I'm sure you have good intentions dontreally but the fact that all of this has lead up to this very moment since 9/11 is a pretty good indicator that we have been and are being lied to. Look at a map and see what country sits directly between Afghanistan and Iraq. Actions speak louder than words

And I'm sure you think any anti-Muslim government is totally rad, right? Because Jews can do no wrong, but Muslims can do nothing but wrong.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but I like reading through a thread before I pontificate.
I honestly can't remember the discussion being one that you describe. Usually it's the opposite. And...I'm neutral, or if there may be a bias...probably not. It would be one towards Jews. I like Jews. I have never know any Iranians. I dislike lies, and I am bombarded with them. If I had to choose between Iran and Israel I would not hesitate to choose Iran. Israel is Demonic in my book...Iran is just your normal screwed up country. Oh, my country is Demonic as well...just to be honest.

It boggles the mind. Here is a group of people who were the victims of a terrible crime under Hitler only to become the biggest war mongers the World has ever seen.

Its incredible.

Originally posted by dontreally

So you're essentially calling for a 2nd state for Arabs in Palestine, because the 1st was created long ago, on land originally promised by the British for a Jewish state.

Since the British gave 80% away to an Arab Hashemite prince from the Hedjaz, its a little brazen for people to still call for another Palestinian state, in an area that has been traditionally JEWISH i.e. the "West bank" is a post '67 term for Judea and Samaria, and an area which would leave the economic heartland of Israel, the Tel-Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa region, completely exposed to the mountainous hills of the west bank. This is completely and totally unfair, and unreasonable, and the only reason people don't get it is because they are being scammed by a media which ignores these fundamental facts.

edit on 19-11-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

In the 19th century an estimate of the demographics of Palestine had 85% muslim, 11% christian and 4% jewish (it had been this way for hundreds of years beforehand according to what little documentation exists). It has never been a "jewish" area except in a two thousand year old religious book!!!! It was like this until post WWII when the , mainly, US allowed displaced Jews into the area in their millions and as such overran the existing Palestinians. That's history.

Now I would love to know why anyone except a Palestinian (ie arab-85%,christian-11% and jew-4%) has any right to dictate who owns their land or how it should be split up. The Ottomans (don't think so), the British (don't think so), the US (don't think so). Just because the British were occupiers did not give them the right to hand over land which was not theirs to anyone else, so any use of that action as a justification for the state of Isreal is nonsense.

Originally posted by g146541

The US knows that a huge drawn out war with China and Russia and any of the other countries that might hate the US, is a very bad idea.
If we are broke now, we would have a long uphill battle in a wrld war.
I am not saying we'd lose but it would be a loss even if won.

Don't be so sure of that. Poor economic times often lead to a war - indeed they may be viewed as a solution as they perk up the economy.

Originally posted by FrenchOsage

I like Jews. I have never know any Iranians. I dislike lies, and I am bombarded with them. If I had to choose between Iran and Israel I would not hesitate to choose Iran.

I think we have to distinguish between Zionists and Jews. All Zionists are Jews but not all Jews are Zionists. There are plenty of Jews that hate zionism.

20 November 1977 – Egyptian President Anwar Sadat becomes the first Arab leader to officially visit Israel, when he meets Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin and speaks before the Knesset in Jerusalem, seeking a permanent peace settlement.