SOCIAL: Your great-grandfather used cocaine, so why cant you?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The govornment's job is not to play nanny and make sure we do good things to ourselves. The govornment's job is to keep hostile foreigners out of the country, and keep us from killing one another. It is not the govornment's job to tell us what is good for us. That is the choice we make on our own.

At last, someone who understands!

The only legit. function of a government is to protect it's peoples life and property. The only right the government has to intervene in our lives is when we do harm to someone else.

Thank you for that wonderfull display of reason. Just when I begin to loose hope in society, someone always shows up to rekindle my spirit.

Found some new numbers.

According to a Libertarian Party handout I purchased for distribution the federal government spent $18 billion fighting the War on Drugs in 2001. More than 19,000 state and local police officers work full-time on drug cases. The article goes on to state that "despite all this money and firepower, 82% of high school seniors say getting marijuana is "fairly" or "very" easy - a number that hasn't budged in 20 years."


And how is this one (same source): "In 2000, for example, 734,497 Americans were arrested on marijuana-related charges. That same year, only 625,243 violent criminals were arrested for murder, rape, robbery, or aggravated assault, according to FBI figures. In other words, the War on Drugs is making your family less safe because police spend their time arresting marijuana smokers instead of apprehending brutal thugs."

Sounds like we really have our prioritys screwed up as a society.


Here is a question I want to ask any of you who are against an end to the War on Drugs. What would you do to get rid of the criminal element that surrounds drug prohibition and how do you propose we actually put an end to drug abuse in our society?

Moved post

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Amuk]

While the Libertarian position is most attractive to me logically, practically it has raised some doubts in my mind.

Does it raise doubt about it's successfulness? No, I'm pretty sure it would do far more good than harm (then maybe we could clean up some of our crime dens, i.e. inner cities).

But it does bring up the point, in my mind, "Is this a real possibility practically of getting passed?"

The short answer is NO. But why?

The answer is simple, we are a progressive country and do not like to look back regardless of the cost.

Examples that will more than likely never be overturned:

- 21 Year-old drinking age
- Many MADD supported drinking laws
- Legality of attempting to commit suicide

etc, etc

The problem is that people are unwilling to allow short-term side effects to reach long term improvement, even if those improvements are substantial.

Case in point, the entire "Wasted Vote Disease" thread. This is the very reason that no one wants you to vote third party. They need slight change NOW rather than breaking the mold and shooting for long-term goals of lasting change.

It's all the same and compounding the problem is the American Way.

Hey thanks, great point.

So do you feel that working to change the way people value the outcome of their vote is more important for now than the actual issues themselves? And do you think it is likely we will see a widespread change in the reason people cast their vote?

By the way, I dont think the idea of an end to prohibition is as far fetched as you think it is, although I am not expecting major change anytime soon. We are in for a long war against the War on Drugs.

Old timer mechanics used to clean their hands off with leaded gasoline, too, but we have better sense nowadays, or at least more information that leads us to know that it is a bad idea.

Is you want to ruin your cardiovascular system, destroy your sinuses and cause your penis to shrivel up, go right on ahead. Just don't expect me to agree that it should be legalized. I'm struggling hard enough with the legalized crap - cigerettes, to think anything else stupid ought to have the societal stamp of approval on it by making it legal.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Old timer mechanics used to clean their hands off with leaded gasoline, too, but we have better sense nowadays, or at least more information that leads us to know that it is a bad idea.

Is you want to ruin your cardiovascular system, destroy your sinuses and cause your penis to shrivel up, go right on ahead. Just don't expect me to agree that it should be legalized. I'm struggling hard enough with the legalized crap - cigerettes, to think anything else stupid ought to have the societal stamp of approval on it by making it legal.

Ummmm....yeah. Thanks for the points, but I replied to you weeks ago the last time you said the SAME EXACT THINGS and you failed to respond back. Please look at the last responce I made to you. I look forward to your responce to that.

Originally posted by blacksheepmuse

Right on - sorry didnt mean to quote all that this is my first post here took me a while to figure (sort of) out how to do it.....anyways, ket me tell you the REAL reason they make drugs illegal. If you ask them this they will obviously deny it. Drugs open your mind, broaden your perspective and as a result you see a bigger truth. It makes you rebel against an injust system, and overall you just see the governement for what it is. They dont want this coz they need the sheep easy to control - if we are all rebelling the rich would not stay rich and their #ed up ways would not be allowed to carry on as they are. Please to put this into perspective, consider they lied about 9-11, the CIA killed John Lennon (he was an eye opener in every sense), they hide UFO knowledgs and technology, and they oppress our minds with media, money, and tv propenagnda. Also some now suspect they lied about the apollo missions... check out the www.DisclosureProject.org for more about the fight on ufo coverups, and my site www.newRevolution.bravehost.com for a bit more on all of what I've said. their emphasis is "control, control, control" - though they would not admit it - you have to see it - thats what drugs do, thats why they are illegal. If you dont believe me, research the answer before you reply. Go on....

Actually, if you want my honest opinion of why they keep drugs illegal, I believe it is because organized crime lords and Columbian drug czars are bribing and giving money to keep it illegal.

Think about it. During the 1920's, 60% of Al Capone's income from crime came from bootlegging. When Prohibition ended, that means his whole gang lost 60% of their profits.

Oraganized crime has a huge stake in making sure drugs stay illegal. As long as they remain so, the black market figures keep their overbloated profits. Legalizing it would cut a huge chunk of their business.

So, I believe personally that many mobsters and druglords bribe and pressure officals and politicians to keep it illegal so they can maintain their own regulation and overinflated profit margins. Organized crime has a long history of bribing and pressuring govornment officals in many matters, I dont doubt this is any different.

Of course, this is my theory.

I think that long range planning has gone by the wayside. The results of our wants is immediate, we can get what we want in minutes and getting faster like 7-11 and McDonalds are business models for everything.

People see what is in front of their faces unless it involves their lives directly. I think we have almost no choice but to fight as hard as we can against the fall, but it is inevitable in the end.

Could it happen? Yes. Do I think it will? No.

Why change what we have. What we have is quick and easy. As time goes on, the idea of breaking out of you "comfort zone" becomes more difficult.

Everything at the click of a button, 347 channels of action with surprise "twists you have to see to believe". Reality is becoming scripted, and I for one am sad, but will do what I can because I believe that it's the effort rather than the outcome that makes the differences.

Is you want to ruin your cardiovascular system, destroy your sinuses and cause your penis to shrivel up, go right on ahead. Just don't expect me to agree that it should be legalized. I'm struggling hard enough with the legalized crap - cigerettes, to think anything else stupid ought to have the societal stamp of approval on it by making it legal.

I'm guessing that you are referring to marijuana? If so, do you have any clinical research to support these claims? I didn't think so.
People have been using marijuana for tens of thousands of years and somehow the race continued to reproduce even with "shriveled penis' "
Don't believe the hype.
As I stated before, I know quite a few daily "pot smokers" who have been using for twenty to forty years and they have no signs of "destroyed sinus' ", erectile dysfunction or cardiovascular disease. These are lies told by the alcohol and tobacco industries to keep the Reefer Madness myths going and ensure their profit margins.

As far as something "stupid having the societal stamp of approval" how about cars that can go faster than the speed limit, McDonalds food, sharp objects of any kind and a host of household chemicals? Obviously, people who care to indulge in drug use have no interest in "societal approval". If that were the way things worked than EVERYONE in America (perhaps the world) would smoke cigarettes and be an alcoholic because these things are legal.

Kind of silly but it's the same logic you have used here.

I know a "friend" who shall remain nameless who has smoked pot and even used stronger stuff every now and then. He also drinks moonshine modorately and has done all the above for about 45 years and still managed to fight for his country, hold down one and sometimes two or three jobs at a time, raise four kids, do charity work, help trouble kids with martial arts training, been married to the same woman for over 20 years, active in hometown politics, etc. He has not experenced ANY of the problems mentioned.

Modorate use of drugs will not harm ANYBODY.

You can eat your self to death if you dont have any self control does that mean food should only be ate under government supervision? Where does the Government control of what you do stop? How much of your life are you willing to hand over to some faceless paper pusher in Washington?

[edit on 8-10-2004 by Amuk]

We should have the right to handle our own bodies as long as it does nothing to endanger anyone else's property, liberty, or health.

I hope that I see the legalization of drugs at some point in my lifetime. It makes perfect sense, and criminalization only hurts us more in the long run.

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by cyberdude78
This is an interesting point. But I think I have the awnser to the question. Most drugs are illegal now because they have be scientifically proven to be harmful.

So next you are gonna put people in prison for 30 years because they eat cheese burgers?

They have been proven to be harmful.

How about booze?

Should you go to prison for that?

Where does it stop?

And how many people under the influence of cheeseburgers commit crimes that they would normally have never committed with a clear head? Can the same be said for coc aine? Marijuana? Alcohol? Heroin?

Show me a news report of a cheeseburger-induced shooting rampage that's destroyed the lives of innocent families.

Show me a car accident where a man or woman under the influence of too many cheeseburgers has taken the innocent life of a child or an entire family because they chose to drive under the influence.

Show me, and I'll relent. Otherwise, I'd say you have your answer.