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Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by macman
so why post or even read ...
BTW your military is in other countries right now do you not care what is happening ?
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by -W1LL
Soooo.... Not all protestors are rioters, yet all cops use excessive force and routinely beat people.
Respectfully, that is what I got from your post.
Try this -
Pretend you are a police officer standing in line with 50 other officers to your left and right. You look forward into a sea of thousands of people yelling, moving about etc. That behavior is fine, its protesting.
Now, you see the crowd coming close, and you start to get pelted with beer bottles, rocks, paint, paint cans, urine, etc etc etc.
There are 2 choices - move forward and attempt to locate and engage the people who are throwing those items / performing those actions keeping in mind the moment you advance you have just escalated the situation to a potential deadly force encounter due to the sheer number of people that now surround you.
The other choice is to employ pepper spray, pepperball guns (modified paintball guns) tear gas and flash bangs in order to get the group to back off.
The ability of an officer to employ deadly force while standing in a line is very low. That ability and justification to use deadly force rises significantly if the officer moves forward and is surrounded by the crowd.
Remeber, the use of force by the police is reviewed in the realm of what did the officer perceive the exact moment for was used. Hindsight 20/20 cannot be used as a factor for judging those actions (Supreme Court Ruling).
The Bonus Army was the popular name of an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers—17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups—who gathered in Washington, D.C., in the spring and summer of 1932 to demand immediate cash-payment redemption of their service certificates. Its organizers called it the Bonus Expeditionary Force to echo the name of World War I's American Expeditionary Force, while the media called it the Bonus March. It was led by Walter W. Waters, a former Army sergeant.
Many of the war veterans had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression. The World War Adjusted Compensation Act of 1924 had awarded them bonuses in the form of certificates they could not redeem until 1945. Each service certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment plus compound interest. The principal demand of the Bonus Army was the immediate cash payment of their certificates.
Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler, one of the most popular military figures of the time, visited their camp to back the effort and encourage them.[1] On July 28, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shots were fired and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the army to clear the veterans' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded the infantry and cavalry supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.
A second, smaller Bonus March in 1933 at the start of the Roosevelt Administration was defused with promises instead of military action. In 1936, Congress overrode President Franklin D. Roosevelt's veto to pay the veterans their bonus years early.
Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. Other students who were shot had been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7] There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of four million students,[8] and the event further affected the public opinion—at an already socially contentious time—over the role of the United States in the Vietnam War.[9]
The upheaval that enveloped the northeastern Ohio campus actually began three days earlier, in downtown Kent. Stirred to action by President Nixon's expansion of U.S. military operations in Cambodia, a roving mob of earnest antiwar activists, hard-core radicals, curious students and others smashed 50 bank and store windows, looted a jewelry store and hurled bricks and bottles at police.
Four officers suffered injuries, and the mayor declared a civil emergency. Only tear gas dispersed the mob.
An exhaustive review later concluded that this unrest on the streets — the worst in Kent's history — was "not an organized riot or a planned protest."
But the FBI's investigation swiftly uncovered reliable evidence that suggested otherwise. Among the strongest was a pre-dawn conversation — never before reported — between two unnamed men overheard inside a campus lounge later that night. Their discussion was witnessed by the girlfriend of a Kent State student and conveyed up the FBI chain of command 15 days later.
"We did it," one man exulted, according to the inquiry. "We got the riot started."
Now largely forgotten, the torching of the ROTC building was the true precursor to the killings at Kent State because it triggered the deployment of the National Guard to the fevered campus.
A female freshman provided the FBI with a sworn statement that "there was no shot before [the guardsmen's] volley, and there were no warning shots fired."
et the declassified FBI files show the FBI already had developed credible evidence suggesting that there was indeed a sniper
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by nenothtu
Yes, Mayor, City Council and governing body of the campus.
Kent Mayor Leroy Satrom declared a state of emergency, called Ohio Governor James Rhodes' office to seek assistance
City officials and downtown businesses received threats while rumors proliferated that radical revolutionaries were in Kent to destroy the city and university.
Satrom made the decision to call Governor Rhodes and request that the National Guard be sent to Kent, a request that was granted. Because of the rumors and threats, Satrom believed that local officials would not be able to handle future disturbances.
The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 P.M., but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 P.M. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building was burning.
...
More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze. Several fire engine companies had to be called in because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.
Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Wolfenz
Great....
So now some OWS supporters not only try to peg themselves to the 60s Generation fight to end the wars level. Now somebody wants to attach them WW-I era Vets who actually sacrificed and contributed to rebuilding this country after the Great Depression too.
This desperate attempt to add OWS some legitimacy and the flagrant audacity to portray it on their level is Pathetic.
Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by SLAYER69
say what you like you are assuming and attacking me personally and that is ignorant you do not know me...
Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
there is no proof of that just as there is no proof these black hooded rock and piss throwing OWS protesters werent paid to make the movement look bad.
This thread is simply trying to play on peoples emotions. There is no real comparison between the Vietnam War era Protesters and OWS! As has already been pointed out earlier. The 60s generation who protested the wars did so to stop the killing not for Government supplied freebies.
Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by nenothtu
ok so we know your stance just sit back and let the world go to hell coz things will change as they always do.. let he criminals in power do the same as they have done since vietnam and before...
why even post? matter of fact why even breath?
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69
That's pretty arrogant to declare a thread failed.
I think the failure in this thread lies at pretty obvious feet.
Here is the biggest part of the failure. There is all this anger, outright disgust and scorn directed to Occupy and anyone on ATS who participates or supports, so much so that it over-rides anger against police brutality.
C'mon boys, aint you had enough fun yet?
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
there is no proof of that just as there is no proof these black hooded rock and piss throwing OWS protesters werent paid to make the movement look bad.
So what you are saying then is its everyone elses fault...
Originally posted by SLAYER69
You state Montana as your location? Are you even American? If so, are you that disassociated with the US that you feel apart from the rest of us? If so, wouldn't that constitute a certain level of bias?
If not, Couldn't this thread and your stance be considered the postings of an outside agitator just stirring the pot?