Anti-OWS threads reach for everything they can to denouce the movement.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by FreedomXisntXFree
Ok well you're at fault for not actually asserting yourself in school. You're talking to a kid that busted his ass and didn't party his way through college. I deprived myself of sleep to get the grade. I worked hard, got good grades, and did everything I could to absorb what I needed to get a job in my field. I went to college to set myself up for a better future.

The problem is the job market is already full and they only want people with experience. Not a fresh newbie out of college. I'm qualified but have no experience. The only way to get experience is by getting a job.

I can thank the bankers on Wall Street for destroying the economy which in turn disables people in my position from finding a job.

You can thank Carter and Clinton for forcing banks to lend to people who defaulted on their loans, and you can also thank Barney Frank for not being forthright about the Fannie and Freddie debacle. After all, he was the Congressional oversight and he said things were fine.

Wait so, the banks didn't do anything wrong? You mean the government forced them to leverage
themselves 300 to 1, really, do tell???

PWS, Protect Wall Street!

Very telling that you absolve Wall Street in one fell swoop offering your approval in
a very subtle way. Trillions in derivatives, Wall Street who's lobbyist successfully lobbied
three conservative Republican to lift depression era regulations, what about them, I guess
it was just Clinton and Carter a Republican?

ive said it before and ill say it again;
THE POSITIVE SHOULD OVERCOME THE NEGATIVE IN PEOPLE.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Did they fight against tyranny?

Obvious answer .. yes.

I see tyranny.

The whole country reeks of it.

It's been pointed out to you.. the very lack of demand for anti-capitalism in here.

In truth I don't think anyone's thinking any further than "I want my government to be honest again.. for it not to be a joke and an embarrassment."

That's what I want. And I believe that to be the main part of what the occupy movement is about.

I will say one thing though.. the longer this corruption persists.. the less people will care what guise change comes in.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

So your telling me then.. that there are people in Washington DC who actually represent the people they're supposed to represent.. free of outside interests.. and corruption .. not a pawn of a political party.. and making their decisions accordingly?

Who might these people be?

What I am telling you is that our Founding Fathers built our Constitution on the principles of a representative republic, not a direct democracy. OWS is trying to change that, and that means a fundamental transformation of our country and all that it stands for, by adopting socialist democracy.

No, OWS is trying to assure that the rule of this nation is taken away by private forces.
I wonder if you are trying to promote such a thing.? Are you?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Yes, I do blame the Federal Reserve. Very much so. Check my posting history.

No, actually, you just blamed Carter and clinton, and then extended the blame to poor people trying to buy a house. You did not mention the federal reserve. You certainly didn't mention the ultra-rich investors who used the gamed system to constantly "flip" properties, driving prices to soaring heights - thereby necessitating even larger, riskier loans for the only people you can find any blame with.

OWS is not blaming the Fed(mostly anyway).

Not exclusively, no. It's part of a total system.

In my view, it is not that the Fed set interest rates too low, but that they continually control the cycles and manipulate the economy.

...Uh, yeah, actually. That's achieves mostly through manipulating interest rates.

Also, word of advice? "Your view" doesn't count for anything. Stick with facts.

But the Federal Govt is to blame for continued borrowing from the Fed and driving up the deficit with programs we cannot afford.

You mean the rampant militarism that sucks up a third of our budget? Oh, no, no, I guess you mean the half a percent of our budget that SNAP, right? You know, WIC, food stamps, school lunch programs... Keep the guns, but let's make sure those poor people suffer in deeper poverty.

I always go back to G Edward Griffin on the Fed. No need for giving me facts.

Yes, with a source like that, you are clearly impervious to such things as facts. Good luck with those magical cancer cures, though.

reply to post by LeoStarchild


You can't give me proof.
You can give me evidence, but no proof.

Those damages to property weren't committed by the Occupy members. Everything gets attributed to them block blocers, provocateurs, undercover cop provocateurs, other protest groups, and so on.

I have been to these protests personally. So I suggest you don't jump to any conclusions until you go to one yourself.

reply to post by LeoStarchild


Yeah.. that is the exact reason these protesters are in the street. If you believe that yourself then you should be out there too.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


It is not to abolish capitalism. There are a lot of sides to this, but the majority just want to clean up the government. That's it. They are trying to educate each other to the problems. They are refining their message as the knowledge spreads. They aren't anti capitalism.. some may think they are, but that is because they think what we have now is capitalism. In fact what we have is corruption parading as capitalism. We have a sociopath-ic version of capitalism.

We need to fix that. Occupy is working on it. Doing what they can. Sure there are people out there that others don't agree with, but that is how it is with all protests. Just like the racists at the Tea Party. We know they don't represent all the Tea Party, but the news makes everyone think that. You know they did that to the Tea Party, why be taken in by the same manipulation now? Even if they aren't out there for reasons you agree with and you don't agree with them please don't let those base feelings allow you to be manipulated by the media. The media does the same thing to Occupy that they did to the Tea Party, but conservatives (that just experienced it) are ignoring it because they don't like the movement.

It's a bipartisan/non partisan movement. When conservatives say I don't want to go out because it's mostly a liberal movement.. that is exactly why it is mostly liberal!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

OWS wants nanny statism, they want the govt to pay for their college education, they want to abolish capitalism, etc etc.

And you base this statement off of what exactly? I can tell you first handed that I have been down to Occupy Cleveland a few times. I've sat and talked with plenty of people and NONE of those things came up. People just want the government to look out for the best interests of their people rather than their pockets.

reply to post by FreedomXisntXFree


Occupy has ATS massively divided and at each other's throats. I was just discussing this with someone. Evidently membership has declined and to be honest the threads being pushed and discussed are all Occupy over and over. I recently made a thread about spontaneous human combustion, and someone mentioned Occupy in it. Seriously, the thread wasn't even about Occupy. It seems like either ATS was always massively conservative, or the conservatives are the only members bothering to log in anymore. Being as some well known conservative members have now chosen to drop off the map at this point, and avoid the Occupy subject as well, I think the attacks and BS has shoved the supporters out the door for the time being.

I for one would like to get back to discussing other topics and curbing the hate around here. Yea, call me a hippie, whatever.

Heads up

OK.

Its clear to me that some people on this thread would rather engage in their own personal petty bickering rather than discuss the subject at hand.

That stops now.

Either stay on topic or post bans will be applied.

This isn't negotiable.

I think OWS really needs some set leaders to direct the people and state a set of goals. I read some of the comments on here about the things people have allegedly "heard" OWS protesters saying about wanting socialism, free college, ect...

I honestly though do believe it's possible. As someone who has been to the Occupy for my city I can say there were mostly educated people down there who knew why they were there and what needs to be done. At the same time there were a few knuckleheads down there protesting for the sake of protesting.

Maybe if a few people stepped up to lead this thing we wouldn't have people believing that OWS supports terrorizing children, socialism, violence, or Jerry Sandusky.

Ok well I made that last one up....

Yeah my view, right or wrong, is that as ATS more and more reflects the population in general. An "as the world goes, so does ATS" kind of thing, People will post about what they see and are fed now more than about what they think for themselves.

This started becoming most glaringly obvious here with the subject of politics in general, as the MSM/blogosphere coverage and trends shifted and became apparent in the US, with 99% of the attention going to the squeaky left and squeaky right, whose tactics are heavily polarizing, hateful, vilifying, and divisive, and when their real numbers are nowhere near the proportional amount of coverage they receive. And this OWS thing? Well it's simply an extension of that kind of "communication" and politics. The worst offenders might know who they are, or at this point in the game, and even scarier to think about, they might not.

And this is what it's going to be for the foreseeable future, barring some drastic mind shift. For me, personally, this is a sad thing because ATS is one of the places where I come to get away from this kind of thing and learn, and I haven't been coming here as often anymore.

But at least we didn't have the"drug-resistant TB rampant among the filthy OWS occupier scum" and "OWS is run by Nazis" threads here. Or maybe we did and I just missed them.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


An occupy board probably wouldn't hurt. This always happens though.
Divided on Wikileaks.
Divided on Anonymous.
Divided on Occupy.

Originally posted by FreedomXisntXFree
Last time and I'm done.

Occupy started because we are fed up with the system that only benefits for the rich. The people in the streets are actually doing something about it. When the economy REALLY collapses you will all be singing a different tune.

So what sort of system would you suggest? One that didn't benefit the rich but supported the poor? What type of system would you want to replace the current one with?

The majority of Occupy isn't people looking for a hand out. I'm sorry but you have it all wrong. Its about Justice and nothing more. I'm a college kid that can't advance in life because of my student debt. That money was suppose to be for the better but it turned out to be for the worse in an economy like this.

Coming generations will learn equality from poverty, and love from woes. - Albert Einstien

If they aren't looking fora handout, then what are they looking for?

A system that benefits them?

Isn't that a handout?

reply to post by beezzer


Looking for:
A house cleaning for capitalism.
Ending the corrupt version of capitalism we have been bearing witness to for decades. That means regulation (not over regulation, but some. I'm a libertarian so I do draw the lines, but worker living and safety are important), and ending monopolistic actions. Also they want to end Lobbyists (while we are at it let's end earmarks). No more career politicians. And number one most important: ending conflict of interest between big business and the government.

Grab your conservative friends and get down to the protest and help me educate. I have three local protests that have refined their message to that above. They even asked me to speak to the news paper on their behalf, so I got a front page interview and outlined those points above. So a circulation of 40,000 people (biggest news paper in a small city ) see that as the message of the local Occupy. People support it. Non stop honks and donations of food (one woman brings the protesters two boxes of jolly pirates donuts every morning).
Occupy desperately need libertarians, GOP, and other conservative members to help us run off the socialists and Obama campaigning hijackers that are always hanging out on the edges like sharks.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by beezzer

 

Looking for:
A house cleaning for capitalism.
Ending the corrupt version of capitalism we have been bearing witness to for decades. That means regulation (not over regulation, but some. I'm a libertarian so I do draw the lines, but worker living and safety are important), and ending monopolistic actions. Also they want to end Lobbyists (while we are at it let's end earmarks). No more career politicians. And number one most important: ending conflict of interest between big business and the government.

I stated this earlier, and it was poo-poo'd by a suporter, but why not make contributions illegal?
Unions, corporations, special interest groups.

That way, you wouldn't need to grow government. You wouldn't need to regulate.

Just make it illegal.

Simple.

reply to post by beezzer


Well, I don't know if that could work, or someone like Ron Paul that doesn't have the money for campaigning without joining a major party would never be known. A few decades more into the information and internet age and maybe, but right now we can't.

What would work however is limiting the amount of money and number of times a single person can contribute. That would work for me. If you make contributions illegal though, some good candidates that don't have the money wouldn't have a chance.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow



You're the conservative, and I'm the revolutionary!

Why limit it to dollar amounts?

End all PAC's, end all lobbyists, end all "special interes groups".

Equal. For all. Across the board.

Hows that for radical?

Sure there will be a bunch of lawyers out of work, but that's why god invented sniper rifles. ($5.00 dollars for a lawyer-pelt, Armani, Burberry.. . . . )

reply to post by beezzer


I mean I could get behind it if we could find a way that people running that aren't multi million/billionaires can get fair exposure. Like I said the internet should take care of that eventually. When I said the limits, that also included the fact that no companies could give money.

Hell, we could make it a duty of citizens to vote on so many measures a week and have a government funded system installed and available to all Americans and have everyone vote on every thing that congress votes on now. Then we would have a true republic. The internet kind of does away with the need of representatives..
Voting program in a government funded p.c. in every home (or library for homeless) with a voter i.d. not dissimilar to a S.S. number. Quick and easy, every American has to vote on at least one bill a week, like jury duty (if a bill doesn't get voted on or have enough people choose to vote on it then the system automatically selects a bunch of voters that have to read it and vote again). That is the opposite of the dystopian future. Everyone involved to make a real republic. Keep in mind this system is more of a dream. It's for a nation of people that are interested and care, there is always the possibility of people voting without reading.. which is the only problem (outside of hacking I guess). Anyway.. it's a dream.

It would do wonders for educating the public too. How many people do you think have read a real piece of legislation?