At what point do you leave?

I agree with points of both FissionSurplus and Shadowwalker.

I have worked in state hospitals where half of the patients are institutionalized due to lack of mental capabilities and the other half are institutionalized because they are criminally insane or found incompetent to stand trial.

If I were stuck with the people who can't help themselves, I'd do everything I could to ensure survival for the mobile ones. Open up all of the cafeteria facilities, bust open the canteen facilities, then make sure I lock the outer gate behind me so they can roam the grounds but have little chance of escaping into the real world.

The people who need total care are not surviving at all, they have everything done for them. There's no way you will be able to care for them on your own. Honestly, your choice for these folks is to let them starve to death or let them go peacefully, if you see what I mean.

If I were stuck with the folks "behind the fence", I wouldn't do anything at all to help them. Mostly because I'd be running for my life. I'd have to run faster than them to the sally ports, let myself through without anyone noticing, and put them on lockdown. Sure, some of the people there would need help... but I am not going to let myself be trapped with 300 rapists, murderers, arsonists, etc for any length of time.

Now, I have also worked in mental health (inpatient) hospital settings. You can bet in this situation that 99.9% of people are mobile, can fend for themselves, and would understand what is going on. The people who are depressed will either snap out if it, see it as an opportunity to end their lives, or just sit staring at a wall. Can't help those who won't help themselves. Schizophrenics off their meds can be either harmless or very dangerous. That call would be up to the practitioner if you want to release them or not. In this setting, you'd sit down and tell everyone what is going on, hand out meds, and head out.

Group home settings are all different, so it depends on what type of patients and the number of patients you are in charge of what you can/need to do.


That said, you need to go look at your facility's emergency plans.

You should have already been trained in the basics, but you really need to see what plan of action would be put in place if you were in any extreme predicament.

Directors and office staff will be a lot more concerned with saving themselves and/or their possessions than patients, so you can't really depend on anyone else to do the right thing in this situation.

Oh, and I'd leave as soon as I could implement my plan of action, which would be as soon as I realized that no emergency personnel were coming to help.

I have looked at the company manual for any guidlines on the subject and there are none at all, I have thought about bringing it up but I don't wanna look like a paranoid fella cos I will end up getting sent to the staff unit for us that loose the plot due to the work. (wait a mo have I lost the plot for even thinking my question?) lol

reply to post by boymonkey74


as soon as you need to look after your family

In the event a major national emergency (nuclear attack, war, major uprisings,Meteorite etc. etc.) The governor of the state your in would call on the Prisons and other Government facilities with orders to evacuate or release all persons under the supervision of the state. Legally they have too, since they cannot guarantee safety of Workers, or Persons under their supervision.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I have looked at the company manual for any guidlines on the subject and there are none at all, I have thought about bringing it up but I don't wanna look like a paranoid fella cos I will end up getting sent to the staff unit for us that loose the plot due to the work. (wait a mo have I lost the plot for even thinking my question?) lol

I'd say it's time to start looking for a new job.

Personally I would make sure I left before others. But where will you go to? Its not going to be a meteor strike but rather a slow boiling of the frog scenraio, which means many wont know when to bug out and they will be caught in the war. At which time it will be too late to leave without being rounded up.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Leave them. In a post-SHTF world their family would have to take care of them, or they would die. If they have no family, they would die. It's no time to argue with the most basic laws of nature.

One of the things that has been speculated about in a true SHTF situation is would law enforcement personnel stay on duty. That can be spread a little further to medical personnel, firemen, communications and power workers etc.

I think some would stay and others would go to take care of their family. It's a difficult moral dilemma for those people who have jobs like that.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I think since you took responsibility as a Healthcare worker you are expected to stay with them and help as many of them escape. Now you will need to evaluated who would be the killers and who would just go out in society and blend in as well. I felt bad when Katrina hit and there were elders left during flood to parish. I was like wow what kind of health care workers were those. I know you are interested in your personal survial but find it wrong to just leave them try and help as many asyou can. I have been pondering this over the last year how the mental locks and prison locks will be IF the electro field is distrubed enouh where these facilities are unlocked and some individuals are free to roam in a lawness world. GOOD QUESTION and good luck

reply to post by boymonkey74


Its hard to say it but there dead already if SHTF. Those prepping like myself will have a hard time let alown those that have nothing to Survive off of (food, water, protection)

This ones easy for me. head home and take care of the loved ones.

Maybe this is part of the problem with all the humanitarian crap. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying go kill people or what not, I am all for helping people in need, but there is a natural balance here. I know I will be flamed but lets look at it a different way. I tend to look at things from a survival of the fittest aspect, that is my bias.

I feel for those patients that have to live the sort of life that they do, I really do. In the natural order of things animals that are born with handicaps do not make it in life why should humans really be any different. I understand that we now have the technology to save peoples lives and that too is a good thing. But at what point does saving a handicapped individual become more cruel than to let the person die. At what point is it more cruel to medicate an individual and keep them locked up in a hospital the rest of their lives versus letting them die. At what point is letting the person die more humane than keeping them alive.

I should probably also clarify what I mean by handicapped in this context. In this context the ones I am referring to are the ones that have absolutely no capacity to care for themselves and is totally dependent on others.

To answer your question though. I think if you have the noble intentions for caring for the sick then you also have to accept a few things on your part. In a SHTF scenario your number one concern is to take care of yourself first, otherwise how can you take care of others. You do have a choice and I do not think either possibility is a wrong one but each does have its consequences. In my opinion, in a SHTF scenario, you leave when the situation starts putting yourself at risk by being in that position. Realistically speaking, those that you would be trying to save and help would also at the same time be working against you. How can you gather enough resources to care for them and yourself as well, especially if those individuals have no capacity to use the bathroom by them self.

We all have to remember that in a SHTF event, what we consider moral and ethical will change when our own lives are on the line and when every movement means life and death.

No way would I let violent, mentally ill people out.

Imagine that you did and one of these people killed someone? Image if it was a child they killed. Now imagine it being your child ... maybe they followed you home.

If the SHTF for real and it was painfully obvious that there was no turning back anytime soon...I'd try to humanely kill the patients that have proven to be dangerous, otherwise leave them locked up. My first duty would be to the innocents out there. Non-violent patients I would let go one at a time, with as equal of rations as possible. Then I'd get to my family knowing I filled my obligation.

All of this is infinitely easier said then done - I'm glad I'm not in this position!

Maybe those gps bracelets should be in place just in case then you place the gps on them and can track them from that point on....

You go take care of yourself and leave the place unlocked.

At this point it is each person for themselves.

The rule of law has changed.

What happens to them at this point is their own responsibly.

Sane or insane.

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
You go take care of yourself and leave the place unlocked.

At this point it is each person for themselves.

The rule of law has changed.

What happens to them at this point is their own responsibly.

Sane or insane.

And what if your SPIRITUALLY observed for these actions by higher ups checking to see how well you cope when in tight squeezez do you just fen for yourself or others as well. just sayen

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I think your right here, I don't follow any religion but I don't know if I could just leave them, the guilt would be to much.
Reading your opinions I think I would have to stay and at least try to care for them and yes I know that would maybe mean death for me.
If it was a teacher looking after children or a HC worker looking after the old I think many of your opinions would be different.
Like I said I understand my work mates saying they would leave because of their family's but I have no family so I would stay...better me than someone with kids I suppose...
Or I may just get married again so I have a good reason to leave lol (wait a mo scrap that already had 3 wife's I would prefer death then the nagging jk)
Cheers all BM

In reality, if the shtf and there was enough notice for the employees of a State run mental facility to leave, you would would be sent away as well. You would never be faced with making the decision. The government would send the Military to take care of it in whatever way is protocol.

reply to post by moondancer811

I don't know about this, Mental Health is always the last thing on the goverments minds, even though 1 in 3 people are effected by mental health in their lifetimes the funding is only 8% of the NHS budget (it was only 4% a few years back).
I have seen medical doctors/medical nurses treat mentally ill people really badly (They dismiss whatever they say because they are mentally ill) I have even been treated badly at a hospital because I work with the mentally ill.
The stigma is still here and I have heard a nurse say that mental health nursing is not "real" nursing.
Come to think of it I do agree with you in one aspect that they would send the army to sort out the problem of the violent mentally ill people but I think they would just shoot em .
Oh and moon dancer I love your hair

reply to post by boymonkey74


I hear you boymonkey74 and understand. I am not saying try and be a super hero or nothing like that nor to make illogical decisions. I am just saying that they should be cared for too by those professionals in that field and not just be prejudged and abandon because some feel their life timers are low. I also am not saying to just behave in a positive way due to being observed from above you should act how you would normally act. Personally if I was in the Healthcare fields of work I would expect myself to possess a level of hightened compassion for others to persue that field or work. That hightened level of compasison is needed especially during the periods or HARSH. I really think how the hospitials will dael with the issues potential issues. And hope others in power are considering them as well.

reply to post by boymonkey74


That just made me think of something else. I wonder, how many of the people that are confined or otherwise would actually be better off if something like this happened. I think, for some, if they survive the initial SHTF wave, after a couple of weeks of withdrawal symptoms, those "crazy" people will suddenly become sane after they get the meds out of their system that has been forced upon them.