Top 5 Misconceptions About People Struggling Economically Today

reply to post by MrXYZ


no, OWS will do it for them, then they can blame OWS people later, and put them all on the guilt trip that whitey's been on for the last 50 years. well that is, if there are any whitey left.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

no, OWS will do it for them, then they can blame OWS people later, and put them all on the guilt trip that whitey's been on for the last 50 years. well that is, if there are any whitey left.

This isn't about color, it's about $$$$! And like I said, no one will be killed off, they need everyone to foot the bill so the top 1% can pay less taxes, so that they can hand over billions in "subsidies" to their corporate donors, so that they can get the US in pointless wars so their defence contractor donors get paid, and and and.

Someone needs to pay for it, and that "someone" is you...so why one earth would they kill you off?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

no, OWS will do it for them, then they can blame OWS people later, and put them all on the guilt trip that whitey's been on for the last 50 years. well that is, if there are any whitey left.

This isn't about color, it's about $$$$! And like I said, no one will be killed off, they need everyone to foot the bill so the top 1% can pay less taxes, so that they can hand over billions in "subsidies" to their corporate donors, so that they can get the US in pointless wars so their defence contractor donors get paid, and and and.

Someone needs to pay for it, and that "someone" is you...so why one earth would they kill you off?

it doesn't matter. they make money out of thin air and own the planet. no, friend, they are about to massage the entire ows movement into mass genocide and not just in the usa, but all over the world. it's been building up for a long time now and the shift from them to the average joe on the street, is about to take place, particularly if the economy (which only exists for our benefit at this juncture and which is easily manipulated to their benefit) crashes, because now, just every day people who resemble in any fashion, the stereotypes that have been building up over the years, will be enemy number one.

it's in all the songs. in the art. in the movies. even in ancient texts. you KNOW.

reply to post by undo


You nailed it. It's choreographed. They really pull our strings when they play with the economy, don't they?

Yea, all of my problems are because someone wouldn't give me _______________________(insert your excuse).

If you give me ______________________(insert wishes here), I'll be able to get on my feet again.

Fox news screams and yell about a failed solar energy project that if it had worked out would have created thousands of jobs but say nothing of all the failed banking mafia who have bilked billions from the American public. Solindra lost about half a billion on the otherside just one wall street exec made over half a billion in one year. The current structure is criminal.

Our country could be completly energy independent by replaceing the infrastructure with wind and solar and at the same time it would put America back to work. Our gov has failed us.

I have been lucky when I was in the military I put a third of what I made into savings after all when I was stateside I only needed gas and beer money and overseas there wasn't much to spend our money on.

It is easyier to make money if you have money I now live on interest from the money I invested. It is enough but I still can't find a job so I may just start my own buisness making windmills I made one for my house a couple years ago and it is so easy I don't see why they arn't everywhere. As a country as the people if we all made ouselves independant we could really make a differance.

I will post this link for those who have some money to invest at least look at it. It takes power away from banks and may be one of the only ways this country will get back on track.

Investing with your neighbor

reply to post by Grimpachi


dude, stop for a moment and think about what you just said:

both sides are bilking americans out of their material possessions.
and why would that be, do you think?

Originally posted by Epirus
I really think some people are confused or ignoring the problem. It could just be coming from those who haven't witnessed or been affected by it who fail to recognize it. Maybe people just want to avoid/ignore it and hope it goes away, I don't know. I see a lot of judging and blaming going on in ignorance to the diversity involved with the problem. Blame it on laziness or whatever makes you feel okay and able to sleep at night but in the end the problem is real and it's not just going to go away. The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Top 5 Misconceptions About People Struggling Economically Today

#5 I'm not in debt so why are you?(My parents have money and I don't have school loans)

It's important to realize that not everyone's situation is the same and if someone is paying hundreds of dollars in school loans while you had a free ride thanks to mom and dad(or plenty of other legitimate/respectful ways in which you were able to get through school without needing loans) you are making a lot more than them even if you have the same salary. No one is asking you to fix this or feel sorry for those paying the loans but by no means should you be comparing your financial situation to theirs in a judgmental way. (I make the same amount and can pay my rent why can't he/she?)

#4 I have a job so anyone can get a job(The world revolves around me and all is relevant)

Not all professions are the same and some people got lucky with the right timing. No one is mad at you if you have a job(GRATZ!) or expects you to pay for the unemployed to lay around and eat Cheetos... if you think this you are missing the point.

#3 Anyone can start a business and make it big(Look at Bill Gates)

Right...

#2 Mcdonalds is always hiring(Work at McDonalds and you'll be able to pay your debt)

So every time a company lays off hundreds if not thousands of workers who have families and prior payment agreements while equivalent jobs fail to pop up they are supposed to go to McDonalds....make $7 hour and everything will be okay? I'm sure they'll be able to pay their debt since adjusting from over 3000 a month to hundreds a month is so easy. Just buy less and go to the movies less, right? Maybe the kids can eat once a day?

#1 Make better decisions(Stop buying drugs and TVs and you'll be okay)

Cause people on unemployment enjoy the hell out of it and can't wait to use the ~$100-400 weekly unemployment check(which used to be over ~$700-1000 check while employed ) to buy a big TV or some more drugs, right? They just want to lay around and live off your hard work...how lazy!

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A poor me thread?
Ok, I will play.

First

#5 I'm not in debt so why are you?(My parents have money and I don't have school loans)

Really? This is a glimpse into how you view the world. Parents having money or not does not matter.
I am a person that chose to work and pay for college for myself and spouse. No loan taken. Penny by penny.
So, it can be done.

Second

#4 I have a job so anyone can get a job(The world revolves around me and all is relevant)

You do realize the hypocrisy with stating this within your own thread?
The issue is that I am expected to work and provide for myself, why aren't you?
From past articles at the start of the down turn, people would withhold from taking a low job, in hopes that the old job would come back. And the mentality that you can't work a job and search for something better. It was poor choice after poor choice.


Third

#3 Anyone can start a business and make it big(Look at Bill Gates)

Yes, yes they can. And to think that they can't shows just how incompetent you think others are. You lack the ability to view everyone as a person that can succeed, and not someone who can't and needs help with everything.

Fourth

#2 Mcdonalds is always hiring(Work at McDonalds and you'll be able to pay your debt)

It can be done. Stop complaining and acting like you or anyone is below this job. It is work. Expecting your old job back is not reality.
Complain and enjoy not having a job, or work and make at least a little pay.

Fifth

#1 Make better decisions(Stop buying drugs and TVs and you'll be okay)

It has little to do with drugs at this point, and more so with the poor choices made by the person.
A poor choice with going into debt $75k for school. Poor choice for getting the $350k house on an adjustable interest only loan and so on.
The individual is responsible for their own actions and path through life.

reply to post by Komaratzi11


Your math is off: $450 + $150 +$50 = $650, not $550.

So there isn't even $75 left over, rather there is a $25 shortfall.

And where I live, nothing is available for less than $600 a month, and the price of gas is usually nearly the highest in the nation.

What the "work harder, you're just lazy" folks don't seem to get is that no matter how hard you are willingly to work, the payoff at minimum wage isn't worth making the investment.

Think of the minimum wage worker as a small businessperson: calculate what the total living expenses are, without the x-boxes, games, designer clothes, drugs, booze, etc that everyone thinks the poor waste their money on, just rent, transportation, insurance (both vehicle and health), clothing, communications (necessary for work), food.

Subtract that number from the pay for the average number of hours of available work per week, usually less than 40, last I checked it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 31 hours a week, after deducting taxes. What you get is a negative number.

What business can sustain itself when it is constantly losing money?

Where I live, the least you can expect to pay for a small one bedroom apartment is $600 a month, not including utilities. Gas is $3.70+ a gallon for the last year. Minimum wage is $8.00/hr, average work week is 32.9 hrs.

A decrease in average hours worked per week was also a factor in the 1.9% year-over-year growth in earnings in August. The average work week declined 0.3% from 33.0 hours in August 2010 to 32.9 hours in August 2011. Average hours fell in both the goods and services sectors.

www.statcan.gc.ca...

That gives a pre-tax income of $263.20, or $13,686.40 a year before taxes.

Assuming a withholding tax rate of 35%, including state, federal, social security, medicare, and disability insurance that leaves $8,896.16 take-home pay. You get some of the taxes back at the end of the year, but in the meantime, it's a loss.

Rent at $600 a month is $7,200, leaving $1,696.16 per year for other things, like utilities, communications, food.

The cheapest phone service I've found is $35 a month, and phones are an absolute necessity in today's world, so that cost is $420 a year, leaving $1,296.16.

Average utiltities cost per month for my area $96.41, or $1,156.92.

www.whitefenceindex.com...

That leaves $139.24 or $11.61 a month for food, gas, insurance, and clothing.

I don't care how frugal you are, or what corners you cut, you can't survive on that.

That leaves most with no alternative but to accept welfare, especially if they have kids.

We had over 1,200 people show up for 4 announced job openings at McDonald's recently, so just saying get a second job is wildly out of touch with reality, and puts paid to the theory that people are just lazy.

Those of you making good money are doing so at the expense of everyone else. Perhaps you should take a pay cut so that more can be employed at a living wage, so they can pay taxes and support themselves, too.

People who just don't get it don't want to face reality, nor do they have the ability to do so. I think it's important here to note that a percentage of any given population, thankfully not a large percentage, but enough to create a negative impact, who are out-of-touch with reality, are completely lacking in the ability to feel genuine, authentic compassion and empathy. They often appear to be normal, but are detached from human emotions, devoid of genuine feelings.They only pretend to have empathy so that they can reel their victims in.

For those who are not disconnected, and who therefore have the ability to feel empathy, it's very hard to comprehend. We can't just get empathy. Many people with empathy (Empaths) seem to take this ability for granted. One either has empathy or they don't. Those who do have genuine empathy and compassion tend to assume others do ... when that is NOT true.

Think about it -- what kind of a person tells someone they must have screwed up if they lost their house or they are in debt or they do not have food or access to health-care. Who does that? ... someone with an above average level of social/emotional intelligence and who has genuine empathy and compassion .. I doubt it.

Firstly, we have to have the ability to feel it, meaning that part of the brain must have developed properly during the formative years (0-25 -- between birth and 25 yrs of age) AND then we also must have learned to feel empathy for others by experiencing it and by being surrounded by people who have empathy. The brain also cannot possibly develop properly during pre-adolescence and adolescence when one engages in heavy drug or alcohol abuse and/or are surrounded by regular on-going abuse and dysfunction during these formative years.

As a result, the brain is emotionally stunted and does not mature beyond late adolescence. So, the individual then goes on to become a full-grown adult, but with an adolescent brain, which means they will consistently put others down instead of being kind, helpful and finding or offering solutions. They really aren't capable of feeling anything for anyone. Some of these emotionally stunted people without empathy are ... narcissists and some are sociopaths or psychopaths. ALL of these people are extremely dangerous in some way. THEY are the reason the country is on a downward spiral.

Everything to them is a game, meaning they approach everything in life, including running the country, relationships, marriage, child-rearing and custody, and climbing the corporate ladder (to name a few) are all approached as a game, so that there is a winner and a loser. They drag others down so that they can win at their expense. But, if we don't let them drag us down, they won't be successful. They win by dragging others down because they do NOT have empathy. It just isn't there. That part of their brain never developed. Quite often, they look normal and they are often charming or witty and they might even be intellectually intelligent, but their social/emotional intelligence (EQ) is way, way below average, even if their IQ happens to be average or well above average.

So, the only people who actually lack empathy fall into one or the other category -- they are either narcissistic and/or sociopathic/psychopathic. Most of these people who lack the ability to feel genuine empathy are not behind bars, nor are they diagnosed. They are free to become leaders, run the country, roam the streets, to work in Corporate America and to post comments anonymously that make others feel badly.

Their game is to bring others to a dark place and they do this by blaming the victim. They do not have the ability to see the whole picture, and therefore they can only feel good IF AND WHEN they make others feel badly. They love money, not people. These toxic people are nothing more than an immature, unruly, difficult adolescent (with some street smarts and/or an education) in the body of a normal looking adult.

People who buy into any of these misconceptions, distortions and myths do so as they use these untruths as a weapon ... how convenient, as myths and misconceptions provide them with one of the tools they need to abuse others ... especially those down on their luck ... Tool + Victim = Abuse. People who do this are either a classic narcissist OR a textbook sociopath. Both are equally as dangerous, even though most of them are not serial killers, murderers, bank robbers or rapists. They are ignorant know-it-alls, toxic bullies who think they must make others feel badly because it's the only way they can feel good. It is actually a miserable existence.

Why would anyone want to convince those who don't have the ability to connect or to relate to anything outside of their own pathetic world, but only to attack and to belittle or shame others? It's like asking a blind person to drive you to the store.

Great post OP ... bringing about awareness is always a good thing. Thank-you.

reply to post by peck420



What you fail to understand is that boycotts only work when the supplier has no alternatives, a condition that doesn't exist in our economy.

Boycott gas? They'll just sell it to China, and you'll lose your job if you keep it up long enough to have an effect.

Boycott a particular brand? S'alright, there's several others that are owned by the same company under different names.

Students protest college fees? Campus cops will bust their heads or pepperspray them, and business goes on as usual, except maybe the fee increase will only be 5% instead of 10%.

Boycotts are a very limited tool in today's markets, the result of a lack of competition due to concentration of the means of production and distribution into very few hands: whichever way you turn, the money you spend goes to the same people, and you gotta eat and pay bills. Boycotts are pretty laughable today.

Originally posted by Infrasilent
reply to post by Laokin

 

I'm sorry for your bad luck. At the end of the day though, what do you propose we do about it? It isn't anyone's fault that those things happened to you, and no amount of apologizing or monetary disbursement is going to fix them.

Also, you need to understand that a university education won't automatically improve your life or even your financial security. That attitude has locked plenty of people into de facto slavery. If you're smart, you can be successful just about anywhere. You honestly think the Mark Zuckerberg's of the world needed to go to Harvard to succeed? College is just a place to help you cram a bunch of knowledge into your head quickly-- what you do with that knowledge is up to you-- and you can always get it other places. For example, in many states it is possible to become a lawyer simply by being a slave to one for a couple years-- That's a lot cheaper than many law schools.

You seem to be stuck in the paradigm that our government created-- that you MUST go to college or you're doomed to be a bag checker forever. That simply is not the case, and on some level you know it. You're simply holding onto hope that a piece of paper is going to change your life forever.

Whether you know it or not, you're under mind control right now. If your public school was anything like mine, they told you college was the ONLY way, and that if you didn't get into the top name university you were DOOMED. They also tried to to tell you that everyone is created equal, that you owe allegiance to an object, that drugs will unequivocally destroy you, that the Vietnam conflict had some sort of merit, and that public entities actually give a crap what happens to you.

They lied.

No I get that. I wasn't ever saying the contrary -- it's just that, a downward economic spiral isn't helping the people who already have it rough. Less jobs = less places to work, less places to work = less people working, less people working = more people needing loans and help, etc.

All I was saying is, it's a silly notion to disagree with the OPs assertions. I didn't end up where I am because of anything but a string of bad luck and random chance. It's certainly not because I don't fight as hard as the rest of you...

This is the only point I was trying to illustrate. Some people DON'T have a choice.

(And my degree is computer science major w/ a focus on application programming. Once I can write programs, I can make my own income. It's about as solid a plan as any, and it's not a 50,000$ debt either. So, yeah -- I'm cool with it.)

P.S.

I don't even know if it's my intention to finish school. I aim to keep the debt to a minimum. I plan on going because I've tried alternative ways to learn programming, but nothing beats a premium class specifically designed to teach those skills to someone who doesn't have them.

Once I've obtained the knowledge I'm seeking, depending on whats left on the degree and how much more debt I will incur trying to obtain said degree will determine whether or not I even get the piece of paper.

The paper is worthless, the knowledge is priceless.

I'm not as lost as it may seem.

P.P.S.

I have a heavy background in application scripting. I tend to make programs better with patch jobs -- and I enjoy doing it, so I figure -- I could make programs better from the onset -- so it's perfectly suited to me. I'm also looking at like $15,000 tuition fees... so -- it's not one of these monster degrees, 15k isn't hard to pay off... even at minimum wage.

I have escape plans -- backup places to live cost free, etc. I'll take help from family if they offer it, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth.... So my goals are practical and realistic.

However, I don't disagree with anything you said -- I just think it's misdirected, because I fully account for that "university" paradigm trap. It's a rather good post though and I'm sure someone is going to take something out of it.

reply to post by Jana12





Thanks for the diagnoses.

What a crock.

I have yet to see mass diagnoses that were correct.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Jana12

 

Thanks for the diagnoses.

What a crock.

I have yet to see mass diagnoses that were correct.

They are always correct to some. The points in the OP have all been proven true by people here at ATS. No, it's not everybody -- yes, it is some. I think that's undeniable.

reply to post by undo


If you ellaborate a bit more then I may be able to see where you are coming from but what you posted is so wide open it can be interpreted many ways.

reply to post by Laokin


Then maybe you should change the wording to reflect it as such.

Just because people want person responsibility, doesn't then mean by default they lack empathy or sympathy.

reply to post by Jana12


Excellent points.

What you are talking about is the 6% or so of humanity that are genetic sociopaths with empathic disability. These people are physically incapable of feeling empathy. When fMRIs are done on them, the part of the brain that lights up in normal humans in empathic situations remains dark and unactivated. No therapy exists that can change this.

They simply aren't wired to give a rat's patoot about anything but themselves.

Current speculation is that this is an evolutionary adaption to living in large societies: not caring what others think or what effect your behavior has upon them confers an enormous advantage in a society of people who do care and assume everyone else does, too. It doesn't work in small, tribal societies because they are quickly exposed for what they are and cast out or killed.

I think that most of the elite are genetic sociopaths. They have succeeded too well and have overbred their niche, and are now turning on each other, to the detriment of all the rest of us.

For a more complete discussion of this topic, see this thread:

Should screening for genetic sociopathy be mandatory for politicians and police?

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Laokin

 

Then maybe you should change the wording to reflect it as such.

Just because people want person responsibility, doesn't then mean by default they lack empathy or sympathy.

First things first, I'm not the OP, so maybe I shouldn't change anything, since I wasn't the one who made the statements.

Second thing is second, you don't know the definition of "common misconception." It's generalized by default, so if you read it wrong, sorry for you -- however, it was worded correctly.

Notice how I didn't jump to the assumption that he was talking about everyone?

or did you miss the opening line of the OP that specifically stated "SOME PEOPLE" as in, not everyone?

In case you did, lemme paraphrase for you:

I really think some people are confused or ignoring the problem.

I suggest you brush up on your reading comprehension, son.

reply to post by Laokin


Actually, I am not related to you, and would not want to be.
The condescension from an armchair therapist is very funny though.

I was directing my statement towards your Mass diagnoses.I already replied to the OP in regards to theirs.

It, in all reality should be changed from "some" to "i really have no clue".

Hope this helps in MY clarification.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Laokin

 

Actually, I am not related to you, and would not want to be.
The condescension from an armchair therapist is very funny though.

I was directing my statement towards your Mass diagnoses.I already replied to the OP in regards to theirs.

It, in all reality should be changed from "some" to "i really have no clue".

Hope this helps in MY clarification.

I never made any "Mass Diagnoses."

At all. Ever.

So, wtf are you talking about? Somebody said getting loans is a choice, so I told MY PERSONAL story, in which the only choice I have is to not get an education or to take loans.

I chose the loans with caution, planned strategically for them to be small.

I never offered any type of advice or diagnoses against any thing. I really have zero clue what you're on about, and I'm going to guess -- neither do you?

Paraphrase where I'm being an "armchair therapist" please.

When you can't, I fully expect an apology of some sort -- at least a "my bad."

Furthermore, some is apt. There are people in this very thread that feel exactly like the OP outlined. They said people are lazy etc... so, really -- this thread is proof he was correct about his "some people." Because those very "some people" are in this thread, exactly.



Did you miss your meds this morning?

The only thing I said about the subject was

They are always correct to some (mass diagnoses.) The points in the OP have all been proven true by people here at ATS. No, it's not everybody -- yes, it is some. I think that's undeniable.

Which is a self evident fact. These people are in this thread, so obviously the ops assertions apply to some people in the world, and definitely some people on ATS.

If you ignore them, that's on you -- however, I don't make it a habit to ignore facts when they are having a staring contest of words with me. This is just, ignorant -- by definition.