My Friend Just Buried His Son That Committed Suicide

I am really saddened today as an old friend of mine just buried his 27 year old son a few minutes ago. They found him hanging in the garage and although they wouldn't rule it suicide at first because of "suspicious circumstances", it seems now that the official report is going to be ruled that it was indeed suicide.

His name was Chris and he was going to become a policeman, but then got into drugs and now he is dead. I never knew Chris, although I was good friends with his father when Chris was born. The reason I am writing this thread is to get your opinions about Chris's chance of going to Heaven.

If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell or God, please go to another thread. This is the reason I put this in the religion forum is to get opinions from those who do believe in God and who knows that Heaven and Hell are real.

Most Christians believe that if you commit suicide you cannot go to Heaven because you don't have the opportunity to ask forgiveness of the sin of murder. And they say that in the Bible God says that your body is His Temple and that God says that you shouldn't destroy His Temple.

I don't think anyone can know for sure if Chris could go to Heaven or not. I wonder if Chris would have said, "God please forgive me for what I'm about to do", if then he could have went to Heaven.

So fellow believers of ATS, what do you think about Chris and his chances? Can he go to Heaven, or is he doomed to Hell?

Can you really find peace in Christ if you're always asking for forgiveness for every "sin" you commit? Sorry I know you didn't want these type of responses but I can't help it.

If he was going to be a cop and then got into drugs, it sounds to me like he was probably a decent person who got lost along the road of life. I'd imagine that those who get lost along the way are giving a good slap to rouse them, but I hardly think that they are condemned.

I would say "Heaven", because if you're far gone enough in your misery to commit suicide, you're effectively miserable enough to overcome the natural mortal fear of dying. Such a mental state is beyond sanity and cannot be given credence in determining such matters.

Heaven; Purgatory with a chance of parole in the worst case scenario.

Though, I'm not exactly a Christian, so take this with some salt.

I believe that Chris could have gone to heaven. I think that God is way more understanding and loving than most people realize. My pastor actually had a sermon one Sunday where he preached about suicide. He said that those who commit suicide can go to heaven and he backed that up with scripture. My heart goes out to you and also your friend and all of Chris's family. I will keep all of you in my prayers!

reply to post by kennylee


I don't call myself a Christian, but I do believe in God, and I do believe in a sort of heaven, and I think hell is misrepresented. It somewhat exists, but not as eternal damnation.

Your friend's son must have been severely distraught. He was likely out of his mind. No God worth worshiping would punish him for his condition. God failed him as much as he failed himself. God isn't supposed to give someone more than they can handle, but he did.

He is going to be fine. Before he was ever born, he knew God, he chose this life, this existence. He and God had something in mind for him before he ever entered this realm as your friend's son. We have no earthly idea of knowing what that choice was. Perhaps he chose to live a life that would end in despair and total hopelessness, because his soul needed to experience that in order to feel total peace in another realm. No matter how hard it gets, remember that his life ended exactly how it was supposed to end. Don't take my word for it, pray it out. If you need answers ask for them, demand them, but then don't forget to listen for the answers. They will come.

Your friend's son is exactly where he belongs. Don't let your friend suffer needlessly. If he believes in God, then he knows God would not punish a person's very soul for making some mistakes or being distraught. Help him understand that God has a plan for each of us, and one way or another, it is always accomplished. His son is just fine.

reply to post by britelite1971

Do you remember any of those scriptures by any chance? Or do you think you can maybe ask your pastor for them? Chris's family sure could use some kind of comfort from the Bible. Most of his family has always been told, like me, that you will not see Heaven if you commit suicide.

Thanks for your reply and for giving me hope.

reply to post by kennylee


King Saul killed himself to avoid torture after being defeated and captured. He still went to Heaven

The other story is about King Saul. He was fatally wounded in battle, so to avoid torture he killed himself. From David's words about Saul, it appears that Saul went to heaven. He says, 2 Sam 1:23 "Saul and Jonathan--in life they were loved and gracious, and in death they were not parted..." We know that Jonathan was godly, so if Saul and Jonathan were not parted in death, this would mean Saul is with Jonathan in heaven.

Source

Also, the drugs are his "enemy" and he is not responsible for what an enemy has done to him. Many men in the Bible walked into certain death, including Jesus.

I used Matthew 13:24-30 as the scripture text.

Matthew 13:24-30 He put before them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to someone who sowed good seed in his field; but while everybody was asleep, an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and then went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well. And the slaves of the householder came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where, then, did these weeds come from?’ He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he replied, ‘No; for in gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The refrain, “An enemy has done this” can be very effective. We know that mental illness, including depression, can result in suicide. I’m convinced that “an enemy has done this” and the experience of the master in knowing the difference between weeds and wheat, what was planted and what was not, who a person is and what awful things have been a part of that person’s life cannot be underestimated.

Source

Moses himself craved suicide:

Numbers 11:12-15 Moses was in despair because of the complaints of the Israelites whom he was leading. The burden of leadership was too heavy for him to bear. He asked God "If You treat me like this, please kill me here and now..."

Samson effectively committed suicide

Judges 16:29-30 Samson had been chained to the two middle pillars of a temple. He pushed them apart. thereby knowingly causing the collapse of the building, his own suicide and the death of a few thousand Philistines inside. The death toll exceeded the number of people that he had killed during the rest of his life -which was considerable. Samson had been blinded, and no longer wanted to live as a captive. By causing his own death, he had a chance to destroy many of the enemy.

Source

this is what i think... i may or not be right...

Every person on earth has a plan by God. Each and every single person is meant to die the moment they do. I believe this is a test of faith brother. His short life has a big affect on those around him. Will his family turn from God in bitter hatred? Or will his family and friends turn to God with everlasting passion? that i believe is the question that is asked.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Your entire reply was very deep and emotional for me and I want to thank you for your response. Lives are planned out way before we are ever born and they will and do happen as planned. You said,

Your friend's son must have been severely distraught. He was likely out of his mind. No God worth worshiping would punish him for his condition. God failed him as much as he failed himself. God isn't supposed to give someone more than they can handle, but he did.

One would think that anyone who is distraught enough to take their own life would be out of his mind, and in Chris's case, I really don't know what pushed him over the edge. It does say in the Bible, even though I don't know right off the top of my head where it is, that God will never put more on you than you can handle. I guess in a way, God did let him down, or God didn't keep his promise in this case or so it seems.

Chris not only failed himself, but failed everyone around him IMO. I wonder if he even considered the pain he was about to cause to all his friends and family. Maybe he was so completely out of his mind that all he could think of was dying, getting out of this life. Nobody will ever know the answers to these questions though.

Suicide leaves more questions than answers and leaves family and friends with a deep empty space within their hearts. Thanks again for your deep perspective on this matter. It gives me some peace..

reply to post by kennylee

I guess in a way, God did let him down, or God didn't keep his promise in this case or so it seems.

Chris not only failed himself, but failed everyone around him IMO. I wonder if he even considered the pain he was about to cause to all his friends and family.

People left after a suicide often think of it as extremely selfish. In a way it is, but nobody can understand the inner turmoil of that person, and perhaps they thought the bandaid approach would be easier on their family than a long drawn out battle with drugs, addictions, and legal troubles. In all likelihood, he thought he was doing his family a favor by ending their suffering quick, and getting out of their way for a happy life.

Also, although I said what I said, I truly believe God did not let Chris down. I truly believe God helped him gain the experience in this existence that his soul craved, and in some way it completed him and he was able to move on. He and God are likely discussing the lessons learned at this very moment and preparing Chris for his next existence here or in Heaven.

I come to that conclusion after some deep conversations with God regarding suffering people in my own life, and when God responded, "they asked for it." Exactly like that. I asked why, and in my mind I suddenly just knew they asked for it. I hated that answer, and I got angry, and in the middle of my prayer, I began to argue with God, and whatever questions I asked, I suddenly knew the rebuttal, and after a few moments, I came to understand that we all get exactly what we ask for. This includes you and Chris's father. In some way, your soul chose this existence that would experience this loss, hopelessness, anger, etc. You are gaining the experience your soul needs at this very moment. Its ok to be angry. Its ok to be sad. Embrace your emotions. Pray to God to understand them and grow from them. Question God or challenge if you feel it's necessary. God can take it. This is part of the plan. Don't take my answers, although I hope they help, but go get your own.

reply to post by getreadyalready

In all likelihood, he thought he was doing his family a favor by ending their suffering quick, and getting out of their way for a happy life.

You just left me blown away by this comment. There have been a few times in my life back in my younger days when I have thought the same thing. I was heavy into drugs back then and people were constantly telling me that I needed to grow up and start acting like a man, get off of drugs and make something of myself. I even told my mother one time that if I was dead then she wouldn't have to worry about it any longer. That, more than likely was one of the determining factors of his self-inflicted death, and that is truly a sad thing.

I guess as parents or friends, when we want to try and convince someone we see destroying themselves, we really need to be careful on how we come across to that person. That is really something to think about......

I come to that conclusion after some deep conversations with God regarding suffering people in my own life, and when God responded, "they asked for it." Exactly like that. I asked why, and in my mind I suddenly just knew they asked for it.

I don't comprehend what you are saying here. People that are suffering, how do they ask for it, by their actions? How did Chris ask for it, by getting heavy into drugs?

I do remember somewhat, but am looking up what I don't remember word for word. I noticed that another atser posted some scripture on this, but different ones. I hope this helps to give you and especially his family comfort.

"Almost everyone would agree that life is the most precious gift that human beings have been given. Just the chance to be alive on this earth and play a part in the grand scheme of God's eternal plan is a privilege indeed. Yet, despite this, there are times when life becomes so difficult or unbearable that many have, at one time or another, wished they were dead or had never been born. For some, these feelings linger--and if they linger long enough, suicide seems to be the only escape. In fact, in the United States (and stats are similar in countries around the world) the suicide rate has tripled among teen and young adults in the past 40 years."

"What does the Bible say about suicide? How does God view it? Do all those who kill themselves go to Hell?"

"Whether you are contemplating suicide or know someone who killed themselves, God wants you to know there is hope and life for you. He is the great Healer and Restorer of what has been lost or stolen."

"Many of the greatest saints and heroes of the Bible faced overwhelming depression and sometimes wrote that they wished they had never even been born. King David, (Psalm 13:2-4), the prophet Jeremiah, (Jeremiah 20:14-18), and Job, (Job 7:15-16) among others, all reached low points where they despaired of their very lives. Job says, "So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life. I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity" (Job 7:15-16)."

"Do all those who kill themselves go to Hell?"

"Some people believe that all who commit suicide go immediately to Hell. However, the Bible never says if this is the case. The Bible is silent on this issue. God probably did not address it in black and white for a good reason. If we knew that we would still go to Heaven if we killed ourselves, there would probably be a lot more suicides taking place than there already are. However, if we knew that all who killed themselves were automatically banished to Hell, no matter what their situation, it may be too much for the grief-stricken family and friends to bear. Murder and suicide are not unpardonable sins."

I also found this: The last six Commandments specify our behavior towards other people:

5. Honor your father and your mother. . . .
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet . . . anything that is your neighbor’s.

Notice that with the exception of the sixth commandment, you can not do them to yourself. This makes sense when you realize that the book of Exodus is one of the books of “The Law.” That is, it primarily defines civil laws—the type of laws that would be tried in a court today. Therefore, applying such laws “against yourself” makes no sense. You would find the same concept in other areas of the Bible—murder applies to killing other people, not yourself.
- from clarifyingchristianity.com

.....and this is from me. All of us, at least those of us who are honest with ourselves have had moments when life has been so difficult that we just didn't feel like we could go on. For those who haven't ever felt that way, there will be a time they do. I believe that we are strangers here on earth. Our body is simply a vessel to contain our soul. I see this life as sort of a bootcamp for the soul. We are here to learn, love and teach. When our time is up and we have accomplished what we were sent here for we get to go home. God knows how difficult life is and that there are times where we just can't take it anymore and wish we could go home. Some people know what they are feeling when this happens and others don't, they just want the pain to end. I truely truely believe that God understands these things and if we get to the point where we can no longer endure, he understands and He still loves us. Please, I don't want anyone to misunderstand and think that I am saying it is okay to commit suicide. What I'm saying is that I believe that it greatly saddens God if we do this, but that he still loves the ones that have. I think of God as the ultimate loving parent. Would you still love your child if they chose to end their life? Of course, and so does God.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
this is what i think... i may or not be right...

Every person on earth has a plan by God. Each and every single person is meant to die the moment they do. I believe this is a test of faith brother. His short life has a big affect on those around him. Will his family turn from God in bitter hatred? Or will his family and friends turn to God with everlasting passion? that i believe is the question that is asked.

You have an excellent perspective my friend. I too believe that we all have an appointed time to die, although I never understood why people so young had to die. It is a test of faith also, but knowing Chris's dad like I do, I'm afraid that he will have bitter hatred toward God. I hope I'm wrong but I really don't think I am.

I pray that I never have to experience the pain of having to bury one of my sons. I can't even begin to fathom such pain....

I think he can very well go to heaven just fine. For all we know, his contract in this life was providing this experience for another to learn from. We cannot sit here and postulate about how God allows us to choose our fate as if we know; I believe we are given life to experience lessons and evolve spiritually which would include all different outcomes, not just the "right" one. It is possible that Chris had made decisions that made him feel like this incarnation was a waste; while unfortunate, all we can do is thank him for his life, love, and service and hope for the deepest peace for him moving forward. My deepest condolences on your friends loss. Take care.

reply to post by kennylee


you believe that Chris's, we have the same name , father is one that will turn from God in bitter hatred... and you see it... the question is: you see it, but will you do anything to help Chris's father? possibly show him to the love of Christ? nothing is by coincidence my friend... i urge you to be with Chris's father in this hard time of trials and tribulations.
maybe you could talk with him to understand his pain as he takes up his cross... maybe this is your cross, to help Chris's father... i don't know but he is weak and vulnerable right now... and i urge you to be with him.

and pray for him as well! prayer is a powerful tool... we must lay our lives to be servants of God and look to Him for anything, like children! but since we are men, we must also act and think like men! hope this helps

Through my near death experience I learned you are not mute when standing in the light. God knows your soul and you can be forgiven of sins after an earthly death if asked.

This is what I believe....

Sorry for your loss....

reply to post by getreadyalready


Since King Saul killed himself and still went to Heaven, then why do people say that suicide is a one way ticket to Hell? I had a discussion a few years back on this subject with a man that is closer to God than any person I ever knew, and he told me the same thing, that suicide is unforgivable. And I know that he knows about King Saul because he knows every story in the Bible.

Now I am going to have to hunt him up and ask hm about King Saul....

reply to post by kennylee


easy... doctrine of Catholic faith...

reply to post by kennylee

I don't comprehend what you are saying here. People that are suffering, how do they ask for it, by their actions? How did Chris ask for it, by getting heavy into drugs?

No not at all. He didn't ask for it by his actions here. He asked for it before he ever got here. I'll tell you how I got my answer, but it is kind of a long story.

At the time I was having a lot of back and forth with God. I had a baby struggling for life, I had lost a job (from spending too much time with the baby), I was losing a house and a truck, my sister-in-law had just had a still birth, there was a family killed in San Diego by a freak fighter jet crash, and the news was full of horrendous things happening in Africa. It seemed like there was no god at all. I pray often, and I always get the sensation of comfort afterwards or during, but I never actually felt like I was having a conversation with God until 2 specific occurrences. One was at my Mason Lodge at almost 1 a.m. one night. I went there alone specifically to call God out on a few things. I didn't turn any lights on, I just went in, opened the Bible, knelt at the altar, and started laying it all on the line. After some pretty blasphemous things, I was entirely overcome by fear and terror. First the floor seemed to rumble a little bit, and I thought it was just a passing truck, but then it felt like a wave rushed at me through the floor, it hit my knees and physically tossed me to my feet, and I panicked and ran toward the front door, but then my logic caught up to me, I giggled a little to myself and turned back toward the altar and a wall of blackness was there waiting, and it just shoved me on towards the door. It was outrageous, my heart was racing, and I was in complete disbelief, but I was also on a mission. I sent my brother a text message, told him I would call him in one hour, and if I didn't call, come get me at the Mason's Lodge, and then I went back into the altar. I took a deep breath, looked around into the darkness, knelt down again and prayed, and I was a little nicer, but I didn't get the answers I was looking for, nor did I have anything else happen out of the ordinary. I was extremely disappointed in my own cowardice and the fact that I missed such a great opportunity.

So, I went home, my wife was asleep, and I went in to check on the baby. I was overcome with love and fear and guilt at his bedside. I wished I could do more to help him, and it seemed like all the suffering in the whole world was laying on my shoulders, so I knelt down and continued my prayer. When I asked God why these people were suffering, why I was born to such great parents, but others were born in war zones and poverty, why I was so healthy, but my baby was struggling for every breath, etc., etc., and suddenly the thought just came to me, because, they asked for it. That made no sense to me, but I was a little taken back by the thought coming out of nowhere. I thought it was my own thought, but I couldn't believe it, and I began to conversate with myself in my head, in prayer mode. I said, nobody asks for this, nobody wants to suffer, and just as quickly came the answer, they asked to suffer, they need to suffer. ????? I was getting scared, and mad, because my baby did not need to suffer!

So, to make a long story short, and because I don't remember the exact words from 4 years ago, suffice to say, by the time I went to my own bed, hours later, I fully understood that every soul chooses its physical life. It chooses when and where to be born, and it has a choice about the experiences and life lessons it wants to experience and grow or learn from here.

Some souls might only need one moment of unconditional love. They are born into their mother's arms to take a single breath and move on. Some souls might need to give that unconditional love, with no hope of having it returned, they just need to convey it, and so they give birth to that baby that will feel all their love and then move on. Some souls may have always felt blessed, and they want to know what it is like to live outside of God. They might want to struggle and be lost and try to make it on their own without so much as a kind word or a single sign to point them in the right direction. Some souls may just want to experience every pleasure and pain this existence can offer. Some need to use, consume, exploit, and others need to have those things happen to them. I didn't like the answers. I didn't like them whatsoever, but I knew they were not my words. I knew I was conversing with God, and I knew it was a result of my tenacity in reaching him, and I knew it was a blessing, so I absorbed what I could, and I felt better.

It's only my humble experience. I'm no expert or Saint, but I hope it helps a little bit with your suffering.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Every person on earth has a plan by God. Each and every single person is meant to die the moment they do. I believe this is a test of faith brother.

That is the reason Stonewall Jackson was able to sit atop his horse during intense battle and command his troops with an unwavering bravery. He had an unwavering faith to back it up.

Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me. Captain, that is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave.

Wiki

We can go with the current, or we can fight it, but in the end, we will meet our fate one way or another. It seems a lot more productive to embrace our destiny rather than buck against it, but for most people (including me, or especially me) it is near impossible to see the path. For whatever reason, I fight the current day in and day out, and yet I am always redirected toward God's will for me.