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Top 5 Misconceptions About People Struggling Economically Today

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posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Infrasilent
 

I worked as a loan officer selling mortgage loans, refinances and home loan modification to people who where lead into adjustable rate or neg am loans which never should have been given to many people because they could not truly afford it, but in 1999 these loans where pushed hard by lenders because they paid great commissions to Loan Officers who did care if people defaulted when the loans interest adjusted and forced these people who didn't understand what their loan fully entailed into Foreclosure bursting the housing bubble and destroying the wealth and lives of people who where paying their loans for a house worth less because someone in their neighborhood defaulted devaluing the homes around it and leaving them underwater.

Mark my words the next bubble is student loans if you think the home mortgage industry was shady then you don't know much about student loans which follow you beyond the grave and bankruptcy cannot eliminate it. This with the fact that higher education which is for the most part basically a party kids just out of high school who are accumulating vast amounts of debt for a bachelor degree that may as well be a high school diploma because their are people with masters degrees working at Starbucks. More defaults will happen and erode the system with larger firms (like Goldman Sachs) taking over smaller one and making a killing betting against the bubble.
If i had a million dollars id make it a billion. but its not what you have its what they will let you have because you got a keep folks hungry.




posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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The OP has some pretty important points to make.

I am a public school teacher, doing one of the most important jobs a person can do, and I do not know another teacher who doesn't have two jobs.

We all have to do more than our salaries allow to make our financial responsibilities.

Is it too much to ask that public servants make a livable wage?

We have not had a cost of living increase in three years, and the economy was better then.

Now, teachers are asked to do more with less, and a first year teacher can expect to be very close to the poverty line, with no retirement possibility for at least 35 years.

Are we lazy too?



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 


Well, I read your whole reply and it sounds like a similar struggle............

I am only 32, after 12 years of employment for a company that is in shambles, I decided it was time to find a new career.............I completed my two year welding program at the local college. My instructor suggested I go take a union test for a trade. I did and got a call in less than three weeks................

I am a tinner traveling all over hell and back for my weekly check, holding on for better times ahead..........

We are doing better than some but not as good as I want it. I will keep kicking butt and take new avenues if it calls for it.................

My hands are sore and cut,,,,,but the power, rent and whatever other bills are pretty much paid.

Lj01 continues the struggle and really needs to start paying back that $6,000 I borrowed from the fed



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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people are expected to be able to live comfortably on minimum wage...which is $7.40/hour here in michigan...it can't be done.....you can't even afford a place to rent, on those slave wages....it doesn't work...never did.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Epirus
 


You make assumptions about people who are not proponents of the Occupy movement. I am simply not demanding the govt pay for my education and give me a cushy job. Tea Partiers are not happy about the economy or why would they have converged in DC...a Million of them in one place. They didn't want to see the nanny state become a Totalitarian dictatorship.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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There is only one way to get into debt...you spend more than you have....period.

Now there is some "good" debt. Student loans CAN be good debt, but aren't always. If you are going into 100s of thousands of dollars of debt to go 5-6 years of college and come out of it with a bachelors in philosophy...that is BAD DEBT. Not all degrees are equal, and not all are worth going into debt over. Leave the philosophy degrees to the bored rich kids who will have their college paid for them by their parents. There is a long list of degress that are not worth the INVESTMENT. Also, if you rack up student loans and drop out of school...you have no one to blame but yourself.

Also, a home mortgage can be "good" debt...as long as you don't over-extend yourself and you don't take a ARM or other non-traditional mortgage so that you can afford the payment in the short term and cross your fingers for the long run.


The OP can complain about "misconceptions" all he wants...but the bottom line is that if you are in debt...it is a result of your OWN ACTIONS. Personal Responsibility...that's all it comes down to.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Prepare to get an earful!

FIRSTLY, you cannot blame other americans for what has happened. We are all in this boat together! The next person who blames baby boomers for the current mess of the country or threatens to remove the voices of other americans on the pretext that the people of america are what is corrupt, is gonna get my undivided attention because I want some explanation for why such a person (or grioup) would be blaming the people who work (or worked) to pay the taxes that provide for the common welfare.

SECONDLY, why in the sam hill would you want to disenfranchise the majority of the country? the baby boomer generation DWARFS the prior and following generation. they really ARE the people. they are what has sustained the social programs of this nation. it wasn't until the gov decided to police the planet and get into everyone else's business, that the price of industry and commerce became higher than benefit, otherwise, there were plenty enough baby boomers working to feed the poor, shelter the homeless, provide various safety nets, like unemployment, social security, WIC, aid for dependent children and etc. you must ask yourself if you're shooting yourself in the foot by blaming the people.

THIRDLY, although there is a personal responsibility note in anything regarding finance, there's also the concept of forgiving debt, which is not that bad of a thing. i dunno why it's treated like it's that bad of a thing.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by THE666OCCULT

Originally posted by Epirus
It's important to realize that not everyone's situation is the same and if someone is paying hundreds of dollars in school loans while you had a free ride thanks to mom and dad you are making a lot more than them even if you have the same salary. No one is asking you to fix this or feel sorry for those paying the loans but by no means should you be comparing your financial situation to theirs in a judgmental way. (I make the same amount and can pay my rent why can't he/she?


I think you make a few assumptions about people who do not have student loans. What about scholarships? What about the G.I. Bill? These people worked hard to have a way to pay for college and sure didn't have a handout from "mom and dad".

I believe this post is more along the lines of a rant.


As a veteran currently attending college I can tell you that the G.I. Bill most definitely does not cover your education fully. This is especially true if you're (like me) attending an out of state school. I received two scholarships, and even then I had to take out government and private loans as well as work full time. Also, the G.I. Bill is limited to 36 months, so that leaves those trying to double major or those who take longer than 4 years to finish school up the proverbial creek. If you want to attend graduate school then more than likely you'll have to funds left over from your G.I. Bill to cover it.

That would also assume you're in peak health (most veterans, including myself, are not) and won't have numerous recurring medical expenses. Most of which are not covered by the VA, and even if it was the hospitals and care provided tend to be horrible. I've talked to lots of fellow veterans in school, and they all say they avoid VA healthcare as much as possible.
edit on 19/11/11 by Equidae because: Adding medical stuff



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
The OP has some pretty important points to make.

I am a public school teacher, doing one of the most important jobs a person can do, and I do not know another teacher who doesn't have two jobs.

We all have to do more than our salaries allow to make our financial responsibilities.

Is it too much to ask that public servants make a livable wage?

We have not had a cost of living increase in three years, and the economy was better then.

Now, teachers are asked to do more with less, and a first year teacher can expect to be very close to the poverty line, with no retirement possibility for at least 35 years.

Are we lazy too?



This is classic. We are chasing the wage/price spiral. Everything always costs more than our wages. After all the stimulus and baillouts, groceries and other product started to jump way up real fast. Also health ins premiums rose after Obamacare got passed. Actually they rose in lieu of the expectancy it would pass. This administration has completely mishandled the recession. It's not all the banks fault.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover
Do you mean a job, as in any job? Or do you mean a specific job that you want and for which you may or may not be qualified? I see that a lot. Too many want to start at the top and aren't willing to accept the hard knocks, hard work and commitment it takes to advance.


Our company has been facing this very problem for the past two years. We have been unable to hire three new outside salespeople who are willing to put the time in to grow a territory and these are not in the middle of nowhere, this is the New York Metro area.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Epirus
 



The system is set up to screw the working man. The profit motive has no set of morals to provide anymore to the workers than absolutely necessary to get the job done.

However the system is also set up to be gamed if you know how.

If you are unemployed and have time on your hands, you might as well spend some time learning how to screw the system; the system sure doesn't care about you!!

Research, grants, low interest loans, non profit corps, all funded by private interests. endowments, govt. programs, etc. Sure it's lots of paper work but get off ATS and move forward. It really works; just set up an nonprofit corp.

Here's an idea....set up a nonprofit helping people find jobs, helping the unemployed, helping women work from home, etc. The possibilities are endless.

Start here....

managementhelp.org...

www.prattlibrary.org...



edit on 19-11-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
There is only one way to get into debt...you spend more than you have....period.



Really, we spent far less than what we made and now suddenly without a job we are digging to the bottom and are very much in debt thanks to student loans. What was once very manageable is now a struggle so it seems that there is more than one way to go into debt, and we are very financially responsible.
edit on 19-11-2011 by SMTRu44 because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-11-2011 by SMTRu44 because: not sure how to quote then respond under quote?!?
edit on 19-11-2011 by SMTRu44 because: learning



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 


Well, I read your whole reply and it sounds like a similar struggle............

I am only 32, after 12 years of employment for a company that is in shambles, I decided it was time to find a new career.............I completed my two year welding program at the local college. My instructor suggested I go take a union test for a trade. I did and got a call in less than three weeks................

I am a tinner traveling all over hell and back for my weekly check, holding on for better times ahead..........

We are doing better than some but not as good as I want it. I will keep kicking butt and take new avenues if it calls for it.................

My hands are sore and cut,,,,,but the power, rent and whatever other bills are pretty much paid.

Lj01 continues the struggle and really needs to start paying back that $6,000 I borrowed from the fed


My hat is off to you for your efforts. My dad owned a steel foundry and started from the bottom with a wheelbarrow working the furnace room. I know the guys in the plant got special training for the welding and dad would say he believed that a man with a trade was much happier and had something to be proud of and that training in such a trade was a good thing. Incidentally, it was never union and after the plant was sold the steelworkers Union came in and tried to unionize it, and the old-timers there voted it down.
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Epirus
 


Epirus-Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. S&F a hundred times if I could for this.

You are right on the mark, with all 5 statements, and your answers to them.

A year ago, I got laid off and went from 15.00 an hour to 9.00 an hour (yes I was lucky enough to find another job right away). But that didnt take away the bills that I had already incurred. We have never lived rich, and always lived within our means. We drive old cars, we dont have a single credit card and never have; yes, we built a new house a few years ago, but its reasonable size, and my house payment is about what most folks pay in rent. We dont have credit cards, or massive loans or second mortgages, and we dont eat out every night( I like to cook), and we seldom go to the movies-maybe once a year. We dont take vacations, instead we work, find free things to do that are fun.

Instead of spending money, we pay our bills, help our parents if they need it (elderly), and our siblings, and our kids. And as each month goes by, it gets harder and harder to make ends meet. I am now looking at taking a job an hour away from home, because it pays more, we sat down last night and calculated the salary comparison, and the fuel costs to figure out if it would actually be helping the family, or not.

It was very close, and it will end up adding to the family income by about 300.00 a month, I probobly will end up taking the job, even though its more hours, and a longer drive (which I dont relish in the coming winter) because of the income.

I would say that about 45% of the households in america are at this same point, struggling regardless of what they do. The other 55% are made up of folks on unemployment, and welfare because they actually need it or are entitled to it(unemployment I mean, we do pay into it from our salaries), whats left after that are mostly freeloaders, who are on welfare or unemployment because they are too lazy to work, Id say they are about 30% of that 55%, if I had to guess, and since I dont have the numbers.

The really bad part of the situation is that most folks out there think that those of us who are struggling are freeloading, lazy, over extended fools, and mostly they are so far from the truth its pathetic-no one is telling them that they could be next.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Then aren't the colleges and universities committing fraud by selling all degrees as if they were equal?

If a degree in philosophy or art is worthless, then shouldn't it be sold at a much cheaper price or offered for free?

It seems to me that those degree paths are subsidizing the MBAs and athletics.

It seems that the MBA/accounting/other lucrative degrees should cost a lot more than what they do.This is yet another example of a certain class gaming the system to provide subsidies and welfare for themselves while decrying it for others.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by IblisLucifer
 


So you were knowingly preying upon people ignorant of the consequences of the legalese you were pushing so that you had a nice income?

I certainly hope you take personal responsibility for luring people into unsustainable debt.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Epirus
 


A very astute opening post.

I'd like to recommend a movie I just watched called "Dark Days" which follows a group of homeless people through the underground of New York city where they live. It may be available on Youtube and definitely available through Netflix streaming.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


You are looking at it backwards.

The college/uni doesn't set the price, the consumer/student does.

As long as there is demand, the seller will sell for the maximum they can without destroying the demand.

Pretty simple really.

Also, why there is no actual 'fix' coming in the future. Both sides are still claiming that it is 'not their fault, but the other guys'...ie: corporations vs joe public, etc ad naseum.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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that are mostly freeloaders
reply to post by Rossa
 


i don't believe this is the case. for example, i have 3 children. one is about to lose his job and the other two, can't find a job because 1) they need vehicles for most jobs and we can't afford to buy them cars and subsidize their car insurance even for a couple months while they get their own insurance. we also can't afford the gas or auto maintenance. 2) if they do find jobs, it's for very little pay. better pay within the same organization is hotly competed for, even if only for a few cents more per hour and none of it capable of paying for the car, auto maintenance, insurance and gasoline. 3) as a result, it actually is cheaper for them to stay home and not find a job, in fact, it's necessary at this juncture because we can't afford to sustain them while they get on their feet. if it were just 100 dollars a month, or even 200 dollars a month, that would be workable, but it would initially cost alot more than that, and would have to be multiplied by 3.

my only suggestion was to find some other way that doesn't require vehicular transportation, to make money, legally of course, but now it's hard to convince them to try. they are feeling defeated and disenfranchised because we lack the means currently, to help them get started in a meaningful way.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 





The system is set up to screw the working man. The profit motive has no set of morals to provide anymore to the workers than absolutely necessary to get the job done.



You seemed to be under the impression that corporations are expressly set up to hurt working men. For a product to sell at a reasonable, profitable market price, all the costs of production have to be taken into account, such as the cost of raw materials, electric required to power machines, etc. If the business fails, the product may not have been priced to sell competitively, or there may be other factors. When the cost of raw materials goes up, so must the cost to produce an item. When the cost of labor goes up, so does the product. Now, suddenly prices at the grocery store goes up.


But you see, the argument for communism comes out of this situation. Communism essentially goes against the methodology of production by suggesting that the proletarian worker own the means of production.
edit on 19-11-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)





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