##Members Please Read##: Ending the Political Trolling

reply to post by seagull


I totally and unequivocally understand you reasoning. With you being conservative. It just the way I read it I would not be able to post my opinion. No left versus right, if I remember. I could be wrong in the wording but the context is the same. You have right v.s. left, conservative v.s. liberal. Those types of people argue. You cant stop it, you can only hinder it with warnings and bans only delaying the inevitable. Put a republican and a democratic politician in the same room and have the tackle just one subject. It could take days years to resolve their differences if it wasn't for defaults. I have no problem if the world stopped arguing and agreed on something as a whole without political non-sense and disagreement. But I know better, it's like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands.

The only way I would ever see ATS have an intellectual discussion is if you split the membership up in personality. Having the rational people allowed to post anywhere and have the irrational people post where they are posting now. A separate state within the ATS country so to speak. I wish you all the best seagull.


And that is saying something considering what I know about ATS even if you don't.

reply to post by ringlejames

Those types of people argue. You cant stop it, you can only hinder it with warnings and bans only delaying the inevitable. Put a republican and a democratic politician in the same room and have the tackle just one subject. It could take days years to resolve their differences if it wasn't for defaults.

I think you are misunderstanding what they are stating. They aren't stopping political debate. they are trying to keep the debates clean and on topic. No rules have changed, no content is taboo that wasn't. It's merely a warning saying that the mods have been pretty loose with the trolling and as the board his a spike around the election (which it always does) if the problem isn't addressed, we all suffer.

No one is asking you to settle your differences or grievances with "them", they are merely telling you that you do it in such a way that you stay within the T&C.

It's clear, to the point, and easy. I don't get the misunderstandings.

you can "hate" the left, and "hate" the liberals, just choose your words wisely, do not make it personal, do not respond with attacks. Why is that so hard?

It's not impossible.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


In fairness, it's not that clear, as I posted.

This is, in fact, simply a reminder of how arbitrary moderation can be. That's the nature of the beast. I'm not complaining about arbitrary, but it does annoy me, personally, that these guidelines are meant to be clear and concise.

Lot's of people say stuff that's offensive to almost no one, but a mod... and that post gets deleted.

On the OTHER hand I've seen people say things like, "that person deserved to be murdered, and they're just the beginning" and that post, which was horribly offensive stayed on the site for days... and, my complaints about it were removed by Mods.

(And before anyone claims that didn't happen, I have screenshots... )

Modding is often very arbitrary and "personal;" concise guidelines are almost impossible to create and people's definition of things like "trivial" not only differs, sometimes wildly, from person to person, but can even change from day to day in the same person, depending on mood and the topic at hand.

So...?

So, there's not a lot of point in saying, essentially, "here's the rules, they're clear, expect to be cracked down on if you break these clear and simple rules"

Good to know you guys have your cut out for 'ya.

-SAP-

reply to post by phishyblankwaters



I understand completely the need for a reformed political discussion. But show me one thread that has been active for a long time where it doesn't go into bashing rants and flat out arguments. Even if it does eventually get turned around, you cant turn off stupid. That is all I am saying. You can only censor it. And even the ones that keep it civil end up putting there 2 cents in. Just saying. Most likely will fall upon deaf ears. I hope good comes from this attention ats thread. Only time will tell.

Best of luck to you.

Cheers

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious



I agree with you about some. I know mods are people too and I'm sure like the rest of us have their favorite members who share like ideas with them. But they should keep in mind this is an international community on ATS. What someone from some areas might consider rude in other areas of the world it's just how they talk. For example: I have cousins from the north US who use a lot of profanity. They don't mean anything by it, it's just how they speak. Also, just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a bad person. A lot of people here are passionate and just don't go along with someone to be polite or to appease the rest. I don't think you should be punished for sticking to your beliefs. Especially when no profanity or threats are involved. Just my 2 cents worth.

Originally posted by maybee
I know mods are people too and I'm sure like the rest of us have their favorite members who share like ideas with them.

True but that doesn't excuse them from not complying to the T&C. I warned my son 3 times in one day a few years back.

But they should keep in mind this is an international community on ATS.

The staff is from around the world as well. That helps us in areas like this.

What someone from some areas might consider rude in other areas of the world it's just how they talk. For example: I have cousins from the north US who use a lot of profanity. They don't mean anything by it, it's just how they speak.

Yup, I'm one. Working in Corrections will do that to you. I make navy men blush. But I don't post as I talk because of the T&C. It helps to be a slow typist.

Also, just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them a bad person. A lot of people here are passionate and just don't go along with someone to be polite or to appease the rest. I don't think you should be punished for sticking to your beliefs. Especially when no profanity or threats are involved. Just my 2 cents worth.

Civility is all that is asked. Differing viewpoints lead to excellent discussion if there is respect, if not for the member but for the board. I LOVE reading such discussions. I wish there was more of them.

Originally posted by BO XIANActually, I think creative modifications of politicians' names is one of the best, most potent, most condensed way of communicating paragraphs of blather.

No, that's a childish way of avoiding a rational discussion.

If you can't debate substance, then stay away from political discussion.

Modifying a name is a playground tactic, and has no place in adult conversation.

So does that mean that the athiests who "regularly" patrol the religious forums dropping their "snarky" tidbits of re-education on members engaged in inciteful dialogue are henceforth served notice as well? I believe I've seen the word "moderator" attached to at least one of those "masterful teachers".

Ohh...wait...I may have sounded a little sarcastic there, but it seems several of the aforementioned trespassers operate with immunity...

I really don't see where athiests have "a dog in the fight" in the religious forums...

just sayin...

sooooo...

The question is: Are the "religious" members of ATS going to be afforded the same protection from atheists as, say, the liberals are going to be afforded from constitutionalists? This is a serious question and I seriously want an answer.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by seagull
The days of trolling ATS are coming to an end, folks.
Fair warning given. Please heed it.

I would suggest that you start with the incendiary "Are you still beating your wife?" style of thread titles. If one can't open a thread using one's inside voice...shut it down!

There are many threads started as Trolling, but I have yet to see a thread shut down because the original post was clearly trolling, when if that very same verbiage had been a -reply-to another post it would of been nixed as trolling.

Never understood that.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I agree with the idea of a Satire forum with a slightly less restrictive set of rules, simply because by its nature, satire is almost never PC. Practically any statement of a political nature tends to step on someones toes. If a statement isn't personally directed but challenges another individuals sense of decorum, is that thread going to be removed. It appears that this approach can become terribly subjective.I also believe that the mod who stated that most of these infractions are not deliberate, so if a thread is flagged, why not allow the poster an opportunity to re-edit the (offensive)" wording", without penalty, without deleting the entire scope of the message. Are we heading toward a "just the facts mam" type of forum without criticizing the implication or opinion of what those facts mean or how the facts affect any group or person. A lot of us believe that political correctness is running amuck, and does indeed stifle free expression and debate. I would also wonder how much of your (MODs) decision is being influenced by the governments attempts to censure the internet, which we know is happening.

Awhile back, I had a son in college who came home with an assignment from his openly lesbian, ultra liberal, English Lit.
professor. It was the writings of a black author that contained the most vulgar, raciest, and violent language I ever saw.
I confronted the president of the university, and his reply was; "you may not like it, but she has every right to express it".

reply to post by intrepid


Thank you for your reply.
You seem like one of the nicer ones on here.

The crack down on trolling i feel is well over due, all members should do there best to avoid getting into pointless spits and spats - Take the abortion debate for example, i dont bother posting in those threads any more because its mostly just abuse to and from each side.
As this site gets more and more popular it seems the average IQ level is dropping with it.

Hope this epidemic can be resolved. Would very much like to see ATS returned to its former glory.

Above Top Secret is a privately owned website. If the site owner does not want to allow certain behavior, he can virtually do anything to modify how visitors participate. Visitors also have a choice. If an individual disagrees with the site owner's policies, he or she can participate at a million other sites. Since people do have a million other options, no one can call this a violation of the freedom of speech. Above Top Secret's forum etiquette policies do not stretch across the entire internet; thus, the site owners and moderators are not gods of the world wide web. So, do not think there are no other options.

When you think about this with a little more rationality, the question everyone should be asking is - "Would I act out irrationally within a public environment?" While walking into a public library or school, would you start heckling people because they are different? Even though someone may have an alternative opinion, you should be challenging them on an intellectual level. If the argument cannot be won through tact, do not reduce the conversation into playground banter.

Something else to keep in mind. As you create a thread title, the wording you use can also create anger. Above Top Secret's problem is beyond the thread replies. Once everyone starts acting responsible for thread replies and titles, I think we can evolve this site into a more meaningful realm. Be responsible for your own words. If you get kicked out for being irrational, the only person you can blame for banishment is yourself.

Above Top Secret is one of the best 'conspiracy' sites to exist. Even though it is not the only conspiracy site to exist, Above Top Secret does have a higher standard for visitor participation. Getting banished from this site is like being kicked out of major league baseball. Once you get locked out of the front door, you have to start over in the minor leagues. Personally, I think that would stink to high hell.

During the next thirteen months, US politics will be in everyone's face. Regardless about how hard you try to avoid the subject, political rhetoric and banter will stretch across all media formats. News sites, social forums, social networks, and chat rooms... Oh my! Above Top Secret is not going to be immune. As someone who is only human, I can say with 100% certainty that I will get caught in the flow. Sometimes it will get extremely stressful. Once you feel yourself hitting the edge, take a small hiatus from debate participation. You do not need to defend your honor constantly. Its okay to let something go. Above Top Secret is not moving into another dimension, so it's doors will always be open to welcome you.

Keep things rational. Keep the peace.

Love you all.

Screw you, you hippe communist. Quit censoring me!!

(I would hope I don't need to say this, but I will anyway: I'm just kidding.)

The days of trolling ATS are coming to an end, folks.

Challenge accepted.

Originally posted by TheLoony
reply to post by seagull

 

I call it the way I see it, so in total honesty, I say rubbish. IMO, the 9/11 forum has never been cleaned up, even after repeated warnings. Numerous people there who bring nothing to the discussion except for insults and character attacks yet nothing has been done about these people. I've been around for almost six years and still have never seen action taken against these people. Without the ignore function the 9/11 forum is unreadable yet nothing changes there, the same old people using the same old tired tactics to derail, obfuscate and/or downright attack other members viewpoints.

You won't do anything about the people in there so how is this going to be any different?

etc

So true...The ad homs in the 9/11 sections are blatantly obvious(each&every thread).Nothing happend,ever.I know a lot of people who refuse 2 read or don't trust ATS just because of that.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Not sure what got your feathers ruffled there friend, you demanded an answer as to why your continual "alerts" were going unheeded, a mod responded suggesting that the Alert system is for alerting the mods to infractions, not a tool to silence those you don't want to listen to. I reaffirmed that, and stated how I didn't find the Mods response snarky at all (a CLEAR example of how subjective this will be) I guess that was lost on you as you seem to have some personal issue with me.

Ah! Therein lies the issue. An issue that plagues the best of us and myself is rightly included. You have attributed my interjection as a response of another poster. I never demanded any answers nor were they "continual" in any manner.

I have no qualms and understand the purpose of: the alert system. Myself stepped in to highlight the very subjectivity of the moderation system implemented via this thread. In supporting the policy (which is not bad, but is an open invitiation to subjective oversight), another mod placed a certain snarky remark on the end of a sentence.

"Right. Nuff said!" -- Do you find that appropriate to the point being made by the poster (regardless of their moderator status?) The subjectivity of such is what I question and what I wonder how it will be employed upon the ATS writers.

Let me be clear, friend, i'm not a mod, and the mods need no "defending" from me. I've seen this problem growing and when it comes to an election cycle, it gets worse. It quite literally is impossible to have a conversation, about anything, on ATS as it's a troll fest, political or otherwise. It ruins the discussion, ends with people leaving their threads to die, and makes it hard to follow for those coming in seeing a massive amount "posts removed" warnings.

Beyond all of that, no rules are being changed. They are merely giving everyone advanced warning that the free for all is soon over, and the T&C will be fully enforced.

If you don't like the T&C you can find your way to another site that allows trolling in all it's glory.

Most of us, however, would like to keep the site running, flowing, and fun to use.

As I have seen this problem -- the problem of being able to actually comprehend and critically think about what is being said. Since you are replying completely out of context and have replaced me as someone else, I will leave it at that.

I questioned a response from a moderator that I felt was snarky and left nothing of substance to the conversation or point being made other than "I am a mod and I know best" attitude. Yet that very attitude is what they wish to stamp out vigorously.

I debate and discuss here with great passion and besides some early postings and some not so sober nights in which I admit I should not have logged on, I remain a fairly objective person (granted the inherent subjectivity of the human condition) when I post.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


I understand that's your perspective.

It's not mine. And while it's not a biggy to me, I don't appreciate it being labeled childish.

Lots of literature over the centuries has used such a tool--and NOT just children's literature.

AS it is, I use several accurate phrases to illustrate who the SElectee in the Whitehouse is--his preferences, values etc. instead of just one word modifying his name. I don't particularly prefer to type out "Marxist Kenyan traitor, pathological Narcissist, compulsive liar" but it's workable.

Originally posted by nightstalker46
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I agree with the idea of a Satire forum with a slightly less restrictive set of rules, simply because by its nature, satire is almost never PC.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. AND AMEN TO THAT!

"PC" will be shown to have been a major beachfront in the assault to the death of free expression and free exchange of ideas.

Satire has a long history of potent influential and rather witty, humorous and important communicating in often very trying contexts on very critical issues.

It seems tragic to me that ATS with it's motto about deny ignorance arbitrarily blocks out A MAJOR WAY TO DENY IGNORANCE through the creative, witty use of satire. That's dreadfully sad to annoying to me.

Practically any statement of a political nature tends to step on someones toes.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Particularly those toes with ultra thin skins.

Our era is noted for folks looking for an extremely exaggerated excuse to BE OFFENDED.

How about a 2ndary motto: GROW UP SUFFICIENTLY TO BE SOMETHING BESIDES IGNORANT!

If you can't stand the heat--stay the blazes well away from political discussions! Sheesh!

Sometimes it seems like the mandate is becoming for ATS to be a cozy little afternoon tea of former Sunday School teachers--all dottering old maids who faint when someone dares to say "bloomers."

God have mercy. Some folks must have taken all the Bible verses out of their Bibles about donkey dongs, dung, a pit of vipers, white-washed tombs etc. Where does the mandate to be prissy and inoffensive come from?

Seems to me if someone's NOT offended on such a broad forum as this, THEN NOTHING OF SIGNIFICANT SUBSTANCE IS BEING WRITTEN!

Save us from the prissy sanctifiers. Not saying that all are . . . some are.

If a statement isn't personally directed but challenges another individuals sense of decorum, is that thread going to be removed. It appears that this approach can become terribly subjective.

Yeah. I've seen that far too many times to count, imho. And given the majority of mods being moderately to seriously hostile to Christianity and Christian perspectives, you can guess what has tended to get slapped down hardest, most often, most quickly.

I also believe that the mod who stated that most of these infractions are not deliberate, so if a thread is flagged, why not allow the poster an opportunity to re-edit the (offensive)" wording", without penalty, without deleting the entire scope of the message.

I'd sure vote for that--with some sort of reasonable time limit on it.

Are we heading toward a "just the facts mam" type of forum without criticizing the implication or opinion of what those facts mean or how the facts affect any group or person.

INDEED. Sterile polite exchanges of shallow phoney blather . . . that'll make for a REAL interesting forum. NOT!

A lot of us believe that political correctness is running amuck, and does indeed stifle free expression and debate.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Not just stifles it--SMOTHERS IT WITH GREAT PREJUDICE! SHEESH!

I would also wonder how much of your (MODs) decision is being influenced by the governments attempts to censure the internet, which we know is happening.

I doubt much of that is going on at ATS . . . YET. I think the values of many mods that happen to be soooo in concert with the values of the globalists just naturally ends up looking that way.

Much appreciate your kind and thoughtful response.

I'd SURE LIKE TO SEE A SATIRE FORUM. Even if ATS spun off a different website as a satire website--whatever it took to make it workable, I'd still be for it.

Let the thin-skinned insecure folks so given to LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO BE OFFENDED enjoy their afternoon teas with the old spinsters retired from Sunday School teaching.

Sigh.