It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Top 5 Misconceptions About People Struggling Economically Today
page: 3share:
Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
Then aren't the colleges and universities committing fraud by selling all degrees as if they were equal?
If a degree in philosophy or art is worthless, then shouldn't it be sold at a much cheaper price or offered for free?
It seems to me that those degree paths are subsidizing the MBAs and athletics.
It seems that the MBA/accounting/other lucrative degrees should cost a lot more than what they do.This is yet another example of a certain class gaming the system to provide subsidies and welfare for themselves while decrying it for others.
I find it funny that the degrees we supposedly need more graduates in (healthcare, engineering, education, etc) are the ones that often end up costing the most. You would think there would be a subsidy for studying for those degrees in order to attract people instead of pushing them into higher cost brackets. The fact that business gets you more of a return than education or healthcare is outrageous, especially when all a business degree gives you are people/manipulation skills.
reply to post by peck420
Are you insane?
I spent eleven years teaching at the college level, many of them also serving in the Academic Senate, and trust me, students have zero say in price setting, unless they massively protest.
They pay what the college or university decrees they will pay, while the counselors shill every degree as equally worthwhile or lose their jobs.
One of the major areas of conflict with the administration was over proper grading: most instructors wanted the freedom to fail incompetent students, while the administration felt that failing too many would hurt the bottom line, as the school was paid for butts in seats, not the quality of education. They frowned heavily upon instructors who demanded "too much" of their students, and constantly pressured them to make the courses pretty much failure-proof to prevent mid-semester dropouts with subsequent loss of income.
Are you insane?
I spent eleven years teaching at the college level, many of them also serving in the Academic Senate, and trust me, students have zero say in price setting, unless they massively protest.
They pay what the college or university decrees they will pay, while the counselors shill every degree as equally worthwhile or lose their jobs.
One of the major areas of conflict with the administration was over proper grading: most instructors wanted the freedom to fail incompetent students, while the administration felt that failing too many would hurt the bottom line, as the school was paid for butts in seats, not the quality of education. They frowned heavily upon instructors who demanded "too much" of their students, and constantly pressured them to make the courses pretty much failure-proof to prevent mid-semester dropouts with subsequent loss of income.
edit on 19-11-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Problem is that most businesses rely on government to subsidize their labor costs.
When a business fails to pay a living wage, one that a person can support him or herself upon, fulfilling all government and business mandated requirements such as transportation, communications, insurance, etc., then they are using the government to subsidize the difference.
Can't afford to pay a living wage?
Then I guess you aren't "entitled" to be in business.
Problem is that most businesses rely on government to subsidize their labor costs.
When a business fails to pay a living wage, one that a person can support him or herself upon, fulfilling all government and business mandated requirements such as transportation, communications, insurance, etc., then they are using the government to subsidize the difference.
Can't afford to pay a living wage?
Then I guess you aren't "entitled" to be in business.
reply to post by christina-66
I just heard some discussion about free trade last night. It was Donald Trump talking about how conservatives still believe in the free trade thing, and yet America got burned by it when our plants closed down and all the work went overseas. This is one area that conservatives need to review. It is not working out the way it was hoped. (or at least the way they said it would, but I'm inclined to think that some people at the top planned it that way so as to make the great equalization between America and other countries).
I can remember the Thatcher years...as her government systematically closed/sold the major industries here...mining, shipbuilding, steel etc. (also major employers.) We were being transformed into a service economy we were informed.
I just heard some discussion about free trade last night. It was Donald Trump talking about how conservatives still believe in the free trade thing, and yet America got burned by it when our plants closed down and all the work went overseas. This is one area that conservatives need to review. It is not working out the way it was hoped. (or at least the way they said it would, but I'm inclined to think that some people at the top planned it that way so as to make the great equalization between America and other countries).
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
It worked out exactly as they hoped: haven't you seen the increase in the number of millionaires and billionaires since it was installed?
It just didn't work out for the shmucks who thought they were part of the group who would benefit.
It worked out exactly as they hoped: haven't you seen the increase in the number of millionaires and billionaires since it was installed?
It just didn't work out for the shmucks who thought they were part of the group who would benefit.
Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Problem is that most businesses rely on government to subsidize their labor costs.
When a business fails to pay a living wage, one that a person can support him or herself upon, fulfilling all government and business mandated requirements such as transportation, communications, insurance, etc., then they are using the government to subsidize the difference.
Can't afford to pay a living wage?
Then I guess you aren't "entitled" to be in business.
I appreciate what you are saying Apache. My Dad was really different, I know that. He had profit sharing, 401k, good group health benefits, turkeys at Thanksgiving and hams at Christmas. Everyone got bonuses for the holidays. Automatic wage rise every so often. I remember one year mom said that we would have got a 10,000 dollar bonus for our family but dad wanted to share it with the employees. So that is what happened. I realize of course, the majority are not that way.
When CEO's take trillions of dollars out of the economy, padding their profit margins and giving several million dollar bonuses to their golf
buddies, the free market system starves.
Conservatives need to realize that the incoming tide lifts all boats.
Storing the ocean in their own personal tanks does very little however.
Taking away the value of our dollar is taking away the meaning behind what we do for our society.
When you remove meaning, you remove motivation.
Conservatives need to realize that the incoming tide lifts all boats.
Storing the ocean in their own personal tanks does very little however.
Taking away the value of our dollar is taking away the meaning behind what we do for our society.
When you remove meaning, you remove motivation.
Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
It worked out exactly as they hoped: haven't you seen the increase in the number of millionaires and billionaires since it was installed?
It just didn't work out for the shmucks who thought they were part of the group who would benefit.
It's not working out for those of us who want to work in the States but can only find jobs at Starbucks. Oh wait, the guy at Pier One told me he was managing a Starbucks but the location folded in downsizing during the middle of recession.
And while we are on the subject of outsourcing, businesses want 1 to 5 years experience even for a call center help desk, and I just talked to a Gateway tech support, and it was obviously routed out of India, and I'm thinking, how does that person have the job I should have? And it wasn't even VoIP, it was chat online for the whole session.
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on
19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Your dad sounds like a responsible businessman and a good citizen. Unfortunately, we can clearly see he is in a tiny minority of the class.
He is not the sort of businessman I decry as the foul sociopaths they are, but rather an example of what should be.
Your dad sounds like a responsible businessman and a good citizen. Unfortunately, we can clearly see he is in a tiny minority of the class.
He is not the sort of businessman I decry as the foul sociopaths they are, but rather an example of what should be.
Originally posted by Epirus
#3 Anyone can start a business and make it big(Look at Bill Gates)
Right...
edit on 19-11-2011 by Epirus because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-11-2011 by Epirus because: (no reason
given)
Im ok with pretty much everything in your post , except the third .
I made my business few years ago , and actually i think it even harder then to find a job .
If you dont have much cash , you gonna get screwed sooner or later .
You need an accountant and a lawyer , and i will say an employe .
It obvious why you need an accountant , but you will need it to fill your taxes and take care of administrative business , it a really a big pain to do that by yourself and the gov are usualy tax you wrong amount in purpose i guess.
Lawyer , i worked with a lot of fishy people and decided to move on , some werent even paying you had to litteraly beg to get payed , you dont have time for those chenanigan , but the fact is the crisis probably made the thing worst in this matter , i finally had to close my company because one associate client owned me 10k i made a bunch of mistake the first was no contract , yes to run your company you accept anything that can remunerate you because you have to pay your taxes no matter what , no contract , no written speficications that mean endless work neverending , to go in court about this associate you need to keep your company open , unfortunately i reached a non return point budget wise .if i had a lawyer thing like will have never happen .
Employee , why ? because if you involved directly on what you doing , you're not gonna see the same way and probably accept thing that you wont have accepted if you werent an actor and more a spectator.
And the most important are contact , social contact with business owner , so you need to be involved in business club , any other club even secret society i guess even if it forbidden by some . in one word cooptation . nowaday the biggest job or contract are made by this way it a fact.
A lot of company are on the market today , 10 year ago in france( i made the company in france) , you had to go true heavy adminstrative procedure to open a company , now you can do it on internet for certain company and for some at least print and gather all the document in a quick manner , there is even a service that you can pay to help you fill the form etc.
Most of the country want people to open their company , because this way they wont have any regular wellfare (except the lowest one) , they wont have any gov retirement fund , and they wont count in most of the statistics.
I forgot something as well the most important with contact , you need to be a shark and have no morale if you want to be sucessfull , there is no room for nice guy.
edit on 19-11-2011 by cyberether because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Your dad sounds like a responsible businessman and a good citizen. Unfortunately, we can clearly see he is in a tiny minority of the class.
He is not the sort of businessman I decry as the foul sociopaths they are, but rather an example of what should be.
Yes, I know. Thanks for acknowledging. He was a different sort of person and I was lucky enough to have him for my Dad. It has been hard learning that the rest of the world does not always operate that way.
reply to post by Epirus
Well. Here is what you are failing to realize. Most of us who are making these "misconceptions" make them because we know someone who is the poster child. Example 1. My ex-sister in law. She does not work, and has not worked for 5 years now. She gets: medicaid (free healthcare for herself) peach care (free health care for her children) food stamps (around 750 a month, because she does not tell the agency that she lives with her boyfriend...who also gets food stamps and does not report that he lives with her, its a duplex, so he is able to give a different address) Disability for my nephew (he has a speech problem..thats fixes itself when you tell him to stop talking like a baby) she has it worked out with her mother where they claim that her 3rd child lives with her, so that the mother can get free preschool at the private school in the area. On top of this, she just opened up the case to get child support from my brother. Somewhere in there she also gets a grant for free schooling. At christmas time she goes to 3 different churches and places her kids names on the lists for the free presents, she also each year qualifies for free heating.
On the other side...you have my brother.....went into the army, went to Iraq, came home to find that his wife had spent her way through all his bonuses, while her boyfriend had moved in. The kids were calling him "daddy" ... they divorce, he goes on a drug binge gets put in jail. Has not held a job since...gets free medical, food stamps and is whining that he will now have to pay child support.
Deeper still? you have my husband's sister. 32 years old...never held a job, each child is being raised by two different sets of grandparents. She goes through men and friends because they catch on that she is only using them for a place to live and to buy her things. She goes to several different doctors (on her free medicaid) so she can get different prescription drugs. She does not pay for a place to live, nor car, nor her children. She gets, free medical as I stated and food stamps as well as TANF which caused her oldest son's child support checks to get taken in order for TANF to get paid back.
All of them buy most things that I cannot eat when paying cash for food. Steak, ..my brother for his last wedding, had a clam bake, complete with lobster off of his food stamps, my ex sister in law exchanges hers for cash.
So....while there are those people out there, who truly need the help and use the little help they get correctly...there are just as many out there simply living off the system.
Well. Here is what you are failing to realize. Most of us who are making these "misconceptions" make them because we know someone who is the poster child. Example 1. My ex-sister in law. She does not work, and has not worked for 5 years now. She gets: medicaid (free healthcare for herself) peach care (free health care for her children) food stamps (around 750 a month, because she does not tell the agency that she lives with her boyfriend...who also gets food stamps and does not report that he lives with her, its a duplex, so he is able to give a different address) Disability for my nephew (he has a speech problem..thats fixes itself when you tell him to stop talking like a baby) she has it worked out with her mother where they claim that her 3rd child lives with her, so that the mother can get free preschool at the private school in the area. On top of this, she just opened up the case to get child support from my brother. Somewhere in there she also gets a grant for free schooling. At christmas time she goes to 3 different churches and places her kids names on the lists for the free presents, she also each year qualifies for free heating.
On the other side...you have my brother.....went into the army, went to Iraq, came home to find that his wife had spent her way through all his bonuses, while her boyfriend had moved in. The kids were calling him "daddy" ... they divorce, he goes on a drug binge gets put in jail. Has not held a job since...gets free medical, food stamps and is whining that he will now have to pay child support.
Deeper still? you have my husband's sister. 32 years old...never held a job, each child is being raised by two different sets of grandparents. She goes through men and friends because they catch on that she is only using them for a place to live and to buy her things. She goes to several different doctors (on her free medicaid) so she can get different prescription drugs. She does not pay for a place to live, nor car, nor her children. She gets, free medical as I stated and food stamps as well as TANF which caused her oldest son's child support checks to get taken in order for TANF to get paid back.
All of them buy most things that I cannot eat when paying cash for food. Steak, ..my brother for his last wedding, had a clam bake, complete with lobster off of his food stamps, my ex sister in law exchanges hers for cash.
So....while there are those people out there, who truly need the help and use the little help they get correctly...there are just as many out there simply living off the system.
reply to post by Equidae
I do have to disagree with you there. My minor was Business Management, and you have to take econ and accounting as basic courses, then there is at least one course in management style learning about Taylor etc, types of corporations and how they operate, branding of product, making up business plans, etc. Project Management could also be considered people skills to some degree, but it's really maintaining a project of production start to finish with timelines etc. It's even offered as a complete area of concentration all by itself.
especially when all a business degree gives you are people/manipulation skills.
I do have to disagree with you there. My minor was Business Management, and you have to take econ and accounting as basic courses, then there is at least one course in management style learning about Taylor etc, types of corporations and how they operate, branding of product, making up business plans, etc. Project Management could also be considered people skills to some degree, but it's really maintaining a project of production start to finish with timelines etc. It's even offered as a complete area of concentration all by itself.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Equidae
especially when all a business degree gives you are people/manipulation skills.
I do have to disagree with you there. My minor was Business Management, and you have to take econ and accounting as basic courses, then there is at least one course in management style learning about Taylor etc, types of corporations and how they operate, branding of product, making up business plans, etc. Project Management could also be considered people skills to some degree, but it's really maintaining a project of production start to finish with timelines etc. It's even offered as a complete area of concentration all by itself.
You're right. I'm a science major, and we tend to get a bit snobby about so called "soft" degrees
Originally posted by Equidae
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Equidae
especially when all a business degree gives you are people/manipulation skills.
I do have to disagree with you there. My minor was Business Management, and you have to take econ and accounting as basic courses, then there is at least one course in management style learning about Taylor etc, types of corporations and how they operate, branding of product, making up business plans, etc. Project Management could also be considered people skills to some degree, but it's really maintaining a project of production start to finish with timelines etc. It's even offered as a complete area of concentration all by itself.
You're right. I'm a science major, and we tend to get a bit snobby about so called "soft" degrees
Yes, I am also a science major, but my minor is Bus Management. There is nothing "soft" about accounting techniques and many people do not pass the CPA exam first time around.
I do think, however, that many Universities build in "soft" courses to all their degrees to make everyone a bit more well rounded(or maybe it's social engineering).
IT people are notorious for not being people-oriented, and a good network manager is now expected to have at least some soft skills. (otherwise, how could they be expected to talk the CFO into building the new VoIP upgrade into the annual budget)
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus
because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
good points OP, id like to add a situation to the list. people that made some mistakes when they were young (me lol) and cant recover and get their
lives back on track because i have to work a ton and cant afford to go back to school and cant save any money to move out. Its very frustrating
because i know i messed up but i have paid back most of what i owe and still cant get back on track because everything is so expensive.
reply to post by Epirus
Great post OP, you really highlighted some of the ignorance that gets spread around by disingenuous people who were born with silver spoons in their mouths. I lol all the time when you hear one of limbaugh's sheep telling college grads to work at mcdonalds. This country is beyond embarrassing.
Great post OP, you really highlighted some of the ignorance that gets spread around by disingenuous people who were born with silver spoons in their mouths. I lol all the time when you hear one of limbaugh's sheep telling college grads to work at mcdonalds. This country is beyond embarrassing.
Our governor, Rick Scott, was interviewed on talk radio recently, and he was talking about his plans for helping students to get school-to-work
training needed for the jobs available in their areas. It was very savvy sounding and practical. He is coming from a business oriented mentality, and
not a socialist ideology of legislating equality for everyone. He was also talking about how to magnetize businesses to the area, instead of running
them out with regulations.
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by peck420
Are you insane?
I spent eleven years teaching at the college level, many of them also serving in the Academic Senate, and trust me, students have zero say in price setting, unless they massively protest.
They pay what the college or university decrees they will pay, while the counselors shill every degree as equally worthwhile or lose their jobs.
One of the major areas of conflict with the administration was over proper grading: most instructors wanted the freedom to fail incompetent students, while the administration felt that failing too many would hurt the bottom line, as the school was paid for butts in seats, not the quality of education. They frowned heavily upon instructors who demanded "too much" of their students, and constantly pressured them to make the courses pretty much failure-proof to prevent mid-semester dropouts with subsequent loss of income.edit on 19-11-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)
You must not have taught economics. Price is determined by the buyer, always has been, always will be.
If the price is 'unfair' or 'unsatisfactory' or 'gouging' don't buy. Simple.
Enough people don't buy, and the seller must stop selling or lower the price.
reply to post by peck420
Business equals an agreement between supplier and buyer. This is what makes the free enterprise system. Enter techniques for price fixing, floors and ceilings, subsidies, etc, then you interfere with the natural flow of market controls. Guns or butter, right? And where's that nexus between supply and demand? What happens when scarcity is introduced into the market (such as in oil or water or grains or whatever). ?
Business equals an agreement between supplier and buyer. This is what makes the free enterprise system. Enter techniques for price fixing, floors and ceilings, subsidies, etc, then you interfere with the natural flow of market controls. Guns or butter, right? And where's that nexus between supply and demand? What happens when scarcity is introduced into the market (such as in oil or water or grains or whatever). ?
edit on 19-11-2011 by
ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)