Report: Dozens of U.S. spies captured in Lebanon and Iran

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


In your opinion, what criteria does someone have to meet in order to deserve punishment so harsh that it makes a lifetime of hard labour seem like "nothing" in comparison?


reply to post by xuenchen

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by xuenchen
There's a rumor of a Syria no fly zone.

Maybe the Spy catch was planned to make people think all the spies are out.

Maybe the spy catch is fabricated ?

I don't understand even a little bit of this. How could rolling up a few agents in Lebanon and Iran make anyone think all the spies in Syria had been arrested? Why would Hezbollah and Iran do this?

Hezbollah and Iran are not the ones I was talking about.

But the capture of these 'spies' was announced months ago by the head of Hezbollah and the Iranian Intelligence minister.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Hezbollah and Iran are not the ones I was talking about.

This thread is about Hezbollah and Iran, and the spies they arrested. If another discussion has developed, I must have missed it, and apologize. Maybe you should start another thread for the spies that were arrested in Syria?

reply to post by Soshh

In your opinion, what criteria does someone have to meet in order to deserve punishment so harsh that it makes a lifetime of hard labour seem like "nothing" in comparison?

Personally, in my opinion, I would never personally torture anyone. I'm just a normal regular person. I do know that leaders of countries don't enjoy catching alleged spy rings in their countries. That being said being caught spying can be a very serious offense in most countries. These offenses usually come with harsh punishment if caught, if not death.

I do am not a "supporter" of these methods but I know they happen. These spies most likely knew the consequences as well. If you voluntarily put yourself in an enemy country as a spy there is a chance you will get caught and you are responsible for your actions and must pay the consequences.

I think you took my post out of context, as a few others in this thread have done as well.

I hate to say it, but I told you so. The CIA and Mossad are so deep undercover that they have a part in almost everything that goes on in that region and discoveries just like this help prove it.

The report explains that they are scrambling. This must be very embarrassing. I hope these spies get the book thrown at them. A lifetime of hard labor sounds fair for me. Imagine if some Iranian spies got caught on American soil, Washington would declare war LOL.

Yea.. lol.. really funny stuff.

All countries with working governments have spies. You are truly ignorant if you don't think there are spies of all sorts in America. In fact, with the ease of access into the United States, there are probably more here, than in many other countries. Sometimes they are caught, and no, we don't "declare war" on them.

But I knew someone would post about this, and I also knew they would make us out to be the "bad guys" once again. I honestly don't even know why some of you even live in this country. You are so anti-American about EVERY facet of life here, it truly baffles me why you don't just move out of the country.

reply to post by fleabit


First of all, I'm not Anti-American.

Second, I'm not even American.

And you called ME ignorant?

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by xuenchen
Hezbollah and Iran are not the ones I was talking about.

This thread is about Hezbollah and Iran, and the spies they arrested. If another discussion has developed, I must have missed it, and apologize. Maybe you should start another thread for the spies that were arrested in Syria?

reply to post by Soshh


yes yes i know.

but this current article from Haaretz is a little thin on that fact.

and the timing of the article about a no fly zone over Syria and the timing of the Haaretz article is the point.

why would a rekindled article about CIA agents being caought months ago even be released again?

the Haaretz article makes the CIA look bad probably by design.

i wonder why an Israeli source would even present that info?

the whole thing is suspicious and may be linked to the "announcement" of a Syrian no fly zone all of a sudden.

IMO, putting two and two together.

again, it's all about public perception and public opinion.

i think many assume the CIA is superior to Iran intel.

The Haaretz article is turning that thinking around for a distinct purpose .... whatever that may be.


ETA: what spies were caught in Syria?

I doubt the intelligence for this coup came from a single source - more likely it was accumulated over the years and decided to leave the spies in place so as to feed them mis-info.

My point is, why take them all now? Does this suggest Iran is planning something imminent that's so big it can't risk having those spies around - perhaps an offensive on Israel?

reply to post by McGinty


I highly doubt Iran is planning an outright offensive on Israel. But that's just my opinion.

It would be suicide for them to attack Israel. Regardless of their "religious leader" they're not that fanatic about it.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Soshh

 

I think you took my post out of context, as a few others in this thread have done as well.

On the first page, you said:

They deserve what's coming to them and you know it.

You confirmed that you said this on the last page, where you also said:

Hard labor is nothing compared to what they will most likely get.

So do they deserve it or not? I didn't take anything out of context mate and I'm not misrepresenting what you said either. They are very simple seperate statements made within a single context. The issue, if there is one, is that you didn't quite mean exactly what you said. I thought as much before I asked the question but I wanted to be certain and to be a bit of an arse in the process. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that you believe that such punishment is deserved but that it is to be expected.

Personally, in my opinion, I would never personally torture anyone. I'm just a normal regular person. I do know that leaders of countries don't enjoy catching alleged spy rings in their countries. That being said being caught spying can be a very serious offense in most countries. These offenses usually come with harsh punishment if caught, if not death.

I do am not a "supporter" of these methods but I know they happen. These spies most likely knew the consequences as well. If you voluntarily put yourself in an enemy country as a spy there is a chance you will get caught and you are responsible for your actions and must pay the consequences.

Don't worry, I don't think that you're a psychopath. What irritates me is the amount of flippant comments regarding torture in this thread, when it is likely (and I would hope) that the people making these comments would be disturbed for life if they were ever made to witness such extreme cruelty for any length of time.

When you think of a CIA agent (i.e. not a member of CIA), what springs to mind? All intelligence services conduct unwholesome activities but CIA, like any intelligence service, is first and foremost an information-gathering capacity.

I went off on a tangent here illustrating the above, but it carried on for several paragraphs and I would prefer not to leave such an enormous post. What I was getting at and eventually got around to, was that these shadowy 'agents' can be essentially ordinary people and the reasons why they choose to become 'agents' can be perfectly reasonable by anyone's standards. Obviously if you are trying to gather information on an extremely vicious group of people, then the best people to go to are people who are associated with them and people closely associated with extremely vicious people are often not particularly nice individuals themselves, but that is not the case for every single 'agent'.

For example, many people provided information and acted on behalf of the British government in Northern Ireland following atrocities committed by the IRA. People who quite rightly thought that going about the place shooting and blowing up folk almost arbitrarily would make a serious problem worse. Think devout Republicans who would have previously spat at British troops on the street, who had their views altered by, for example, witnessing events such as this on the telly.

Does a woman deserve to be bludgeoned to death by several men with hammers, simply because she thought that what the IRA did here was wrong and because she wanted to help fight this kind of brutality? You can argue that such a person is foolish or reckless or that they are naive to believe that information will be used exclusively for good, but it is absolutely commendable that they would go to an intelligence unit with information and good intentions despite what could potentially happen to them.

This is within the context of operations against a militia group, but you can appreciate how it can be applied to other areas where information is needed. I would not even begin to suggest that 'spies' are generally good people but merely that they are people, some bad and some good. You may not agree with what any particular intelligence agency does, but you should direct your ire at them and not people that you do not only not know, but you do not know anything about.

reply to post by Soshh


They do deserve what's coming to them, that doesn't mean I support it. There is a huge difference. You're logic puzzles me.

What does hard labor have to do with anything they might get. That would be a generous punishment considering what is probably coming to them by the people who captured them. Just because I pointed out that the people who captured them will probably torture them doesn't mean I support it. Once again I'm puzzled by your logic because it does not pertain to what you're saying.

You are accusing me of saying things I did not say, even as you quote these things you claim I said, the quotes you provide to not say what you portray them to say. In other words you are just outright lying or we are having a huge misunderstanding. I'm hoping it's just a misunderstanding.

reply to post by Soshh


I want to make sure you understand what I mean by this statement I made:

They do deserve what's coming to them, that doesn't mean I support it. There is a huge difference. You're logic puzzles me.

Here is an example of this logic being applied. My brother is in the military and was sent to Afghanistan on a combat mission. I love him dearly but knew he was fighting for an illegitimate cause. It was terrifying to think what he may come across but deep down I knew what ever happened was his fault for being there. Sure he was just doing his job but so were the Nazis right?

Anyways he got wounded in an IED blast but ended up being okay, he got real lucky. His colleague wasn't so lucky.

I didn't support what happened to him, but he kind of deserved it for being there. Do you understand now?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Soshh

 

They do deserve what's coming to them, that doesn't mean I support it. There is a huge difference.

That is a moot point which is increasingly irrelevant due to the fact that I didn't say that you supported it.

You're logic puzzles me.

Then you're far too easily puzzled.

You are accusing me of saying things I did not say, even as you quote these things you claim I said, the quotes you provide to not say what you portray them to say. In other words you are just outright lying.

I'm not claiming that you said those things; I copy/pasted them. That is what you said. Now please explain the hidden meanings behind those two seemingly explicitly clear statements.

reply to post by Soshh


There is no hidden meaning.

I explained the obvious meaning in the post directly above yours.

Why must you assume there is a hidden meaning even after I took the time to explain it in extra detail for you?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Soshh

 

There is no hidden meaning.

I explained the obvious meaning in the post directly above yours.

Why must you assume there is a hidden meaning even after I took the time to explain it in extra detail for you?

You didn't explain anything. You went off on one because you completely misunderstood me. You're puzzled; bless.

Hit "home" on your keyboard, start reading my posts again and don't forget to engage your brain.

I guess the cia allowed these so-called cia angents to be caught as they are proberly fake angents planted to release false infomation to the iranians.The cia does this all the time.Lets send the iranian angents on a wild goose chase while the real cia angents get on with there real work.Some other people are employed by the cia to do low grade work and when the cia is finished with them.They let the iranians capture them.Theses low grade spys are not payed much and do not know much so they will not have much to say when there tortured by the iranians.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Funny thing is, finding Israeli spies in the US is almost a monthly occurrence and no action is ever taken, spies sent back home with no punishment (gee wonder why that is). Makes me wonder if Iran is really the enemy at all. Methinks no.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I want to make sure you understand what I mean by this statement I made:

There was no meaning behind it. You were simply spouting hateful words.

I've been there, young one - said a lot of things that really had no meaning behind them other than "I want to say something that sounds as extremely awesome as I am."

Here is an example of this logic being applied. My brother is in the military and was sent to Afghanistan on a combat mission. I love him dearly but knew he was fighting for an illegitimate cause.

Now, now, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

What is he fighting for?

Why is it illegitimate?

It was terrifying to think what he may come across but deep down I knew what ever happened was his fault for being there. Sure he was just doing his job but so were the Nazis right?

Again, let's not get too far ahead of our own thought process.

Let's take the case of the OWS protesters. It is their fault if they get hit in the head with an improperly thrown OC canister, right? Or it is their fault if they get kicked and beaten after they are in cuffs? They were there, challenging the cops, and are therefor at fault for anything that happened, right?

You can't invert it, either - it's not the fault of the police that there are protesters charging the police line.

The police have training and limitations on the types of force they can use and when they can use it. They are accountable to that standard set by their department and by legislators. Similarly - protesters are held to the standard of the law.

In this case, you can't shift all blame onto your brother (or the military) for anything that happens to him in the line of duty.

Anyways he got wounded in an IED blast but ended up being okay, he got real lucky. His colleague wasn't so lucky.

I didn't support what happened to him, but he kind of deserved it for being there. Do you understand now?

You seem to think we all misunderstood you this entire time. You have been understood. You have simply failed to realize that we are telling you that it's a junk way of thinking.

Who made the IED that injured your brother?

Why is it your brother's fault that they made it and brought it to the checkpoint (I presume that's where it was)?

The answer isn't simple.

I've been to other countries that differ greatly in terms of culture as a member of the U.S. Armed Forces. Every country is a little different, and every region within that country is a little different. Seoul is a little more antsy about American presence than the Pusan area is - reason being that us Navy guys aren't driving around in Humvees with little Koreans darting out in front of us (who then get run over and serve as the start of a protest). But most of the people there are glad we are there, and absolutely flattered when we take the time to try and learn their language (they spend half their life trying to learn ours - so it's humbling to them to have us trying to learn theirs).

It's different from many of the Middle-Eastern nations. Most of the people, there, are glad to have our support in their efforts to develop a government..... they still have a lot to learn about that - and, honestly, their society is based a little too much around submission for democracy to take off and thrive..... but the overwhelming majority are not hostile (even if they disapprove).

Then you have the crazies who just like to piss in everyone else's corn-flakes. They believe in killing and/or blowing up people who disagree with them (in a nutshell). It's not just our military that is the target - rival denominations of Islam, political leaders/groups, and rival shopping districts are all justifiable targets (though this list is not all-inclusive). In some cases... they harass someone's family and then say: "we'll leave them alone if you walk with this package to that checkpoint."

We can discuss the merits of our presence there all day. The fact of the matter is that, where we are being successful in those regions, the quality of life is considerably improved over what it was before our presence was there. Many of us in the military see that, and take on the risk to our own lives in an attempt to make that available to more people.

True - it doesn't always work like we want it to. It is not always as effective as it could be... and it can be argued that it is not worth the cost to our own nation. You can also criticize the way contractors are exploiting spending for the war.

But it is no mark against your brother to stand up and take that risk. The risk he encounters is separate from the corruption that is present about the system.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Lol, I have always been "calling" for the CIA to be disbanded, they are so damn corrupt, they certainly do not have the intrests of the USA at their core, and people who think they do are seriously misguided individuals, rofl.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
CIA spies aren't regular soldiers. They are criminals carrying out crimes against humanity and deserve to be punished if caught. End of story.

Really, Ace? Crimes against humanity?

Would you (or any of the other rocket scientists that starred your post), care to point out just exactly what crimes against humanity are being committed?

reply to post by Aim64C


I want you to know I only read the first line of your post where you accused me of using hateful words. After reading that I moved on to the next post. Please quote my hateful words.

I hope you spent a long while typing that post and realize how much time you wasted typing to me just to have me not even read it.

Please don't expec me to waste my time reading your full length essay when you start by accusing me of using hateful words when I have done nothing of the sort. Just because you don't agree wih my opinion it does not mean it's hateful.