Are certain bible passage readers covering up there being a such thing as a rapture(s) written about

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well, like I said, before 1830 Rapture was never taught, to my knowledge. If it is a reality, I for one wish it would happen already, so the rest of us secular folks could have a little peace, and be able to discuss a few things without someone calling us names and trying to save us from their version of the Afterlife. Am I alone here?

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by Praetorius

 

SNIP

Some scholars say this refers to Israel, but Israel is not a nation undesired. Israel is God's chosen people, the apple of His eye and His wife. Jesus came as the Jewish Messiah to bring salvation and the kingdom of God to the Jews, if they had accepted him. Gentiles who have put their faith in Jesus for salvation are grafted into the vine and are in my opinion the nation not desired. A word study of the word desired indicates: (Hebrew kacaph) to long for, to pine after, to be paleb reason of longing. Thus the desired nation is Israel and by consequence the undesired nation is made up of gentiles.

The English word Jew was coined and placed into the 18th century Bible and generally only meant Judean/someone from Judah. Today it only means someone who practices the religion of Judaism, which is anti-Christ. How else do you think that Pharisees became known as the only chosen ones of God??

The word gentile can only be determined by context. The Bible is not about Jews and gentiles - it is only about the House of Judah and the House of Israel. As you know, the House of Israel (10 tribes) had been divorced by God 700+ years before Jesus came. And He only came for lost sheep of Israel, nobody else. Take a good look at who each apostle speaks to, including Paul. The lost sheep of Israel and Judeans. Paul calls all the lost sheep Gentiles.... Not anybody else. Israel as a whole (12 tribes) are known as an olive tree. Notice what is grafted into the olive tree? Wild olive shoots ... The same Israelites who had been divorced by God all those years ago....

Now perhaps we can all see why the modern day Pharisees, those Jews that are actually of the Synagogue of Satan, are extremely happy for Christians to call themselves Gentiles instead of their true name...House of Israel by birth. For then their lies become glaring. Scripture tells us that Judah and Israel will be taken on the day of the Lord's return and then returned to the promised land.... Not before. So WHO are the majority of Jews in tge country called Israel today?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well, like I said, before 1830 Rapture was never taught, to my knowledge. If it is a reality, I for one wish it would happen already, so the rest of us secular folks could have a little peace, and be able to discuss a few things without someone calling us names and trying to save us from their version of the Afterlife. Am I alone here?

You're almost correct, before the 1830s it was rarely taught. Augustine created some enormous Theological errors for most of Christiandom and one of those was his Eschatalogical teachings. He taught that prophecy about the future coming of Christ was allegorical, and that He would rule and reign from our hearts. That Christ really wasn't returning to rid the world of it's evil governments and their leaders.

He did this during the years Rome had Christianity as the state religion, it's not good for job security to be teaching that from the pulpit. Augustine was at fault for leading people awry about Christ's return, before him the early church father's taught not only about the rapture, but pretribulational.

John Darby re-popularized the doctrine, he didn't create it. It had been lost to the church for 1,500 years. Through that time people weren't looking for Christ to return, they primarily thought He had already come and they were in the 1,000 year reign.

If it is a reality, I for one wish it would happen already, so the rest of us secular folks could have a little peace, and be able to discuss a few things without someone calling us names and trying to save us from their version of the Afterlife.

Or, you 'secular folks' could ratchet up the persecution maybe 400-500%?? Currently over 100,000 Christians a year are murdered for their testimony of Christ. You 'secular folks' could have us all gone in a matter of years, why wait for the rapture? Being called names must be horrifying for you, how do you cope with that?

I have several questions for the Rapture believers. Care to play along?

1. The dimensions of Heaven are given in the Bible in Revelations:
"16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."

A cubit is the first recorded unit of length 18 inches. 18 times 140 is 2,520, divide that by 12 inches, it comes out to 240 feet. My math may be off, it was a sore subject for me. But anyway, this sounds to me like Heaven is really small.

So, with all of the famous Bible people like Abraham, and Noah in there, and all of the Prophets we read about, and all of the good, faithful Christians automatically go there, don't you think perhaps it may have filled up already?

2. Do you really think that a Good and Loving God, as Christians market him, create a whole human race, then condemn most of them to torture in a lake of fire? If this is true, what then is the purpose of this exorcise?

3. God says he is "Alpha and Omega," two Greek words, not Hebrew. Anyway, God is said to be both Omnipotent, and Omnipresent, and it is said God knows everything, and knew everything from the very beginning. Is that right?
So, if God knows a person will be an Atheist, then why does God create that person anyway?

""I know the plans I have for you.... They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."
(Jeremiah 29:11 NLT)

Originally posted by autowrench
I have several questions for the Rapture believers. Care to play along?

A cubit is the first recorded unit of length 18 inches. 18 times 140 is 2,520, divide that by 12 inches, it comes out to 240 feet. My math may be off, it was a sore subject for me. But anyway, this sounds to me like Heaven is really small.

Yeah, your math is terrible. 12,000 furlongs is 1,500 miles. Like from Maine to Florida. The cities length, height, and width are all equal, it's either a 1,500 x 1,500 mile cube or pyramid.

So, with all of the famous Bible people like Abraham, and Noah in there, and all of the Prophets we read about, and all of the good, faithful Christians automatically go there, don't you think perhaps it may have filled up already?

lol, for sake of argument let's assume there have been 100 billion people, and let's assume a huge number of 20% of them will be saved, that would give each one 75 acres to themselves. But Christ didn't say 20% would be saved, he said "few".

2. Do you really think that a Good and Loving God, as Christians market him, create a whole human race, then condemn most of them to torture in a lake of fire? If this is true, what then is the purpose of this exorcise?

To prepare a bride for His Son, of people who want nothing more than to spend eternity with Him. That's why robot dating hasn't taken off yet, most people prefer something that wants to be with them and chooses to be with them.

3. God says he is "Alpha and Omega," two Greek words, not Hebrew. Anyway, God is said to be both Omnipotent, and Omnipresent, and it is said God knows everything, and knew everything from the very beginning. Is that right?
So, if God knows a person will be an Atheist, then why does God create that person anyway?

In the OT it's the "Aleph" and the "Tau". Nothing changed there. In fact there is something interesting about Hebrew. They sometimes have untranslated letters such as the "Aleph" and the "Tau" in Genesis 1:1. "In the beginning, God (the Aleph and the Tau) created the heavens and the Earth." Another intesting place where there is an untranslated Aleph and Tau is this verse:

"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me (the Aleph and the Tau) whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." Zechariah 12:10


And you're responsible for your own actions and thoughts.

Originally posted by WarJohn
Do you find that certain passage readers are covering up there being a such thing as a rapture(s) written about in the bible? If so, then be heard about it in here. Or why do you think certain people are just anti-rapture?

Here is the fun part. Which of these 1-4 numbered quotes below from kjv may imply a rapture(s) written about under other terms? And why or why not?

1)

Luke 17

34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Those verses do not imply a rapture. I have read the King Jame, NIV, and the Living Bible a few dozen times and have seen very little to do with any rapture.

The verses above refer to judgement and death. Two men in bed together is not something God condones or looks away from. Women grinding together? That too has homosexual connotations. And when asked where did they go, Jesus says "where the body is the eagles gather" You leave a body out side and sure enough "eagles" will gather. He meant they will be dead. It's kinda plain.

The verses speak of how many will die in judgement. Half or more will perish. This world is sick to the core. The biggest movie right now is about a teenage girl who has to choose between bestiality or necrophilia with someone who has been dead for 100 years. Recent top tunes on the charts would never have been played on the radio 20 years ago. Songs with themes of sadomasochism and how drunk one can get are not doing anything to make things better.

The world needs to wake up. I have began pointing out to my wife when examples of bestiality or other perversion are being fed to us on tv in the guise of it being normal or accepted. She is amazed at how frequent it is. Even on children's shows.

God is not mocked and the current society is ripe for a righteous culling. From everything I have read the Bible is pretty clear what is going to happen.

At the "time of harvest" the weeds will be pulled out and gathered together and burned. Jesus will sort out the sheep from the goats and the goats get to be destroyed. The sheep will rule and reign with him for a thousand years. After the 1000 years the devil will be released and all those who are unhappy with the world and the way things are will rebel. The rebels will die and the Earth will be destroyed. We will in habit a new Earth. Most likely Venus (the bright morning star) and God Himself will come to our new Home and live with us in person.

If you actually read the Bible you will find that many if not most of the rules and traditions of Christians are meaningless and without merit.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

And you're responsible for your own actions and thoughts.

I told you my math is terrible. And you are right that I am wholly responsible for each of my actions, and words, and I also am quite aware that I make my own future. And I have, planned it so, and there is where I am headed. I do not wish to go to the Christian Heaven. I have read the descriptions in many Bibles and books, and no thank you. There are many other places, other dimensions, and other times one can stay in for awhile. Earth is a school, after all, a school for Spirits in training to be Gods and Goddesses. To learn to create a Universe by thought alone, and populate that Universe with life in abundance. Each Spirit will spend many, many lives here on Earth, Earth has a 26,000 year cycle between destruction, so one can live a great many lives, and learn a great deal during a cycle so long. I have live many lifetimes, and learned a great many things. Time for some R&R. Ice up a few, and put some Skynard on, be home soon.

reply to post by autowrench


Well, you didn't "play along" for long, no biggie. You asked why He created you knowing you wouldn't want to spend eternity with Him, now you have it. You're responsible for your own thoughts and actions. You don't have to take the gift offered to you. It doesn't mean it wasn't offered to you. The nasty side effect of creating entities that can choose to love you is invariably you have to create entities that choose to hate you.

Regarding the "rapture," (being caught up), I find that the Bible makes it abundantly clear that this takes place when the Messiah (Christ) returns. See 1st Thess. 4:16 & onwards...
The "one taken, another left" verses show that those who are left, are left dead. They have become food for the carrion birds (the eagles).

As to the measurement of heaven, the Bible does not give a measurement of heaven.
In the book of Revelation, the measurement of the city "New Jerusalem" is given. The Bible says that this (space) city, comes down from heaven and onto the Earth.

The city is perfectly square, and it's perimeter is 12,000 furlongs or 1,500 miles. That is 375 miles per side.
These dimensions are similar to the size of the state of Colorado, to put it in perspective.
It also measures 216 feet high, or almost 20 stories tall.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Praetorius

 

3 & 4 don't (they refer to the transfiguration of Jesus).

No, Jesus was explaining one of the apostles would be alive to see Him coming in His glory from heaven. John did witness this event, while on the island of Patmos in 95-96 A.D.

No, numbers 3 and 4 are indeed referring to the Transfiguration. Jesus said, "There be some here." He didn't say there would only be one. When Jesus went up to the mountain, He took "Peter, James, and John his brother" with Him. Jesus was transformed before their eyes into the perfect, majestic form He had in Heaven, and Moses and Elijah both appeared, and talked with Jesus.

Moses had died, and was then resurrected and taken to Heaven. Elijah was taken, or translated, to Heaven without seeing death. When Jesus returns, there will be two classes of righteous people: those who have died and are resurrected at His coming, and those who will be alive at His coming without seeing death. This second group will be changed into their immortal, uncorrupted bodies when Jesus returns.

The Transfiguration was an example, or demonstration, of how the second coming will be. Jesus will return in Heavenly glory, and the righteous dead will be resurrected. Then, the righteous living will be translated to meet them in the air.

And, the rapture is being taught all wrong today. When Jesus returns, there will be no 7 year tribulation. When Jesus returns, that's all, it is done. Read the following study to learn the truth about the rapture:

www.remnantofgod.org...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

Well, you didn't "play along" for long, no biggie. You asked why He created you knowing you wouldn't want to spend eternity with Him, now you have it. You're responsible for your own thoughts and actions. You don't have to take the gift offered to you. It doesn't mean it wasn't offered to you. The nasty side effect of creating entities that can choose to love you is invariably you have to create entities that choose to hate you.

Which of the Biblical Gods do you mean? It was the Annunaki that really created humankind as we appear today. All of the Biblical Gods were ETs. The real Creators are unknown, even by ET. And as for the Real Creators? That would be us, friend, all of us together make up what we think of as God. One day humanity will suddenly realize this fact, then we will be on our way to be a Creator in our own right.

reply to post by autowrench


No, those "E.T's" you speak of are fallen angels. They are actually "E.D.'s". The Bible accounts for them.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

No, those "E.T's" you speak of are fallen angels. They are actually "E.D.'s". The Bible accounts for them.

Oh, so you are in the same box as RG? All Ets are Demons crowd? Check your U2s, have something to tell you.

reply to post by autowrench


Right on man. Daniel 2:43.

OK, then how about answering these questions?

If there was nothing before God created everything, then where was God before that? Where did he come from?

If the Bible had never been written, would we know about God?

Did the Israelite scribes invent God for some reason, or did they have access to earlier records concerning him? If so, what were they?

So, from where precisely did the Israelites of that era glean their knowledge of events and characters from thousands of years before - events which, following the brief account of God's earthly creation, begin in the book of Genesis with the story of Adam and Eve? Were they actually time travellers?

Being the heir to the Davidic line Jesus was obliged to marry by law. Jesus was also required to have at least two sons. Why does not the Bible reflect this marriage? They do tell of a marriage, but do not attribute it to Jesus and Mary.

If God created the universe 6000 years ago, how can we see stars more than 6000 light years away?

Why would God create the Earth anyway, knowing that, without a doubt, it would come to a fiery demise?

If you were born without ever hearing of religion, then picked up and read a book called the Bible, would you take the stories as truth, or think them as something else?

Why do you call anything unexplainable in the Bible, or in the World, evil?

Why do you wrack your brains searching for reasons that blatant scientific facts are false, just to prove that your 2000 year old book written by an anonymous author is correct?

The Church knows that it's own description of The Holy Spirit is the hidden Sophia, the Sacred Feminine, Wisdom Herself. She is the one who whispers love and compassion to us in our prayers. She is the one who heals the sick with her nurturing and ministering of healing properties from the Earth Herself, and brings balance to the world of men with her wisdom. Why do Christians call her "the Whore of Babylon," when that title goes to the Church in Rome, built on 7 hills?

The Bible says clearly that, "whatever you hold as truth on Earth, I will hold true in Heaven." On Earth, every living thing is male and female, yet, to Christians, the Divine is three males. Why is this?

You do not have to answer, most Christians cannot.

Reply to post by autowrench

Typical Atheist.



Try actually reading the Scriptures before spouting off. It makes you look silly.

I will provide answers to your ignorance and superiority complex when I get to a computer.


Before I do, perhaps you should try Google, though.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

If there is no pre-tribulation rapture, then is it possible We are in the tribulation now?

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by autowrench

 

Typical Atheist.

Try actually reading the Scriptures before spouting off. It makes you look silly.

I will provide answers to your ignorance and superiority complex when I get to a computer.


Before I do, perhaps you should try Google, though.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

No, not an Atheist. Typical Christian spreading hate, right? Don't you know Google reports all search terms to the NSA? I have read the Bible(s) three of them, actually, from different time periods, and also looked up a lot of words in it with a Hebrew/English dictionary, and a Strongs. What more do I need to thoroughly research the Bible, and see it for what it is? Why is it my 1862 issue is thicker and different from a modern KJV?

reply to post by autowrench

I have read the Bible(s) three of them, actually, from different time periods, and also looked up a lot of words in it with a Hebrew/English dictionary, and a Strongs. What more do I need to thoroughly research the Bible, and see it for what it is? Why is it my 1862 issue is thicker and different from a modern KJV?

This looks like a question for me here! As for your 1862 edition, what are you referring too? An Oxford publication of the KJV Bible? I personally use a 1769 edition of the KJV, what are the three you read?

- NotURTypical: Do you hold to the fallen angels were the "sons of God" revered to in Genesis 6, Psalms and Job? I find them to be different than angels, and a whole other ED spiritual creation

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

No, those "E.T's" you speak of are fallen angels. They are actually "E.D.'s". The Bible accounts for them.

And you can prove this, beyond any doubt whatsoever? There were ETs here on Earth millions of years before the church came along, and what of the ETs and UFOs in the Bible itself? I am beginning to think you are as brainwashed ans some other Christians in here are.

Read, and Learn, friend.

Spacecraft and Extraterrestrials in the Bible and History

Flying Vehicles and Advanced Technology in the Bible

The Enoch Connection

The Suppressed History of Planet Earth

ALIENS IN THE QURAN

As for the Fallen Angels you all talk about, are nothing more than rebel Annunaki, called "The Iggy," who were left here when Enki last left this sector.
All Angles are ETs, The Gods in the Bible are ETs, and one day soon they will be back to show you the truth. So hang on tight to that book, you may have to eat your words.

And I see you did not address even one of my questions, NYTC. Someone else said they would answer then also, but so far, three days now, no one can.