A woman from Iran warns of Iran's Crushing Response to Slightest Hostile Move , page 3

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Wars cannot be initiated with reasons. The US/Israeli side had provided their evidences and reasons, even up to UN.

I think you possibly meant 'without' reasons or maybe not. I would contest that the US/Israeli government has presented any real evidence. Certainly they have presented their reasons, mostly by inference, and the US and the UN are synonymous so nothing surprising there then.

Nukes, terrorism, potential assasination of diplomatic figures are NO small matters to mankind, and have to be reassured, honestly, and not by simple mere words,rhetoric, blusters, threats but by hard evidences.

Absolutely. I agree 100%. Would you kindly forward that to the US and Israeli governments.

Rest assured, if it had nothing to hide, then there will be no conflicts nor support for conflicts. Should there be other culprits than the gov is involved, then they must be apprehended and be brought to justice, and not covered up.

Mm, what about the Israeli perpetrators of Stuxnet?

But if the Iranian regime continues to bluster and issue more insane threats, guess what will happen?

The US government will do the same as usual?

reply to post by PuterMan

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Enough with your irrational rant?

Care to grow up now and stick to the topic?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Enough with your irrational rant?

Care to grow up now and stick to the topic?

Unfortunately ad hominem attacks when you are out of your logical depth are really not very relevant to the discussion, to which I have been sticking as the topic is about the rhetoric of leaders on both sides.

reply to post by rigel4

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I believe you are an agent of the regime.
I have nothing to discuss with you.

I am agent of Iranian people who don't will to war .

But in a jungle , when you are surrounded by wild animals and you have nothing to defend yourself. A wild will be going to help much.

I suggest you think before you reply. Ask yourself :

What is going a lone agent of Iranian govt is going to do in ATS.

If you found the answer , you can tell the whole people.

ETA : Isn't accusing other people a sin in your religion ?

ETA 2 : I think that you thought that Iranian are much uncivilized and ignorant to be on the sites like this. But I guess you were wrong.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by mobiusmale

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The only thing that is going to prevent this, likely, is for the current regime to stand down....allow free elections...thus stopping the threats to Isreal. It probably wouldn't hurt too...if Iran stopped holding its annual Death to America day.

Are these reasons enough to let Iran be invaded ? or there will be blood.

I know why there will be blood in Iran , but there will be no blood in African countries. Although they are having less democracy and freedom than Iranian have.

It is because Iran's Oil and Gas resources.

UK and US are not democracy providers , they just seek the ways to feed their hungry multinational corporations.

Thank you for replying.
I think that Iranian should stand for their elections and democracy.

I think you are missing the point. It is part of the plan...that Iran will become part of the Western-controlled/influenced sphere. It will be turned from a belligerent into an ally. Just like the experience with Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

Syria is coming up to bat. Iran is after that.

Iran is faced with a choice. Stand down, fall in line and become a friendly nation...or be taken down, and converted into one - against the will of its current rulers.

Whether or not this is "fair", it is reality.

I hope that Iran will change its course, and will take the peaceful route...and stop putting itself in harm's way by its own actions. But I do not believe that will happen.

So, when it begins to go down, I do hope you and your family are in a safe place.

I do doubt, by the way, that there will be a physical invasion of Iran at this time. Iran will get a hard spanking (like Saddam did the first time around), and it will have the opportunity to change from its stance of confronting America, Israel and the rest of the West.

If it does not...then a pretext will be found to force a Regime change.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by mobiusmale

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The only thing that is going to prevent this, likely, is for the current regime to stand down....allow free elections...thus stopping the threats to Isreal. It probably wouldn't hurt too...if Iran stopped holding its annual Death to America day.

Are these reasons enough to let Iran be invaded ? or there will be blood.

I know why there will be blood in Iran , but there will be no blood in African countries. Although they are having less democracy and freedom than Iranian have.

It is because Iran's Oil and Gas resources.

UK and US are not democracy providers , they just seek the ways to feed their hungry multinational corporations.

Thank you for replying.
I think that Iranian should stand for their elections and democracy.

I think you are missing the point. It is part of the plan...that Iran will become part of the Western-controlled/influenced sphere. It will be turned from a belligerent into an ally. Just like the experience with Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

Syria is coming up to bat. Iran is after that.

Iran is faced with a choice. Stand down, fall in line and become a friendly nation...or be taken down, and converted into one - against the will of its current rulers.

Whether or not this is "fair", it is reality.

I hope that Iran will change its course, and will take the peaceful route...and stop putting itself in harm's way by its own actions. But I do not believe that will happen.

So, when it begins to go down, I do hope you and your family are in a safe place.

I do doubt, by the way, that there will be a physical invasion of Iran at this time. Iran will get a hard spanking (like Saddam did the first time around), and it will have the opportunity to change from its stance of confronting America, Israel and the rest of the West.

If it does not...then a pretext will be found to force a Regime change.

Thank you for all the good wishing for me and my family.

I am a Muslim. I am a man of truth. I should follow the truth I find or I am out. I hope that I can find the truth and stand on that side. No matter winner or loser. Because I believe in afterlife and judgment day.

Thank you for replying and caring.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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As mentioned, this is no small issue, more so in the wake of IAEA's revelations of Iranian nuke armament build up which is a possibility

I am quite happy to have a rational debate with you on your view point so let's do that shall we?

So, the question is who fed the information to the IAEA? Note also that it says a possibility, not a fact. Now as I understand and I will be honest I don't have a source right now, the information came from Israel. Should that be the case then I hardly consider that to be reliable.

ETA: Meant to rspond to this:

If Iran has nothing to hide, it should not fear this step. It's not like asking Iran to physically bow to anyone or lost their economic or political status, but instead it will reaussure the world and enhance its own standing.

I don't believe that Iran does fear inspections. Unfortunately they are taking the stance that if no one believes them why should they comply. Now I agree that this is not helpful, but when you consider all the car-rap that has been thrown at them and the sanctions etc would you not feel like this?

reply to post by Jepic

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I guess your right, I mean Iraq and Afghanistan were also won in a day, weren't they? What makes you think that Iran would be the only country the USA and Israel would be fighting against? About Iran anyway, have you seen the landscape in that country? It is pretty much Afghanistan with a bit of Iraq all over again, except this time missiles will actually be coming back....

reply to post by jondave

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Respond to what? A country invading them?

Thats just called self defence. What do you call it, a threat to humanity?

Originally posted by Redevilfan09
reply to post by jondave

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Respond to what? A country invading them?

Thats just called self defence. What do you call it, a threat to humanity?

Well said.

I think the problems is that they are under influence of their MSM and they can not judge fairly.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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So, the question is who fed the information to the IAEA? Note also that it says a possibility, not a fact. Now as I understand and I will be honest I don't have a source right now, the information came from Israel. Should that be the case then I hardly consider that to be reliable.

ETA: Meant to rspond to this:

If Iran has nothing to hide, it should not fear this step. It's not like asking Iran to physically bow to anyone or lost their economic or political status, but instead it will reaussure the world and enhance its own standing.

I don't believe that Iran does fear inspections. Unfortunately they are taking the stance that if no one believes them why should they comply. Now I agree that this is not helpful, but when you consider all the car-rap that has been thrown at them and the sanctions etc would you not feel like this?

edit on 19/11/2011 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)

On the 1st issue over the possibility of nuke enrichment, you too have your doubts. If there is even one bit of a doubt, then would it better to put it down to rest once and for all by allowing IAEA inspections, for the sake of all whom seek for peace?

On your second issue, regardless of angers or frustrations, as I mentioned, nukes are no small matter, IAEA inspections are the only solutions now to end any conflicts. Should there be nothing to hide, the Iranian would reap far more benefits from it than being belligerant, even if they feel they are entitled to such. It will end the call for sanctions with many other more rational states, and would be a great help to our fellow human brothers and sisters in Iran.

It is to this end that we all mankind must work towards, so that there will be no wars or threats of it in our already troubled world.

reply to post by popsmayhem

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Beating the war drums? What do you expect them to do, sit back and tell the world they are scared? They have to say something. They have to defend themselves and everything that the woman has said is probably no different to what anyone from your government has been saying for the past 10 years.

Iran has not attacked any country unless they have been attacked, the likes of a US backed Iraq comes to mind not so long ago. Iran has done nothing wrong on an international scale compared to what our countries have done since world war 2. Iran did not even attack Israel in them numerous wars after WW2 either.

The Internal side should be left internal and Israel should take a look at there own arsenal of weapons before preaching to the world about Iran. The most likely reason Iran are persuing Nukes is because Israel already have them and they see them as a threat to there country.

reply to post by PuterMan

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Really? Because in these exact words from the 2005 speech, he makes it pretty clear that it WAS the sentiment of the iranian people to remove isael from the map, here ya go from the wiki page:2005 "World Without Zionism" speechOn October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB), filed a story on Ahmadinejad's speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia, entitled: Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map.[1] The story was picked up by Western news agencies and quickly made headlines around the world. On October 30, The New York Times published a full transcript of the speech in which Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying:

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2]
Ahmadinejad said that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."

The speech indicated that he considered Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip to be a trick, designed to gain acknowledgment from Islamic states. In a rally held two days later, Ahmadinejad declared that his words reflected the views of the Iranian people, adding that Western world was free to comment, but its reactions

reply to post by AllUrChips

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Is that the same speech that was labelled incorrect, or are you talking about another one? If it is, I remember that he said he wanted to remove the Zionist regime and not Israel. There is a massive difference. Iran has Jews in Iran, do you seriously think they would start with Israel if they had a Nazi like approach with Jews?

reply to post by Redevilfan09

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I think it is hard for many people to study the history and seek the truth out.

Many people here are just following their feelings rather than logic.

" I feel that Iran is building a nuclear warhead makes me think that I am debating an ignorant arrogant 12 years old boy.

Many people here are under affection of MSM in their country.

They just work as a tape recorder. They just repeat what MSM is broadcasting.

Many people here don't feel like they are ignorant , so they don't bother denying ignorance. They already know and they think that debating is like a battle with winner or loser side.

I think that when I start denying ignorance I will be the winner. I will win my ignorance.

Regards.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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On the 1st issue over the possibility of nuke enrichment, you too have your doubts. If there is even one bit of a doubt, then would it better to put it down to rest once and for all by allowing IAEA inspections, for the sake of all whom seek for peace?

I am not sure that I do. A certain level of enrichment is needed for purposes other than military purposes. It is a fact that you can make a bomb without any enrichment at all so the argument that they are enriching to make weapons does not hold.

From memory weapons grade plutonium is around 90% enrichment. If it were to be proven that they had this capability then I would agree that they were probably headed down the nuclear weapon route.

On your second issue, regardless of angers or frustrations, as I mentioned, nukes are no small matter, IAEA inspections are the only solutions now to end any conflicts. Should there be nothing to hide, the Iranian would reap far more benefits from it than being belligerant, even if they feel they are entitled to such. It will end the call for sanctions with many other more rational states, and would be a great help to our fellow human brothers and sisters in Iran.

It is to this end that we all mankind must work towards, so that there will be no wars or threats of it in our already troubled world.

As I understand it, and I may be wrong, the Iranians are permitting access to their facilities. The IAEA (read Israel/US) is in effect saying that we don't believe you are showing us everything. If you are falsely accused of something it is natural to get belligerent. There is a subtle lesson here which the West is not seeing.

The Iranians are saying that they are complying in full, but because of the disbelief are now turning to the possibility that if the world will not believe them they should not bother to comply at all? This is of course wrong but one can see where they are coming from.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they have facilities for nuke production, and show them, then they will be attacked and if they deny they have such facilities they will still be attacked because the west chooses not to believe them.

Who should be the arbiter of whether they are telling the truth. THAT above all else is the crux of the matter. To push forward with an attack because we do not believe they have no facilities is Iraq all over again. Saddam did not have WMD but the west did not believe him. It finally transpired that he did not.

Must another 1,000,000 innocent people die only for the West to be proved wrong once again?

Must another nation be destroyed to make it conform to our viewpoints?

One of the most potent aids to peace in the middle east would be for Israel to submit to the IAEA as well.

reply to post by AllUrChips

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2005 "World Without Zionism" speechOn October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB), filed a story on Ahmadinejad's speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia, entitled: Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map

I just wonder to see how you ignore the last statements of Iranian leader and stick to the 2005 statements made by Ahmadinejad. While the recent statements , made it clear about how Iran will stand on Palestine issue.

I sent you that already : did you even read it ?

Two points should be clarified in advance. The first point is that our demand is the liberation of Palestine, not the liberation of a part of Palestine. Any plan to divide Palestine is completely unacceptable. The two-state idea which has been presented in the self-righteous clothing of "recognizing the Palestinian government as a member of the United Nations" is nothing but giving in to the demands of the Zionists - namely, "recognizing the Zionist government in Palestinian lands". This would mean trampling on the rights of the Palestinian nation, ignoring the historical right of the displaced Palestinians and even jeopardizing the right of the Palestinians settled in "1948 lands". It would mean leaving the cancerous tumor intact and exposing the Islamic Ummah - especially the regional nations - to constant danger. It would mean bringing back decades-long sufferings and trampling upon the blood of the martyrs.

Any operational solution must be based on the principle of "all of Palestine for all Palestinian people". Palestine is the land that extends "from the river to the sea", not one inch less than that. Of course it should be noted that through its elected government, the Palestinian people will run the affairs of the any part of the Palestinian soil they manage to liberate, just as they did in the case of Gaza, but they will never forget the ultimate goal.

The second point is that in order to reach this lofty goal, what is necessary is action, not words. It is necessary to be serious, not to make ceremonial gestures. It is necessary to have patience and wisdom, not engage in a variety of impatient actions. It is necessary to consider horizons that lie far ahead and to move forward step by step with determination, reliance on God and hope. Muslim governments and nations and the resistance groups in Palestine, Lebanon and other countries can each identify their share of work in this general struggle and solve the puzzle of resistance with Allah's permission.

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