Americans. How can you stand not having proper public health?

It constantly amazes me the America can consider it's self a first world nation when it has so very little free public health care. In a country such as mine free health care no matter how complicated or expensive is available to all, not just the destitute.
Doesn�t this make you angry that your government does not provide you with your democratic right of socialised medicine?

My government just makes me mad....

When I was a kid, a poor kid at that, my doctor lived up the street from me, I was best friends with his daughter. He would ask me how I felt every morning when I picked her up to walk to school. If I had any complaints that were easily treatable, he would treat it. He has a cellar full of drugs that he would give to his patients, and without insurance, or much money, even we could afford him. Now, lol, the doctors live in other towns in many cases, in really nice houses. The ceo's of the insurance companies pull in outrageous salaries and bonuses every year, and they get raises just about every year. and of course, since they have our friendly gov't guarenteeing them the patronage of the "poor", and the rich have no worries, well, it seems they can charge as much as they like, as long as they can come up with a few good excuses to convince the gov't it's needed.
Still, I don't like the idea of socialized medicine. Even now, they are looking at the cost that their subsidies and handouts are costing them, and well, they feel the need to control the actions of the population in an attempt to keep those prices down....a swift kick in the a.... of a few ceos and doctors would probably be just as effective.
The fact is, I can't afford their healthcare system. I've paid taxes that have funded the research and developement of new drugs. They have helped pay for the medical care of my "poor" neighbors kids when they had runny noses so the doctor could tell the mother her kids would be fine in a few days, nothing to worry about, and they have helped many get quite wealthy while they found the loopholes in the system and abused it to their benefit. but, it took my husband's boss calling one of my state senators and then him talking to a few doctors and hospitals before anyone would treat a broken ankle (needed an operation). Now, I owe more money for that treatment that I could make in about two years...

For some reason, I don't think I would have that much of a problem if they weren't throwing so much taxmoney into the system....the doctors, the ceo's, ect would probably have to lower their expectations or see a pretty big decrease in people seeking medical attention if they weren't paying for it, and well, that would cause them to lower those fees back into what would be affordable to me. IT's like the gov't, and society, have decided that hey, it isn't appropriate for these people other here to do without the care, so they took from some who had, and gave it to them, and we can do without instead, and of course that is perfectly acceptable!!


Although, I really doubt it's constitutionality.

If I had free health insurance, that would be it. Nothing would be too crazy for me. I would drink poison, jump off of anything, run/drive into anything, you name it and I would do it. But sadly, that is not the case. I must be careful.

Originally posted by joan12

Doesn�t this make you angry that your government does not provide you with your democratic right of socialised medicine?

I have never heard of this. I must have missed this in government class. Lemme go re-read the constitution.....

Hmmm can't seem to find where it says right to socilaised medicine...odd,
lemme keep looking.

still can't find it...
But isn't "democratic right to socialised medicine" an oxymoron?

Well, Joan, i'm sitting here with the sniffles, conjunctivitis and a nasty allergy that wont go away, and I dont have any health insurance.
I work full time, but the insurance would take such a large chunk out of my paycheck, that I cant afford it.
So...I have to wait till the 23rd of September, my next paycheck, when, if I am lucky, I might just have the $150.00 to go to a walk-in clinic and get some sort of medicine. Of course, by then this may have all cleared up.
OR, my eye would have fallen off with rot. Of course, then the medications will run me at least another $100.00 cash.
Its fun here in the USA in 2004!

Originally posted by Skibum

Originally posted by joan12

Doesn�t this make you angry that your government does not provide you with your democratic right of socialised medicine?

I have never heard of this. I must have missed this in government class. Lemme go re-read the constitution.....

Hmmm can't seem to find where it says right to socilaised medicine...odd,
lemme keep looking.

Not wishing to be offensive but I would consider free access to health care a taxpayers right in a Democracy weather it is in your constitution or not.
Back to the question why don't Americans complain about having no free health care for all?
It really is an extraordinary position for a nation such as yours to be in. Aren�t you angry? Why isn't it a huge political issue?

I believe its not free because of the massive amount of medical related lawsuits (mostly bs)....our huge amount of illegal immergrants who get emergency medical care but dont have to pay for it....and corruption within our drug companies...tie it all together...and its makes free health care for all nearly impossible...

I think it's hilarious that the Veterans Administration can't afford American doctors. So the US provides a VA doctor visa. Guys from Zambia, Iraq, Ethiopia, and India work on injured military vets.

For the amount of taxes we pay I think the government could afford it. If you're young and healthy you're ok. If you already have health insurange you're ok. If you get sick and you don't have health insurance you're screwed.

Originally posted by joan12
Not wishing to be offensive but I would consider free access to health care a taxpayers right in a Democracy weather it is in your constitution or not.
Back to the question why don't Americans complain about having no free health care for all?
It really is an extraordinary position for a nation such as yours to be in. Aren�t you angry? Why isn't it a huge political issue?

Its not a huge political issue period. Yes the systems has problems, but by and large people are not interested in such a system. If they were there would be more pressure to change the system.

There is a Free system avalible to people who do not have other forms of insurance called MediCare.
Each State has a systems as well. In Calfornia its called MediCAL

Socilized medicine does not mean the best care avalible. Much touted systems also have thier problems. Hmmmmmm the vaunted French system allowed 14,000 people to die last summer.

Or how many Canadians seek health care in the US because a particular procedure is not avalible or they have filled thier quota for the year? Its more than people would think.

Its funny how people assume because thier system is "free" or payed for by thier taxes that they have a surperior system. The tax structure in this country is different as well. its comparing apples and oranges.

Originally posted by joan12
It constantly amazes me the America can consider it's self a first world nation when it has so very little free public health care. In a country such as mine free health care no matter how complicated or expensive is available to all, not just the destitute.
Doesn�t this make you angry that your government does not provide you with your democratic right of socialised medicine?

Perhaps you would like to share what country you live in, so I can catalog the litany of abject failures in it's healthcare system. There is no "Right" to free or subsidized healthcare, yet it does (contrary to popular belief) exist in the U.S. Medicaid, indigent funds, deferments, free clinics, etc. (not to mention pro bono programs) exist in every community (yes, I know they do, I�ve spent the last 16 years traveling across the country in the healthcare industry) , that being said most people who complain about the lack of healthcare haven�t explored what is offered in their area.

Anecdotal note, I had a patient that spent all day Thursday traveling from China (PRC) and their �totally free� (free and China in the same sentence always cracks me up)healthcare: to be seen here in the U.S. on Friday (The Ohio State University), because he would rather pay for his healthcare (and his well being), nuff said. (True story)

�democratic right of socialised medicine� is just precious.

thats wht most of the world runs to the us for advanced surgery-because most of your lousy public health care is garbage.

you non americans need to learn to use soap and wash each day and wipe your butts-you all smell remember cleanliness is close to holiness

Originally posted by bigal66
thats wht most of the world runs to the us for advanced surgery-because most of your lousy public health care is garbage.

you non americans need to learn to use soap and wash each day and wipe your butts-you all smell remember cleanliness is close to holiness

Somebodies high on their pro-American drugs today

The reason why non-American countries don't have the the most up to date equipment and advanced surgery is because we look after everyone not just those who can pay to for it. We have fairly good medical care for all rather than really good medical care for the rich few.

Originally posted by bigal66
thats wht most of the world runs to the us for advanced surgery-because most of your lousy public health care is garbage.

you non americans need to learn to use soap and wash each day and wipe your butts-you all smell remember cleanliness is close to holiness

Mayday! We have a fag alert

For the life of me, I can't understand why people couldn't discuss this topic without resorting to personal attacks and insults.

Since I can't figure out why attacks and insults would fit into this discussion, and because I am watching it...maybe you should humor me and stop them all together...ok?

You have to admit that his post was just too funny not to comment it
- that social healthcare actually works to a certain extend can be seen in Germany. Quality healthcare for everyone - sure there are limitations but nobody dies because he is out of money for medicaments.

Unless it's not something uber-expensive. Talking about the standard illnesses now.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by joan12
It constantly amazes me the America can consider it's self a first world nation when it has so very little free public health care. In a country such as mine free health care no matter how complicated or expensive is available to all, not just the destitute.
Doesn�t this make you angry that your government does not provide you with your democratic right of socialised medicine?

Perhaps you would like to share what country you live in, so I can catalog the litany of abject failures in it's healthcare system. There is no "Right" to free or subsidized healthcare, yet it does (contrary to popular belief) exist in the U.S. Medicaid, indigent funds, deferments, free clinics, etc. (not to mention pro bono programs) exist in every community (yes, I know they do, I�ve spent the last 16 years traveling across the country in the healthcare industry) , that being said most people who complain about the lack of healthcare haven�t explored what is offered in their area.

Anecdotal note, I had a patient that spent all day Thursday traveling from China (PRC) and their �totally free� (free and China in the same sentence always cracks me up)healthcare: to be seen here in the U.S. on Friday (The Ohio State University), because he would rather pay for his healthcare (and his well being), nuff said. (True story)

�democratic right of socialised medicine� is just precious.

Okay, edumacate me on my options. No income, a couple hundred thousand in debt (last time I opened mail). Lost insurance a while ago.

Can I be a ward of the state yet?

Also, I think we used to be much more (what's the word?) so nobody freaks I'll say "centralized" and "efficient". I think we've moved more towards capitalist corporate medicine since the 70's. Reagen gutted alot.

Mirth may correct me on this as I was just the lucky recipient of free pens advertising Tuberculosis treatments, but we used to have State Hosptials and centalized State (i don't know) ordering and distrubiton centers? A family member once did some sort of Head Pharmacist job and ordered everything for the state in bulk based on projections. Big money saver. All that got gutted during the 80's "revolution" when everything shot through the freaking roof. She toured Russia for a while (selling blue jeans on the side) teaching them how to do it, until we decided capitalism saves more money ( ) and all non-elected democrats in government were fired for some strange reason.

The US is too busy spending billions and billions of finding new ways of killing people rather than trying to treat its own population with basic health needs.

There are 50 million people without health insurance in the US who cant afford treatment. Yeah, what a great country that is.

This is one area where I run the potential of being kicked out of good-standing as a conservative Republican. lol

There is absolutely no "right" to any form of health care system whatsoever.

BUT, with that fact stated, there have been two unacceptable trends take place in America - ok, make that three:

1. Medicine becoming big business due to the "big business" that insurance is.
2. Every one losing their brains and forgetting what insurance was for. Originally, medical insurance was for catastrophic events...not every time you stub your toe.
3. America's belief - due to 1 and 2 above - that "exceptional measures" should be expected. No they shouldn't. If you're a motorcycle rider without a helmet and half your head is gone this is the care you should get: Complete pain relief until you're gone. If you're 94 years old and you're dying...you should have complete pain relief until you're dead. America has come to believe that every single death should be prevented or delayed as long as dollarly possible - and even when it isn't dollarly possible - then the non-pay on the extreme measures gets sunk back into the "big business" goal of profit and the rest of us have to pay.

I don't really care what the "failures" of a national health care system are. Most likely most of them are inconveniences, and loss of the un-needed "extreme measures". If the U.S. health care cost problem is ever to be addressed and FIXED - it must be a complete overhaul that moves away from insurance companies, and toward a nationalized health care system.

We'll get better doctors that way too - they'll go into medicine because they want to, not because of the mansion they're working for.

[edit on 9-5-2004 by Valhall]

Originally posted by RANT
Okay, edumacate me on my options. No income, a couple hundred thousand in debt (last time I opened mail). Lost insurance a while ago.

Can I be a ward of the state yet?

Also, I think we used to be much more (what's the word?) so nobody freaks I'll say "centralized" and "efficient". I think we've moved more towards capitalist corporate medicine since the 70's. Reagen gutted alot.

Mirth may correct me on this as I was just the lucky recipient of free pens advertising Tuberculosis treatments, but we used to have State Hosptials and centalized State (i don't know) ordering and distrubiton centers? A family member once did some sort of Head Pharmacist job and ordered everything for the state in bulk based on projections. Big money saver. All that got gutted during the 80's "revolution" when everything shot through the freaking roof. She toured Russia for a while (selling blue jeans on the side) teaching them how to do it, until we decided capitalism saves more money (

) and all non-elected democrats in government were fired for some strange reason.

I'll save the "how John Edwards wrecked healthcare in the Carolinas" post for some other time.

To your plight RANT, I offer this. If I have the wrong state, or you have other information please u2u me (HIPAA stuff you know).

Ordering pharmaceuticals in bulk can be just as big a money �waster� as saver. Expired drugs have to be destroyed, and are a common �cost� of doing business in the medical field. My pet peeve is all the advertising to lay people about certain pharmaceuticals, your physician is painfully aware of what will clear up allergies, relieve arthritis pain , or �make� the misses happy, if you know what I mean. You don�t need to tell him what to order, period (I will brace myself for all the �my doctor is so stupid� replies� if he�s stupid, fire him and get another one� you can do that� at least in the U.S. you can).

As to blaming �Reagen�, I don�t know who he is , but President Reagan was much maligned on the economic side of healthcare, which was undeserved. I will say that his response, or lack thereof on the HIV/AIDS epidemic was not his finest moment, and it was not until after the death of his friend Rock Hudson that any move towards addressing this devastating illness was made, and it was insignificant in face of the magnitude of HIV/AIDS.