already been made and pulled apart. They don't come close to being the same situation. Sure she can ride in a car .. but don't get in a car with a drunk driver. A drunk driver would be closer to this situation. Sure she can ride the subway, but don't do it alone at 2 am on a Saturday if it's full of gang bangers. THAT would be the same kind of situation. Sure she can breath the air, but don't go stand in the middle of a forest fire and expect to survive.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by gravitor

Could You please provide proof of the allagations You have made here about the occupy St pauls area, as I have seen very different evidence showing how meticuosly carefull about been ultra tidy and cleanthey are been to avoid this kind of disinformation.
has someone paid You to post such claims?
gravitor

I already have with pictorial evidence

Here it is again..

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I now expect the usual daft "don't believe the media" type reply which will only make me wonder if you are paid to support these lot.

Please keep liar comments to yourself, its unwanted by the new ATS guidelines and certainly an unwanted presumption on your part about me..

We have a local squat here in Northolt, it is anything BUT clean and tidy, its an eyesore with bottles strewn around the place, dirty bedding and clothing just dumped out of the windows AND a well known drug den.

NO I'm not going to provide proof, you either believe or not, it matters NOT to me but its the truth.

I also think you will find that the original protesters promised to keep the area in St Pauls clean but the activists and good time drugs lot who have amassed since made no such promises.

edit on 23-11-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

Wow a dog turd and an empty bottle.
As for the graffeti....anyone can do such, and Lomdon is packed with drug takers.
More interesting is You been at NORTHOLT, because Your rhetoric is clearly against these people and RAF Northolt is where You are.

Your stupid reference to them not working is WHY they are there.
There is a million plus under 25s with no work.
The church they have occupied represents one of the richest entities in the UK with over 5 billion invested in the crazy gambling house these people abhore.
Thats where everyones pensions are been gambled on future losses, exactly why there are losses.
gravitor

slog.thestranger.com...

I am going to call Shenanigans on this chick....

and was rushed to Harborview Medical Center, she says, where doctors performed an ultrasound and said that they "didn't see anything wrong with the baby at the time." Fox says she had also seen a physician at Harborview for prenatal care about five week before...

Now, it goes on to say that the pepper spray got to the fetus along with the 'blow' that occurred. Which is it? Pepper Spray caused a miscarriage? No. I think not.

There is also no medical report. She cannot provide it and will not. She was discharged but no report about a miscarriage. Sorry, I not even believe she was pregnant and I think this was for nothing but attention.

She cried wolf a few months ago and during an arrest of a friend during house squatting she grabbed her stomach and said it hurt...that was September. She said she was 3 months then too. You see, at three months there is no bump and no proof....

Do we see a pattern here?

If she did have a miscarriage, it was due to poor prenatal care and being homeless with poor nutrition and maybe drug/alcohol abuse and putting herself in situations that could harm the fetus. Charge her with reckless endangerment or even manslaughter.

Now, are there bad cops, yes, but EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty,,,,,

Alright I read through a bit of this thread. Question. Why exactly did the cops move in on these people? I feel like this woman should have known it was coming. OWS protesters bait police CONSTANTLY. They block traffic, cause commotion, etc. They do this so they can whip out their iPhones and try to catch cops doing something they shouldn't be. Well guess what, they got their wish at the expense of a human life. Cops don't just run up to protesters and brutalize them for no reason.

reply to post by LiberLegit

Why exactly did the cops move in on these people?

They didn't...they were holding a line so the protestors didn't flood an intersection. Cops never moved into the crowd.

To someone who posted on the last page that it would take a lot of force to cause a miscarriage at only 3 mnths pregnant, that's not true. You're at your most vulnerable during the 1st trimester.

To people who are saying she can't produce documents, that's not true - we've only learned that she hasn't produce them, not that she can't, and that's not the same thing.

To FlyersFan, who's laboured the point repeatedly that she's an idiot - congratulations. You've deduced that a 19 year old girl living on the streets, who's unsure whether she's going to sue for £10mill or £25mill isn't very clever. Bravo. Also, despite your peevishly accusing someone else of not having read the posts, please note that the details of her previously telling the police she was 3 mnths pregnant in Sept also were posted much earlier in this thread and discussed. Did you read that?

I'm not convinced she's telling the truth. She stated the miscarried child was a girl. When I miscarried at 3 mnths, it looked like raw chopped liver - though I don't know if that's the norm.

For those calling her a murderer...I despair of you.

Originally posted by LiberLegit
Alright I read through a bit of this thread. Question. Why exactly did the cops move in on these people?

You can look it up on the pages of Seattle City Govt. It was a violation of the rules stipulated in the permit granted by the City.

So we have are First death!
The Murder of a Unborn chiled.
You will blame the mother, in your sick twisted mineds.
And Not the Pig who beat a woman.
You have all seen the videos.
There is No call for this.
and still US condems othere countries for the dead in their protests.
Will Eygipt condem this Murder?

Originally posted by gravitor

Wow a dog turd and an empty bottle.
As for the graffeti....anyone can do such, and Lomdon is packed with drug takers.
More interesting is You been at NORTHOLT, because Your rhetoric is clearly against these people and RAF Northolt is where You are.

Your stupid reference to them not working is WHY they are there.
There is a million plus under 25s with no work.
The church they have occupied represents one of the richest entities in the UK with over 5 billion invested in the crazy gambling house these people abhore.
Thats where everyones pensions are been gambled on future losses, exactly why there are losses.
gravitor

edit on 23-11-2011 by gravitor because: (no reason given)

And there we have the expected reply, presented with evidence you immediately say its not them...

As for the rest of that nonsense you spouted, I'll try and deal with it as much as it offends me...

I live in Northolt, NOT RAF Northolt, please stop making stupid assumptions. I live on one of the most disgusting council estates around the area, I watch the numerous lazy teens slum around all day, doing drugs, robbing people, they prey on the people in the estate and guess what, just like your tree hugging mates they expect to be paid for doing nothing all day.

For the very few good young people here there's 50+ useless scumbags to match their numbers.

You are well and truly in the Anarchists cookbook, guess what, we ALL already know about the corruption in business

As for your boyo's being there because they don't work, FFS get a grip, these people are there having the time of their life kipping in tents, swilling booze, getting out of their skulls while people like you give them PC love, are you a fellow hugger?

Yes there are a million Plus under 25s with no work, the students and grads are fighting 100 - 1 for the same jobs, yes we know this and its a really crap situation but if you are telling me that these people laying in tents smoking dope are there for them then I'll just laugh it off a a massive mistake on your part.

I seriously ask others reading this post if they think the same people outside St Pauls are there for the countries sake, fighting the good fight or just there to p*ss and s**t and get stoned while avoiding work.

Tell you what, suspend protesters benefits and see how many stay at the site..

And lastly, stop the religion nonsense, I'm an atheist, I have no love of any religion because I know just how corrupt and mind blowing stupid it all is BUT my point is that there are people who go to St Pauls because of their faith, there are those that go to see the beauty of the architecture, there are those that go there because its a tourist spot.

Why should these people have their whole enjoyment ripped up just to suit your mates.

Clearly you are 100% on their side, you get proof you ignore it, you use the old run of the mill excuses about the governments, excuses we are all aware of but you deliberately excuse your mates disgusting behaviour as if they are doing some good there.

The original protesters were, they made their point, got media coverage and dispersed after a couple of days, these folk are there to milk their own ticket, they don't give a rats behind about the students, just where the next hit is..

These people are a blight on a good cause, if you can't see that then you might as well go and join them in the filth and drugs, perhaps you are not a hands on sort of activist?

RAF Northolt..LOL....

Around here RAF means Rats And Filth....Because that's what's around here...

Originally posted by pinksheep
So we have are First death!
The Murder of a Unborn chiled.
You will blame the mother, in your sick twisted mineds.
And Not the Pig who beat a woman.
You have all seen the videos.
There is No call for this.
and still US condems othere countries for the dead in their protests.
Will Eygipt condem this Murder?

As the facts stand we do not know the full score, as yet it has not been verified that anything was killed, to actually claim her money she will be required to prove the whole thing. As far as we know she could be a fellow anarchist from the camp trying it on or just an innocent caught up.

No I don't think the Police (not pigs please) have a right to beat the crap out of people but they do have to put up with people who do not play fair 99% of the time. That said, if a Policeman did cause any loss of child by abuse then he or she should be tried by the same rules as all of us.

And yet again, yes, some of us including a previously pregnant lady on here lay blame at the woman's door, if you choose to be part of an anarchists group or attend a known volatile grouping while pregnant then you have shown a terrible choice of thought around your child's life.

Would you send a child across a motorway to get you something from the shop?

There's no rules against it but the average person would simply not be so stupid..

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Sure.
And she has a right to protest in other - safer - ways.
And cops have a right to control crowds that have a history of breaking the law.
And unborn babies have a right to expect their mothers not to take them into dangerous situations.

Unborn babies have the right to grow without worrying about their mothers getting beat up by cops.

The cops do not have the right to control crowds that are peacably demonstrating. Inconviencing people certainly does not count.

And regardless of what happened in other cities, the cops still have no right to treat citizens as guilty off the bat. Constitution, remember?

The reasonable expectation is that going to a rally of a movement with a history of violence and use of chemical crowd control means that there is a good chance there will be more violence and more chemical crowd control.

As I said before, she still has a reasonable expectation of safety. If the cops go overboard and use excessive force, then its on them. Why should people avopid things when the cops are the ones out of control?

Here ya' go ... pregnant women unnecessarily putting themselves in situations that include violence and chemical crowd control means that they are putting their unborn child/children at risk of death. It's just that simple.

Errr, no, it's not that simple, By your logic, pregnant women who leave their houses are putting their kids at risk, given the amount of crime and violence. Pregnant women driving are unecessarily putting their babies at risk. Is that simple enough?

Free citizens have a right to go where they please, and have a right NOT to be attacked by cops for exercising their constitutional rights. It's that simple.

Dead unborn child. See it now?

Sure do. And the Seattle police department are the murderers. So, when do the charges get filed?

Sure. But the fact is that a rally full of emotion and turmoil isn't going to suddenly FREEZE because one of the protesters says "i'm pregant'. It's absurd to think it would. She was an idiot for putting herself and her child in that situation. Totally unnecessary.

edit on 11/23/2011 by FlyersFan because: fix quote

It wasn't the protesters that assaulted her, it was the cops. Unsurprising. This is the same Seattle PD I remember back in 1999 during the WTO demonstrations and eventual riots, attacking people completely uninvolved who were coming home from work walking to their houses in areas barely effected at all. The same Seattle PD that was pepper spraying people who opened their windows to look outside and see what the hell was going on.

I don't care how crap went down in toehr cities. Seattle cops only have the right to react to what is going on in front of them. In which they overreacted here, miserably. The protesters had the right to be there. They weren't causing any major problems. My step mother works a few blocks down, she believes the cops have been behaving completely out of line, and she herself is pretty apathetic about the OWS movement.

Seattle's cops were going overboard well back in 2005 when I moved, and from the looks of it, they are getting worse.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by gravitor

Wow a dog turd and an empty bottle.
As for the graffeti....anyone can do such, and Lomdon is packed with drug takers.
More interesting is You been at NORTHOLT, because Your rhetoric is clearly against these people and RAF Northolt is where You are.

Your stupid reference to them not working is WHY they are there.
There is a million plus under 25s with no work.
The church they have occupied represents one of the richest entities in the UK with over 5 billion invested in the crazy gambling house these people abhore.
Thats where everyones pensions are been gambled on future losses, exactly why there are losses.
gravitor

edit on 23-11-2011 by gravitor because: (no reason given)

And there we have the expected reply, presented with evidence you immediately say its not them...

As for the rest of that nonsense you spouted, I'll try and deal with it as much as it offends me...

I live in Northolt, NOT RAF Northolt, please stop making stupid assumptions. I live on one of the most disgusting council estates around the area, I watch the numerous lazy teens slum around all day, doing drugs, robbing people, they prey on the people in the estate and guess what, just like your tree hugging mates they expect to be paid for doing nothing all day.

For the very few good young people here there's 50+ useless scumbags to match their numbers.

You are well and truly in the Anarchists cookbook, guess what, we ALL already know about the corruption in business

As for your boyo's being there because they don't work, FFS get a grip, these people are there having the time of their life kipping in tents, swilling booze, getting out of their skulls while people like you give them PC love, are you a fellow hugger?

Yes there are a million Plus under 25s with no work, the students and grads are fighting 100 - 1 for the same jobs, yes we know this and its a really crap situation but if you are telling me that these people laying in tents smoking dope are there for them then I'll just laugh it off a a massive mistake on your part.

I seriously ask others reading this post if they think the same people outside St Pauls are there for the countries sake, fighting the good fight or just there to p*ss and s**t and get stoned while avoiding work.

Tell you what, suspend protesters benefits and see how many stay at the site..

And lastly, stop the religion nonsense, I'm an atheist, I have no love of any religion because I know just how corrupt and mind blowing stupid it all is BUT my point is that there are people who go to St Pauls because of their faith, there are those that go to see the beauty of the architecture, there are those that go there because its a tourist spot.

Why should these people have their whole enjoyment ripped up just to suit your mates.

Clearly you are 100% on their side, you get proof you ignore it, you use the old run of the mill excuses about the governments, excuses we are all aware of but you deliberately excuse your mates disgusting behaviour as if they are doing some good there.

The original protesters were, they made their point, got media coverage and dispersed after a couple of days, these folk are there to milk their own ticket, they don't give a rats behind about the students, just where the next hit is..

These people are a blight on a good cause, if you can't see that then you might as well go and join them in the filth and drugs, perhaps you are not a hands on sort of activist?

RAF Northolt..LOL....

Around here RAF means Rats And Filth....Because that's what's around here...

edit on 23-11-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

I think thee doth protest tooooooo loudly.

gravitor

Privilege or Right?

The right to assemble; and this right is GUARANTEED by the United States Constitution by the first amendment, as stated in a paper titled: "Right to Assemble," by Lisa A. Bancuk, graduate student at Indiana University, who states verbatim that the first amendment forbids actions preventing citizens from assembling as stated that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

Bancuk further illustrates and clarifies the right to: "1) parade and gather or 2) demonstrate support or opposition of public policy or 3) express one's views is guaranteed by the freedom of speech and the right to peaceably assemble," is a right which cannot be removed and is further clarified in U.S. Supreme Court decision in the case of "Hague v. C.I.O., 307 U.S. 496 (1939), the high court ruled that peaceful demonstrators may not be prosecuted for "disorderly conduct." This case also secured streets and sidewalks as public forums."

Does this not prohibit the act of pepper-spraying citizens on sidewalks and streets? From the U.S. Supreme Court decision listed above, clearly makes the decision that pepper-spraying an assembly clearly violates Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights, does it not?

In U.S. Supreme Court Case of "Edwards v. South Carolina, 372 U.S. 229 (1963)," actions taken which "penalized the exercise of free speech, peaceable assembly, and the right of petition for a redress of grievances. A disorderly crowd, or the fear of one, cannot be used to stop a peaceful demonstration or cancel the right of peaceable assembly," seems to be a valid argument in-favor of protestors in the OWS movement, and becomes a viable argument to situations where persons rights are violated, which are guaranteed.

Bancuk states that: "many groups and organizations use assembly as a way to show support for an idea or dispute," which legitimizes the OWS movement due to the lack of Main-stream Media exposure and lack of media-interest in covering this important matter.

With the few examples here, illustrating the Guaranteed Right of Assembly, Protest, Freedom of Speech, for redress of grievances, there seems to be a huge-disconnect between citizens and government, in all its forms or creations; but when rights are violated and denied, there is a multitude of citizens and veterans, who are willing to step-up and go the extra mile to protect our rights here, at-home.

Source: "Right to Assemble," Lisa A. Bancuk, learningtogive.org... - LINK

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

When you cannot speak, write about it, and when you cannot write or publish, take to the streets and assemble non-violently and shout-it out at the top of your voices! When this last right is violated, any government who suppresses this highly-esteemed Constitutionally Guaranteed Right, is guilty of violating the Civil Rights of the Citizens and should not be allowed to further violate rights which are guaranteed; but if these are not successful in-changing policy, then we all must ask ourselves if we do live in a democracy or are we mired-in socialism. If the latter is true, then truly the United States has devolved into a perversion of what the Framers of the Constitution intended.

oh wait she was lying

Originally posted by pinksheep
So we have are First death!
The Murder of a Unborn chiled.
You will blame the mother, in your sick twisted mineds.
And Not the Pig who beat a woman.
You have all seen the videos.
There is No call for this.
and still US condems othere countries for the dead in their protests.
Will Eygipt condem this Murder?

Its starting to look like she made the whole story up. Her own family called her a compulsice liar!

I had a few glasses of wine last night and vowed to never comment on an OWS thread again. But since majority of the threads lately deal with OWS, I take it back.
Some people will do anything to get money. I think this is the case with this girl. If I were pregnant, there would be no way I would put myself in a situation where there is even the slightest chance I could get hurt. I do believe that people have the right to speak their mind and the right to peacefully protest. Everyone damn well knows what has been going on, and there's a chance it could get violent. Either she is extremely ignorant and careless, or she is a liar. After all the reports, I'm gonna go with liar.

I also want to note that if the story were true, I would have sympathy. It would be a tragedy and I would feel sorry for her, but I would still find her extremely careless.

Originally posted by gravitor


I think thee doth protest tooooooo loudly.

gravitor

I think you ran out of BS to post...

Do have a good day old chap...

Originally posted by sitsoncats
she ought to be arrested and charged with manslaughter for willingly endangering her unborn child.

Reading your comment is very depressing.
I hope for your sake and children’s if you have any, that you really don’t think that way.

Originally posted by SecretFace
You're an Officer, a person shouts I'm pregnant while you're trying to carry out your orders to clear an area in a potentially volatile situation, what do you do? Let her go? …

If force was needed, he could have grabbed her by the arm and told her he will remove her safely and to follow him. Take her 10 or 20 feet deeper into the side of police and hand her off to another officer and say “she’s pregnant get her out of here” and head back to the front lines. It would have taken less than a minute.

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu
There are other ways to create change. We could turn our backs on the system and recreate it without the overlords.

If we recreate a system how our founding fathers did against the British… I'm sure many will die... well, you do the math.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by PoeteMaudit

 

I like how people protest to get the governments attention but when the government forces teh sidewalk rule or doesn''t want people trashing the place that taxpayers paid for, then its oppression and police brutality.

Talk about taking the victimization role.

The government hasn’t stepped in… If they did it would have been publically announced by now, besides, the sidewalk rule is enforced by the state. I hate to be rude but, where are you getting your facts?



Let’s get something straight here. Police officers are here to serve the public (Public servants) by keeping peace and order, they are our protectors who fight against the vicious violators of human safety. If violence should ensue, they are trained to forcefully diffuse the situation and if the moment asks for it, use deadly force as a last resort to save their own lives or/and others.
Was this woman acting violent enough that it was necessary for the police officer, who is armed and wearing protection, needed to act by using police issued mace to deter her from possibly hurting others, the officer himself, and possibly herself? I wasn't there, but it seems she wasn't.
Should she have been in attendance knowing that the police down there seem to carry out their orders with no moral judgment? Yes
Should this woman be punished for exercising her American right to assemble and protest? No
Should the police be allowed to use these tactics against unarmed civilians who may be violating a state law, but are protected by the constitution of the United States of America to assemble? Now that's tricky to answer because of the laws by the state, but I say No.


There are three major problems here.
One being that the America - we - want and have been fighting for since the birth of it, is drifting away.

The second is that police, though trained, seem to not yield to anyone if orders are given that require harming the very people they are sworn to protect.

Third, knowing how bad things are, but not accepting. Should this woman have not attended the protest at such a close distance? Yes, she should have taken the responsibility to have attended this protest at a safer distance, but that doesn’t mean she should be dealt with in the manner given for attended closer.


This is just too sketchy. I can only side with what soldiers and people of Americas past who have sacrificed their lives for…. Our rights.


But then again this could all be fabricated



Either way, fight for your rights, deny ignorance.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
I know this is not going to go well but what if she wanted this to happen? Kind of like an abortion by betting? Why else would you be there? Its possible.

I was going to add to this "so she could sue" but ended up not doing it. Wish i did