Police officer pepper-sprays seated, non-violent students at UC Davis

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Riffrafter

Originally posted by poundpuppy
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Many FAIL to realize that the FAILURE to comply with a police order or request to disperse is probably what brought this on.

I do not agree with it per say but I really find it hard to have empathy nor sympathy for those who FAIL to respond to a verbal order to disperse in a non violent way.

For the 100th time - then the students should have been ARRESTED. Not ASSAULTED.

What part of that don't you get?

This is not assault.
Please show me the Law stating that use of pepper spray by LEO and the Department during non compliance is such.

You're right. This was not assault. By definition, this was battery. Assault involves aggitating someone, where as battery by definition is causing someone physical harm.

Please show me the law stating that it is okay for police to forcibly move peaceful protestors.

Nobody needs to show YOU anything, because battery is illegal and everyone knows that.

YOU need to put YOUR money where your mouth is, because you're the one stating that it's okay for police to do any illegal thing they want simply because they're on duty.

You're the kind of idiot that sees a student put a flower into a policeman's gun, see the same policeman shoot the student in the head, and then say "Well, they shouldn't have put that flower in that gun barrel."

edit on 20-11-2011 by thegagefather because: Spellcheck

I would provide you the UC Police Use of Force if I could find it.
Instead of being lazy, why not find what you are asking for? It is to defend your point.

reply to post by MisterBurns


UK laws do not apply here.
Off you go back to Springfield.

Originally posted by TSearchX
reply to post by macman

 

If you were to look back at my previous post - which is why I said "as I stated before" - I can only speak about Wisconsin Defense and Arrest Tactics model which clearly defines "passive resistance" and "active resistance". Maybe you can enlighten me on the approved methods of this particular department, as well as the reasoning why all LEOs shouldn't be held accountable on the same scale.

Thanks.

If someone can find and post the UC Davis Police Department Use of Force Policy I will gladly go over it and let you know.
The fact that the Chancellor called the department and requested a response, the fact that no agency will mobilize a group of officers without at the very least a SGT and/or LT will show that the police officer himself is following the direction of the higher management.
Do not kill the messenger.
I know it is such a hard pill to swallow, but the Democrats in charge for that area are to blame. The approved and placed into law the department policies and guidelines.

Originally posted by THEDUDE86

Originally posted by THEDUDE86
On monday the news will say officer John Pike will be suspended.

so what he did was wrong....and the police are not saying it was because they were blocking the sidewalk but rather the police officers said they were surrounded and needed to get out which video and photographic evidence has proven not true.

The police are making themselves the enemy, it is sad some of you are defending this.

Yup.....2 officers on leave announced Monday morning....


The officers were wrong, they are now being punished.....macman you need to stop making a fool of yourself and wake up

The decision is made by the SGT and/or LT in charge of the unit there.
Admin Leave with pay in not punishment. But, you go ahead and think that,.
And LEO knows this is the norm and accepted as such.

Well he and another have been suspended, so they must have done something wrong.

You do know the difference between right and wrong, don't you? here's a little hint, it's usually got sweet FA to do with what the law says, as they are often in the wrong position to begin with.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Well he and another have been suspended, so they must have done something wrong.

You do know the difference between right and wrong, don't you? here's a little hint, it's usually got sweet FA to do with what the law says, as they are often in the wrong position to begin with.

edit on 21/11/2011 by Acidtastic because: (no reason given)

I am telling you from personal experience.
Admin leave with pay is the norm for investigations.
No matter which way it is deemed.

It does not mean they are guilty or wrong, or right.

You're right, there. It is normal, yes. I hope that they are found guilty of using unreasonable force, as that is what it was. I know you're some pig supporter and do not agree, but that's becasue you want to live in a world where violence against peaceful people is ok. You want the police to be able to batter people for no reason what so ever, you want to crush anyone who dares not bow down to some filthy PIG and its demands. Well, you can have your orwellian dream, because you're living it, it's hear. But hopefully not for too long. Because we want to break it. We know the difference between right and wrong, these pigs haven't got a clue. they just do what they're told, even if it's wrong, becasue they are nothing but moronic mindless idiots. If any of them had 1 ounce of decency in them, they'd have jacked it in ages ago. But it's proof positive that these pigs WANT to beat people, they WANT to get to use chemicals which are banned in war zones, on the people they are paid to protect. I hope they burn in hell.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
You're right, there. It is normal, yes. I hope that they are found guilty of using unreasonable force, as that is what it was. I know you're some pig supporter and do not agree, but that's becasue you want to live in a world where violence against peaceful people is ok. You want the police to be able to batter people for no reason what so ever, you want to crush anyone who dares not bow down to some filthy PIG and its demands. Well, you can have your orwellian dream, because you're living it, it's hear. But hopefully not for too long. Because we want to break it. We know the difference between right and wrong, these pigs haven't got a clue. they just do what they're told, even if it's wrong, becasue they are nothing but moronic mindless idiots. If any of them had 1 ounce of decency in them, they'd have jacked it in ages ago. But it's proof positive that these pigs WANT to beat people, they WANT to get to use chemicals which are banned in war zones, on the people they are paid to protect. I hope they burn in hell.

edit on 21/11/2011 by Acidtastic because: (no reason given)

A pig supporter?
Ok, sure sure.
Please, tell me how you really feel?
Can you do it any more ignorantly?

And no, no where did I state I agreed with the use of it.
I have stated about the rules and laws in place. But, your blind hatred for the cops has limited your scope of vision.
What does war zones have to do with this?

Give the caffeine a break and apply some logical discussion.

Could I do it more ignorantly? if you even knew how much I've toned it down, you'd be shocked. My hatred for anyone who thinks that they have a right to use violence against peaeful people is rather strong, to say the least. You can call it ignorance if you like, I call it knowing when something is wrong and evil. Ok, so have I got you wrong? Are you not excusing this behaviour? So, do you think that they were justified in using chemicals against peaceful people? And don't fap me off with a load of legalise BS. And simple yes or no answer will suffice.

Missed the bit at the end, what do warzones have to do with it? Pepper spray is illegal for use in war zones. But it's ok to use on peaceful people, can you see why that may look a little bit iffy?

double post.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Could I do it more ignorantly? if you even knew how much I've toned it down, you'd be shocked. My hatred for anyone who thinks that they have a right to use violence against peaeful people is rather strong, to say the least. You can call it ignorance if you like, I call it knowing when something is wrong and evil. Ok, so have I got you wrong? Are you not excusing this behaviour? So, do you think that they were justified in using chemicals against peaceful people? And don't fap me off with a load of legalise BS. And simple yes or no answer will suffice.

Missed the bit at the end, what do warzones have to do with it? Pepper spray is illegal for use in war zones. But it's ok to use on peaceful people, can you see why that may look a little bit iffy?

edit on 21/11/2011 by Acidtastic because: (no reason given)

Am I ok with it?
I am mixed.
Given that the LEO were greatly outnumbered, the crowd surrounded them and just how hostile the OWS people have gotten, I would say I am split 60/40.
If I were king of the world, I would have order the officer deploying the OC to spray the ground just in front of the people.
Having been involved with 600+ person riot, amongst other things as well, I know that people think it is just a joke when the order to disperse is given.

They were told directly, if you don't leave, you will be sprayed.

I can no more be mad of the officer then the lion that bites the head of the circus entertainer that sticks his head in its mouth.

If I say "I's going to punch you", and you don't listen, who's fault is it when you get punched, right or wrong is not what I am getting at.
Common sense and action reaction.

If the students wanted to prove a point, then they did. But, don't cry about it afterwards.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

The point was the act, not the fact that the police SGT made the decision to withdraw and possibly regroup.

They still arrested those sitting and the main focus, the people sitting and blocking were dealt with and removed.

You seemed to have forgotten the first rule of holes:

When you find yourself in one - STOP DIGGING.

This was a total, complete, Epic Fail by the cops.

Those kids paid a helluva price though. Although it was hard to watch, it made me proud to watch them show the cops and the college administration that THIS IS HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS. It was brilliant!

Now at least 2 of the cops have been put on administrative leave and I'm sure it won't be long before Officer Pike is shown the door. He'll be very, very lucky if he's not also charged with a crime. Cops have to obey the law too...and police policy does NOT carry the force of law. It's just that - policy, not law. Look it up.

Payback can be a mean and nasty bitch....

BTW - You might trying reading the constitution too. It's a pretty quick read...but an amazing document.

nope, it'd still be your fault for punching me. if you are WILLING to use force against peaceful people, thenyou are scum. It's as plain as that. it's the difference between right and wrong. Again, something you just do not get.

Originally posted by Riffrafter

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

The point was the act, not the fact that the police SGT made the decision to withdraw and possibly regroup.

They still arrested those sitting and the main focus, the people sitting and blocking were dealt with and removed.

You seemed to have forgotten the first rule of holes:

When you find yourself in one - STOP DIGGING.

This was a total, complete, Epic Fail by the cops.

Those kids paid a helluva price though. Although it was hard to watch, it made me proud to watch them show the cops and the college administration that THIS IS HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS. It was brilliant!

Now at least 2 of the cops have been put on administrative leave and I'm sure it won't be long before Officer Pike is shown the door. He'll be very, very lucky if he's not also charged with a crime. Cops have to obey the law too...and police policy does NOT carry the force of law. It's just that - policy, not law. Look it up.

Payback can be a mean and nasty bitch....

BTW - You might trying reading the constitution too. It's a pretty quick read...but an amazing document.

edit on 11/21/2011 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

This is how democracy works?
Now that is a joke, right?

Democracy works by voting, not protesting.

They did obey the law. That is not very hard to understand.
The people that are in charge of that response detail was the Sgt and/or Lt attached to it that decided on the use of OC spray.
The policy is the law for the department.
You clearly have no clue in this realm.
Payback???
Ok, now it is just merely vengeance. You have lost any hopes of the high road by uttering this nonsense and stupidity.

I have read the documents, maybe you forgot to truly read the 1st Amendment.
Right to peaceably assemble, and the fact that the right is to protest and not to affect others of the protest on Public Property.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
nope, it'd still be your fault for punching me. if you are WILLING to use force against peaceful people, thenyou are scum. It's as plain as that. it's the difference between right and wrong. Again, something you just do not get.

Cause and affect.

Not right and wrong. I clearly defined this, and you either willfully marched on with your retort wrapped in your own conversation.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Acidtastic
nope, it'd still be your fault for punching me. if you are WILLING to use force against peaceful people, thenyou are scum. It's as plain as that. it's the difference between right and wrong. Again, something you just do not get.

Cause and affect.

Not right and wrong. I clearly defined this, and you either willfully marched on with your retort wrapped in your own conversation.

Call it what you want. using physical force against peaceful people is wrong. Full stop.

reply to post by macman

Right to peaceably assemble, and the fact that the right is to protest and not to affect others of the protest on Public Property.

1773 just called. The British would like you to come to Boston and talk some sense into those damn colonists throwing all that fine tea into the harbor....

Originally posted by Acidtastic

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Acidtastic
nope, it'd still be your fault for punching me. if you are WILLING to use force against peaceful people, thenyou are scum. It's as plain as that. it's the difference between right and wrong. Again, something you just do not get.

Cause and affect.

Not right and wrong. I clearly defined this, and you either willfully marched on with your retort wrapped in your own conversation.

Call it what you want. using physical force against peaceful people is wrong. Full stop.

You are avoiding my statement.
Please answer it, instead of making up your own conversation.

Originally posted by Riffrafter
reply to post by macman

 

Right to peaceably assemble, and the fact that the right is to protest and not to affect others of the protest on Public Property.

1773 just called. The British would like you to come to Boston and talk some sense into those damn colonists throwing all that fine tea into the harbor....

edit on 11/21/2011 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)

Now you are comparing OWS to the likes of say the Continental Congress, or the signers of the Declaration of Independence????

Now I know you are joking.


Ok, ok. So what is the punchline?

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Acidtastic

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Acidtastic
nope, it'd still be your fault for punching me. if you are WILLING to use force against peaceful people, thenyou are scum. It's as plain as that. it's the difference between right and wrong. Again, something you just do not get.

Cause and affect.

Not right and wrong. I clearly defined this, and you either willfully marched on with your retort wrapped in your own conversation.

Call it what you want. using physical force against peaceful people is wrong. Full stop.

You are avoiding my statement.
Please answer it, instead of making up your own conversation.

The bit of post i was answering to, was the bit where you said something like ....if I say move or I punch you and I stay still, then I deserve it..... Which shows what type of person you are, Just becuase people do not automatically worship pig law does not give them the right to use physical violence against them. What some poxy handbook says, or some dirty filthy sergeant says is irrelevant. Violence is wrong. It has everything to do with right and wrong. It's not me skirting the issue.