Homeschooling - Is It Effective?, page 2

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reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 09:13 AM by Bonkeman

I am in a Public school and I gotta admit there are some stupid people here.

But the chicks are hot

edit on 5-12-2011 by Bonkeman because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 10:04 AM by apacheman

As a college instructor, I had the opportunity to teach a few home-schooled students in the eleven years I taught.

My experience with them left me with grave doubts about the efficacy of the process.

The problem in my view is that while some parents are involved, informed, and have a talent for imparting knowledge, most are too narrow, lack the time, energy, and commitment to to the job properly, and those most likely to home-school are those most likely to do so for the wrong reasons.

What home schooling usually lacks is breadth, depth, and fact-checking.

Some, not all, of my home-schoolers were appallingly ignorant or appallingly misinformed about history and social issues. Most knew little of geography and science beyond the very basics. A few were brilliantly educated, but they wee in a tiny minority.

Some of them had very outlandish ideas about the nature of the universe and the people who inhabit this particular planet.

What seemed to transmitted most effectively were the parents' prejudices and religious views, many of which were quite at odds with what passes for reality among everyone else.

If the parents are dedicated, have the time, the energy, an extensive education themselves, and have an open mind with the ability to teach, then it can work out wonderfully.

If they lack a few of those characteristics, then the results are less than optimum; the more they lack, the worse off their pupils are. Most of those home-schooled for religious reasons were abysmally ignorant and lacked the proper foundations for true learning; they had to unlearn a lot of nonsense before being able to function well at the college level, it usually retarded their progress by a year or two, and some could never make the adjustment.

Does home-schooling work effectively?

In rare cases, yes, but mostly, not so well.

The world is too complex for two people to know it well enough to teach their offspring effectively while attending to the requirements of daily life.

It truly does take a village.

edit on 5-12-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 10:21 AM by FlyersFan

I found your entire post disturbing. Considering I have a daughter getting ready to go to college soon, I certainly hope that your thought process isn't the way most teachers think. Probably the most disturbing thing you said was -

Originally posted by apacheman
Some of them had very outlandish ideas about the nature of the universe and the people who inhabit this particular planet.What seemed to transmitted most effectively were the parents' prejudices and religious views, many of which were quite at odds with what passes for reality among everyone else.

Your ... um ... experience ... is in direct opposition to the facts presented by the HSLDF Homeschoolers take standardized tests and, for the most part, score much higher than their public school counterparts. The students are engaged in numerous activities with other children throughout the week and are well socialized. They are SAFE from the drug and bully culture that runs amuk in the public schools.

As for your comment about them having 'very outlandish ideas' ... if you are referring to belief in a creator, that isn't 'outlandish' ... If you are referring to the belief that evolution is one unproven theory among many, that isn't 'outlandish ... and seeing through liberal BS that is pumped through the schools isn't 'outlandish'.

Your use of loaded words is transparent. Are you a member of the NEA?

Those teachers unions HATE home school.
Every homeschooled child is one less child in their system.
It's one less kid they can brainwash with liberal doctrine.
It's one less kid filling a classroom creating a job for teachers.
Less teachers = less union dues paid.
Oh yes ... the teachers unions HATE homeschool.
They love to pump out information about it that simply isn't true.

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 10:29 AM by autowrench

reply to post by apacheman

Some, not all, of my home-schoolers were appallingly ignorant or appallingly misinformed about history and social issues. Most knew little of geography and science beyond the very basics. A few were brilliantly educated, but they wee in a tiny minority. Some of them had very outlandish ideas about the nature of the universe and the people who inhabit this particular planet. What seemed to transmitted most effectively were the parents' prejudices and religious views, many of which were quite at odds with what passes for reality among everyone else.

You are obviously talking about kids in Christian home schooling. ECOT is not like that at all. Our 10 year old is very intelligent, and he knows things even his brother, in Public School, does not know.

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 10:47 AM by Neysa

reply to post by luciddream

I find your comments extremely insulting and ignorant.
Is public school the only place where a child is with others of their own age? Absurd!
My daughter is very social. She has many sleepovers and get togethers with her friends. She participates in the online school sponsered events which are fantastic. She belongs to the debate club. She has a very active social life and is happy and well adjusted.
Brick and mortar schools are NOT the only place to be social.

NEW STUDY SHOWS HOMESCHOOLERS EXCEL ACADEMICALLY

Purcellville, VA—Today, HSLDA released a new study: the Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics, conducted by Dr. Brian Ray of the National Home Education Research Institute, which surveyed 11,739 homeschooled students for the 2007–08 academic school year. The results were consistent with previous studies on homeschool academic achievement and showed that homeschoolers, on average, scored 37 percentile points above public school students on standardized achievement tests.

The Washington Times-HOMESCHOOLING:socialising not a problem

In part to address this question from a research perspective, the Home School Legal Defense Association commissioned a study in 2003 titled “Homeschooling Grows Up,” conducted by Mr. Ray, to discover how home-schoolers were faring as adults. The news was good for home-schooling. In all areas of life, from gaining employment, to being satisfied with their home-schooling, to participating in community activities, to voting, home-schoolers were more active and involved than their public school counterparts.

edit on 5-12-2011 by Neysa because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 11:13 AM by apacheman

reply to post by FlyersFan

By outlandish, I meant that they had trouble with simple obvious things like cause and effect. Some, not all, some, believed that divine intervention could override physics. Others had some pretty bizarre versions of history that in no way related to actual history as we accept it. And yes, creationists were the most ignorant of reality, and had the narrowest education, sorry, but that is the truth of the matter.

For the record, my students, including the home-schooled ones, mostly considered me one of the best teachers they ever had. A few weeks ago, a former student stopped me while shopping to thank me and tell me she was still making use of what I taught her many years ago. This happens every few months or so.

Not all home schooling is equal and not all home-schooled test out.

No, I am not a member of NEA.

And I'd like to mention that as a Native American, I had/have little faith in the competitive education model: I used cooperative education techniques in my classrooms, for which practice I was roundly criticized at times. But I produced superior students who could actually think for themselves because I taught them to. I encouraged them to challenge me if they felt anything I said was incorrect, but to challenge me with offsetting proofs. On occasion I deliberately misstated something to see if they would, and scolded them if they didn't.

Home-schooling can work, but often doesn't, just as public education can work, but often doesn't. Good teaching requires a broad and deep knowledge of, well, everything, tons of time and energy, and talent. Good teachers are hard to find, excellent ones are even harder. Being a parent doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher. Good and excellent teachers who know everything are impossible to find, which is why you need several in different fields.

I've had more than my share of public education, so I think I can say more about it than most: I went to 13 different schools in four different states and two countries growing up while skipping a grade (and making the conscious decision not to do that again). The quality of education varies tremendously in my experience. But one common factor that makes even the very best fail is the notion that sending your child to school is the sum total of the parents' responsibility. The public education system is only a part of the education process. That process must be supervised and supplemented by the parents, and the knowledge imparted placed in their proper contexts.

Too few parents are willing or able to interact with their children, draw them out, discuss the implications of their education, give them some insights and contexts. It takes too long, requires too much energy and thought, and the business world demands too much of them. Dear old bossman wants his employees to spend their hometime working on his business, not their children. I lay the problems with education somewhat on the schools, somewhat on the parents, but mostly upon the business community and the 40-hr workweek paradigm.

That paradigm was designed for an industrial labor force that no longer exists, and for a society that was far simpler and less demanding that also no longer exists. A case can be made that a proper work week in modern times at a living wage should be no more than 24 hours a week if we are to properly fulfill our roles as parents and citizens.

I've no problem with alternative eduction models, I've introduced a few myself. But to say home-schooling is better or worse per se is too broad for me. It can be better, it is usually worse (from my experience), but the same can be said of public schooling.

Bottom line is that home-schooling is education by amateurs, persons with good intent but without the depth of knowledge needed for the task and perhaps without the talent for it. Well done it is a marvel to behold the product, poorly done it is saddening. If you choose to home school, please be careful to educate yourself as well, and try to stay ahead of your student. Sometimes doing the job right means imparting knowledge that makes you uncomfortable, but that goes with the territory.: it is necessary to provide the student with several different ways of looking at the same thing and trusting them to find the truth for themselves, even if that truth is somewhat different from yours.

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 11:45 AM by Perturabo

I only have experience of homeschooling from the outside, but I can agree that the outcome is heavily dependent on the parents and their reasons for homeschooling.

A few years ago I was involved with a family who had removed their two children from formal education (note the distinction) and the result was less than encouraging. The younger of the two could barely read or write at 18, and considered anyone who could to have wasted their time in learning. He had no qualifications of any kind and relied on his parents to produce a CV for him when he attempted to get a job. The elder had made the effort, and was considering university, but was dissuaded by the parents. And that's the crux of the matter, far as I see it.Their parents wanted them to remain in their isolated lifestyle to help with various projects of theirs. They were entirely beholden to them.

On the other hand, my girlfriend and her two siblings were all homeschooled and are as intelligent, well rounded and socially adept as anyone. Certainly more so than me, with regards to the social side of things. They've always been part of a group with regular meetings with various scheduled talks and activities, as well as time for free play with kids of a variety of ages. I don't think anyone can categorically say it's either good or bad. It all depends on ability and intent.

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 11:48 AM by aprilc1

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
I doubt it...it would be just a way for parents to instill their crazy beliefs on their children.

Crazy beliefs ... like the belief that actually learning to read and do math so that you can get a job and support yourself and not expect a free ride on the taxpayer ... like the belief that you should be able to learn in a safe environment ... like the belief that sex education doesn't need to be taught to 1st graders ... like the belief that a student shouldn't be subjected to the governments version of 'truth' as opposed to reality, ... yep, those are crazy beliefs.

Maybe because homeschooling is so prevalent in America...that would explain the average american and stupidity...

The vast majority of children are not homeschooled. Perhaps if more were, then there wouldn't be as many problems like we get from the 'finished product' from the overcrowded/failing public schools ...

edit on 12/5/2011 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Children are so much better off in government schools where they have to walk through metal detectors to drop their babies off at day care-I seriously considered homeschooling and now they have public online acadamies where they can work at home

reply posted on 5-12-2011 @ 11:52 AM by Neysa

reply to post by aprilc1

My daughter attends an online public school. The state considers them Charter schools.
See my reply to OP on page one.

reply posted on 14-12-2011 @ 02:18 PM by therealdemoboy

reply to post by whaaa

I know right-wing christians whose kids are public schooled. They're messed up beyond belief. You can't blame home-schooling per se. It's the entire environment that they're brought up in.

reply posted on 14-12-2011 @ 02:32 PM by circlemaker

If the parents actually teach their kids instead of expecting the books to do it for them it can be more effective than both public and private school.

edit on 12/14/2011 by circlemaker because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 03:33 PM by Ambrose169

Homeschooling is a great idea. And it doesn't have to mean that parents take up loads of their time doing it. It can be shared among a group of parents (depending on what each one specialises in), and take place in various homes.

reply posted on 18-12-2011 @ 03:46 PM by Montana

Public schools will provide a superb education.... IF the parents are involved, encouraging, helpful and attentive.

Homeschooling will provide a superb education.... IF the parents are involved, encouraging, helpful and attentive.

The school doesn't matter near as much as the parents matter.

reply posted on 19-12-2011 @ 06:52 PM by VoidHawk

A good parent does not force his/her religion upon a child, they will allow that child to make up their own mind so using examples of children messed up by religion in this thread is unfair. Also those parents would have done the same whether their child was home schooled or not.

My daughter has a two year old son and he already knows the entire alphabet, can count, can read many words, can log on and navigate the internet. All this was achieved simply by listening and answering his questions. Take him to the seaside and he'll tell you what creatures live in the sea shells, take him to the park and he'll tell you the names of the flowers, he unpacks the grocerys and reads the labels and puts them in the correct cupboard, he helps with the cooking and knows how to use and read the scales, he is bold and full of confidence and to be quite honest he knows more than children four times his own age.
The socialising issue. Who wants to socialise with bullys drug dealers and thieves? much better to socialise with other well balanced home schooled children.

reply posted on 21-12-2011 @ 01:19 AM by Byrd

reply to post by perpetualmotion

I'm not impressed with home schooling. Here's my big issue with it (I do have family members who homeschool): they actually don't spend 8 hours per day teaching. If the homeschooling parent is ill or has an emergency, the time gets lost. School can also be interrupted for various emergencies and discipline isn't always consistent.

If a teacher is ill or needs leave, there's a substitute and the day proceeds as usual. If the absence is more than a week, the substitute is obliged to take up the lesson plans (I've done this.)

In home schooling, this continuity is lost and sometimes the impetus for school work is lost. I've seen this frequently.

IN general, they tend to be more confident but frequently are more poorly educated in many areas.

Disclaimer: This is not true of private schools. In my experience with education, private schools produce a much stronger scholar.

reply posted on 21-12-2011 @ 02:04 AM by snarfbot

yes, from personal experience.

it depends on the kid, in my case i was kinda shy, so i was better able to ask questions and learn without feeling self conscious in the home environment.

also my teacher was alot more thorough and dedicated, rather than just teaching the curiculum the bare minimum that will be covered on an exam for instance, it was ensured that i actually understood the material, even if it meant putting aside the textbook and going through encyclopedias, or a trip to the library even.

also theres lots of stuff in the text books, at least back when i was in school that was incomplete, or sometimes completely incorrect. it wasnt until later years that you learned that what you had previously learned was wrong, and such.

also we would start whenever we woke up, and it only took a few hours, unlike real school, it was great.

anyway, i was only homeschooled for one year and pretty much aced everything from that point on. so id say it works really well if it works for you.

in my situation, we were living in a bad area for a year, so my parents didnt want me in the public school, until we found a new place. best thing that ever happened to me honestly.

reply posted on 21-12-2011 @ 02:08 AM by catwhoknowsplusone

reply to post by perpetualmotion

I tried home schooling - it did not work because I did not have the authority of a teacher.

I think your kids have to view you as their parents.

And they have to view their teachers as other authorities.

reply posted on 21-12-2011 @ 02:37 AM by Byrd

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I found your entire post disturbing. Considering I have a daughter getting ready to go to college soon, I certainly hope that your thought process isn't the way most teachers think. Probably the most disturbing thing you said was -

Originally posted by apacheman
Some of them had very outlandish ideas about the nature of the universe and the people who inhabit this particular planet.What seemed to transmitted most effectively were the parents' prejudices and religious views, many of which were quite at odds with what passes for reality among everyone else.

Your ... um ... experience ... is in direct opposition to the facts presented by the HSLDF Homeschoolers take standardized tests and, for the most part, score much higher than their public school counterparts.

However, the data was collected by a group supporting home schooling, I believe.

I'm a volunteer eco-educator for Audubon, and I find that homeschooling is very inconsistent. I would agree that some kids need to be homeschooled, but like Apacheman I have seen a lot of kids who are educated to accept only a very narrow viewpoint and who have very black and white viewpoints.

Science isn't black and white. It's a lot of shades of gray. They aren't well prepared to deal with ambiguity or contrarian viewpoints.

This is my own experience here in Texas, having taught 6,000 students a three hour course in the past 2 years.

reply posted on 23-12-2011 @ 06:21 PM by markisa

I have a friend who do homeschooling. She and all of her brothers and sisters did that. Not for security reasons but just because they don't want to go to school. When she (my friend) went to highschool and decided to study in a real school, she was really awkward and don't want to hangout with anyone (Or is afraid to). She just go to some place every break. Guess that's one bad effect of homeschooling.

reply posted on 30-12-2011 @ 10:14 PM by Astyanax

It is now known that the most important and necessary influence on a child's psychological development is not its parents or other adult figures, but its peers. Humans are social animals, and we need to learn social interaction from a very early age. Have you noticed how at family parties, the little kids, the big kids and the teenagers all form social groupings of their own, distinct from each others' and the adults'?

Human children have always been raised in groups, from our hunter-gatherer beginnings onwards. While their mothers were out food-gathering or doing 'household' chores, the children of the band or tribe would be looked after by the elder women, the grandmothers of the tribe. This is the natural way for children to be raised.

Home schooling is developmentally unnatural, and places a child far too much in the power of its parents. And unless there is a very important practical reason for home schooling (such as the child being developmentally unusual, or the locality being too thinly populated to support a school), the only reason for a parent to choose home schooling for their child is that the parent is to some extent a social misfit himself or herself. Of course, many of you would wear the label 'social misfit' as a badge of pride; still, I think your children deserve to make up their own minds about their relationship with the world.

Home school your child if you want to raise yet another half-educated social misfit to swell the membership rolls of Above Top Secret.

edit on 30/12/11 by Astyanax because: so as not to be a creep.

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