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Can an Observer die?

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posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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In the scientific debate about life and death, the simple question needs to be asked:

CAN AN OBSERVER CEASE OBSERVING?

I looked through the scientific literature and there's zero evidence that an Observer can die. By definition an Observer observes.

So either there has to be an afterlife or if Many Worlds is true then the Observer will always observe a universe where they continue observing.

So a suicide bomber goes to blow themselves up, they will always observe the universe where the trigger didn't work and they were arrested or got away. Or the bomb went off and they survived. This is because it's impossible to observe a universe where they have ceased observing.

The problem with quantum immortality in many worlds is aging. There would have to be a universe where people live for thousands of years. You can get around this by saying a 90 year old man dies in one universe and wakes up in a universe where he's 30. He then says, I had a dream where I was a 90 year old man on my death bed.

I support an afterlife because of things like near death experiences, psychic ability, telepathy, ghosts and more. It just makes sense in the context of an Observer continuing to Observe. There has to be something an Observer continues to observe.




posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 

What do you mean by "Observer"? Sounds very intresting but atm i cant get starcraft out of my mind when i hear that word hah. I do agree w the afterlife. If you meet a real psychic its amazing. I met a very well known psychic and he blew my mind!



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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if you talk about multiple universe than the term observer only qualifies for just one universe where an observer is observing.

in case he dies he stops observing, but that does not necessarily mean he would die in an alternate universe.

however the multiple universe (if they exist) would not allow to exchange information in a way that an observer would notice.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 

Please pardon my ignorance, but what the heck are you talking about?
The required "line 2".
And for anyone who might be interested in reading it, here's line 3!



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by TMJ1972
 


I disagree since one universe starts from a singularity that has not time for an observer to exist is has to be outside of the singularity and that would permit it to observe several universes (or just one).

Time only starts after the singularity that generates the universe.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


Why do you persist with this notion that the observer is consciousness?



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


Since the ultimate observer, if it exists, is not human you can not ascertain if he can die or not, we can at best probably establish that our universe will reach an end at some point, entropy.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


there is no evidence that quantum phenonemon are true at a macro level



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Panic2k11
 


how can the universe/god die ?
the universe/god is eternal



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Interesting concept OP


Nice to see philosophy, and science butting heads, however as an observer doesn't have to take human form i.e when measuring at the quantum level, there are certain specifics our instruments cannot measure/ observe, which does seem to hint at awareness of particles on a fundamental level, yet it also means observation doesn't require a human for these imeasurable events to become coy.

Conciousnous could very well be present, and reside within everything, just because a chair can't talk doesn't mean it isn't aware, we can only observe what we understand.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by maryhinge
 


Nothing is eternal, infinite is only a mathematical concept it does not exist in reality.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Again, there's no scientific evidence that an Observer ceases Observing.

Of course consciousness is Observation. Consciousness observes what we call reality. So either consciousness is part of the brain and it's a measured state or consciousness exists outside of the brain. Materialist want to have it both ways. They want to separate consciousness from the material when it comes to the Observer but then they want to attach consciousness to the brain when you start talking about metaphysics.

At the end of the day, there's no scientific evidence that says an Observer ceases Observing. By definition and Observer observes.

This is what consciousness does. It observes what we call reality. So where is the scientific evidence that an Observer can Observe non existence? By definition an Observer has to always exist in order to Observe.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


If the universe is a epiphenomena of observation. Then it is not possible to die..



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


hmmmm, sounds like the op has been watching too many episodes of Fringe to be honest. In the Fringe tv show the observers are people (aliens in human form) who "observe" events on our planet, they can see the past present and future and attempt (where appropriate) to influence the passage if time according to "how they should happen"

if your not familiar with Fringe google for it there are plenty of references out there.


my 2 cents



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


This is vary interesting to think about.

The question is Who is the observer and what is the source of power that allows that observer to exist.

As we know that energy can not be destroyed or created it just exists, if this observer exist because of this energy.

Then the observer can nether be destroyed or created it just exists as well.

Well now if you consider the observer, being human we are energy we can not be destroyed or created as quantum physics shows we are entangled with our past present and future.

The observer only exists because they are in balance with the universe, that means that we emanate the observer does as much power as the universe does to exist in equilibrium to what we are observing.

The observer last forever we may not remember what we have observed in our past but we keep observing because we are pure energy that can not be destroyed or created we just exists in different forms from time to time.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


it is precisely the marriage of the nonlocal observer with a localized condensed matter (mind in a body) which facilitates the observer/observed paradigm.

this is to say that, in the event of separation of the mind from the body, as is presumably the case in death, the paradigm collapses.


or, in short, your OP is unwittingly arguing the opposite of what you propose: the extinction of the conscious observer upon death.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Again, there's no scientific evidence that an Observer ceases Observing.

Of course consciousness is Observation. Consciousness observes what we call reality. So either consciousness is part of the brain and it's a measured state or consciousness exists outside of the brain.
Does not follow. (Non sequitur)



...

At the end of the day, there's no scientific evidence that says an Observer ceases Observing. By definition and Observer observes.
Here's a similar argument that points out the absurdity of this class of argument. By definition a bowler bowls. There is no scientific evidence that says a bowler ceases bowling.



This is what consciousness does. It observes what we call reality. So where is the scientific evidence that an Observer can Observe non existence? By definition an Observer has to always exist in order to Observe.
The implication being that it stops observing at the time that it ceases to exist.

Also note that there is no shared meaning between the term "observer" often used within the context of quantum mechanics, and the concept we have of the "observer" that is "this person" in a human being.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by john_bmth
 


for the purposes of understanding emergent properties of physical structures, in particular living organisms, it is necessary to subdivide entropy into two types: EI and SI.


EI, or effective information, and the quantity usually re- ferred to in information theory as SI, or Shannon (entropic or structural) information.

source: toward a science of informed matter

in doing so, we are saying that thermodynamic processes which bootstrap structural entropy (SI) in order to lower their own local entropy (EI) fall into the category of living processes.

WRT life, then, an EI process involves a quantum observer with an agenda. (as opposed to SI, where the observer may be any random particle collision.) and while this "observer with an agenda" does function solely at the subatomic level (in order to appease the staunch dogmatists), the sum total of its thermodynamic effects is experienced at the macro-level, or simply as consciousness.


thus, where life is concerned (to include the non-random interactions of life with its environment)...

...consciousness is the observer.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by tgidkp
 


Not the case. You said:


or, in short, your OP is unwittingly arguing the opposite of what you propose: the extinction of the conscious observer upon death.


Say a person walks across the street, gets hit by a car and dies. The only Observers that observe his death are those that still exist in that universe. The person who got hit by the car doesn't become a non observer. They don't observe non existence.

So the person dies and observes an afterlife (mind-body) or they observe a universe where the car just missed them or they were hit by the car and broke both legs (Many Worlds).

In the context of death terms like Observation and Existence are meaningless. An observer doesn't become a non observer.



posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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In the end, everything dies.

Even "God".




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