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USMC and the War on Terrorism

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posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Nobody understands what our troops have to go through. And apparently, despite having served in Vietnam, neither do you.


Thank you for your continued participation in this thread, monica. As usual, your comments and observations are germane and insightful. We look forward to your continuing contributions.


[edit on 04/9/19 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Intelearthling Went into the Army, although I didn't regret it, I found it boring to what I thought the Marines could have given me. Boring is what made me quit school in the first place.

Tell us a little of your service. Your avatar is the emblem of the Special Forces, isn't it? That sounds interesting.


My time in the Army isn't that much to talk about. I was just a lowly infantryman, 4th Inf Div 2nd Bn Bravo Co, Ft. Hood. Although I didn't regret joining, I hated every minute of it. Reason? I had wanted to go into the Marine Corps and the thought of being an "Army puke" sickened me. I was just a "young'un". I was always hell-bent about seeing "action". But it was peace time. I could have made something out of myself if I'd put my mind to it. Now I look back and could kick myself for not putting more effort into it. The Army wasn't that bad. I did my time got out, and haven't been back to Texas in almost 20 years. I didn't like it out there.

As for the avatar, I display it for the memory of my Uncle Julian. He passed away in 2001 and was in Army Special Forces in the 60's. He did three tours of Vietnam and still came home safe. Wild as a buck, but safe. He never talked about it to much only that he hoped that I never see some of the things he's seen. He gave me his pin a few years before he died, and I'll keep it until I die.

I kind of feel bad about displaying the SF emblem knowing that I never was in the Special Forces, but I have a great deal of respect for these guys at Fort Bragg. I respect them just as I would a Marine or Navy SEAL.

If you think that it's inappropriate, I could remove it.



[edit on 20/9/04 by Intelearthling]



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling


I kind of feel bad about displaying the SF emblem knowing that I never was in the Special Forces, but I have a great deal of respect for these guys at Fort Bragg. I respect them just as I would a Marine or Navy SEAL.

If you think that it's inappropriate, I could remove it.


[edit on 20/9/04 by Intelearthling]


In the context of an internet forum, all personal life experiences are pretty much irrelevant since they are difficult to independently verify, unlike publicly-presented facts that can be objectively confirmed.

You can use whatever you admire as your avatar.



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
You can use whatever you admire as your avatar.


What about you, taibunsuu? Are you a Marine or simply an admirer of the Corps and its emblem? If you served in the Corps, whom were you with. What was your MOS and what years did you serve?

I may have asked the questions before, but please, refresh my memory.

I seem to recall that you served in the Persian Gulf.

I think I might remember now. Weren't you the combat correspondent?


[edit on 04/9/20 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 04:01 AM
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#2 Grunt, Chesty Puller

More than a man's man- a Marines' Marine.

More on this great American


Wikipedia-Puller

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time."
"We're Surrounded...That Simplifies Our Problems"



#1 Grunt -Smedley Butler


Wikipedia

Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. (1933)
War is a racket. (1935)
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National city Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 19021912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. (1940)

"[M]y interest is, my one hobby is, maintaining a democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you, and we will have a real war right at home."

Butler was #1 an American, #2 a Marine:


Butler and the American Coup d' Etat

How different is America from nations where political power comes quite directly "from the barrel of a gun"? A curious footnote to American history suggests that, except for the personal integrity of a remarkable American general, a coup d'tat intended to remove President Franklin D. Roosevelt from office in 1934 might have plunged America into civil war.


Now, to you mooks that think the Corp is somehow lacking or a little shy on brain power let me offer this:

Wharton Business School leadership program/ USMC

On April 4-5, 91 Wharton MBAs headed off to the U.S. Marine Corps Officer Candidate School (OCS) in Quantico, Virginia, for 2 days of leadership training, Marine Corp-style. Organized by the Wharton Leadership Program and the Wharton Veterans Club, and sponsored by Lehman Brothers, the trip drew upon the school's famed Leadership Reaction Course and Combat Course to provide an intense, hands-on learning experience that emphasized fast decision-making, team-based problem solving, effective strategic thinking, and both mental and physical stamina.

. . .
Students interested in taking on the Officer Candidate School next year will now have two opportunities to bid on it through the Leadership Ventures auction process. Due to high student demand, the event will be held twice next year, in both the fall and spring semesters. We highly recommend you bid on this once-in-a-lifetime experience that you won't soon forget. As Christian Hernandez WG03 put it, "The ropeburn may fade, but the memories last forever. "



I was a Squid and busted lots of Marines' heads on SP (got busted more than a few times too). Marines- take down one and the rest will go outside and cool off. Shoot, I didn't even have to win!

Rangers- call the Hard-Hats because every single one of them had to get into it.
Same with Seals.

Regular (straight-leg) Army- never knew. Each time was an experience.

I did a tad EOD stuff with some Recon boys (and some LRRPs) and I will never forget them. Unified is it (the Marine thing) in a word. This only comes from esprite de corp. The U.S. Marines have always had something else common only to few military groups in history- elan.


Marine Leadership
The 70-percent solutionIt's better to decide quickly on an imperfect plan than to spend time considering every angle and roll out a perfect plan when it's too late. Authority on demand--While retaining a strong management pyramid, encourage people even at the lowest levels to make any and all decisions necessary to accomplish the mission when management guidance isn't at hand. Anyone facing entrenched or predatory competitors, short time frames, chaotic markets, and obstacles in every direction, has a simple choice: Learn to move fast, change on the fly, and inspire employeesor die. The Marines are here to help.


While this particular view had not distilled itself into the lexicon at the time I daily dealt with Marines the idea existed.

go with what you got when you need to

Once upon a time I was to take reinforcements to a barricade- the guys on duty were close to being overwhelmed. Short a few men we arrived when needed.

I spent a few days 'messing' after that for not taking the entire assigned compliment. My excuse (Navy has no reasons- only excuses) was 3 minutes could have made the difference and 4 men wouldn't have.

This 70% rule I have used for many years since. It generally wins out over the 100% ready crowd. If I'm there pretty much ready and they are still forming up-

Anyway, the Marines are great. I was never one and never wanted to be- but I love 'em!



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu

Originally posted by Intelearthling


I kind of feel bad about displaying the SF emblem knowing that I never was in the Special Forces, but I have a great deal of respect for these guys at Fort Bragg. I respect them just as I would a Marine or Navy SEAL.

If you think that it's inappropriate, I could remove it.


In the context of an internet forum, all personal life experiences are pretty much irrelevant since they are difficult to independently verify, unlike publicly-presented facts that can be objectively confirmed.

You can use whatever you admire as your avatar.


Well, I didn't earn it. My uncle did, but he was one bad dude though, in his time.



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by taibunsuu
You can use whatever you admire as your avatar.


What about you, taibunsuu? Are you a Marine or simply an admirer of the Corps and its emblem? If you served in the Corps, whom were you with. What was your MOS and what years did you serve?

I may have asked the questions before, but please, refresh my memory.

I seem to recall that you served in the Persian Gulf.

I think I might remember now. Weren't you the combat correspondent?


[edit on 04/9/20 by GradyPhilpott]


1991 - 1999 5 year active 3 IRR
MCRD Parris Island SC 09 - 12 / 1992
MCT Camp Geiger NC 12 / 1992 - 02 / 1993
DINFOS, Ft. Benjamin Harrison, IN 02 - 10 / 1993
MOS qual 4341
1st MAW, FAP 3rd MarDiv 10 / 1993 - 10 / 1995
MCAS Futenma, Okinawa Japan
MCRC, HQMC 10 / 1995 - 10 / 1997
10 300 PFTs
Expert Marksman x 3 quals
Writer / Photographer:
Okinawa Marine
Asahi Shinbun
Japan Times
Leatherneck
Multiple DoD publications and small-town US papers
Editor: Okimar
Press Chief
Media Relations Specialist
PA / Marketing NCO, Marine Corps Recruiting Command
E-5 / RE-1

No I was not in the Gulf War, though I signed up during it.
Yes, I was a combat correspondent.
Yes, I told you before.

No, personal data doesn't make a difference in a completely impersonal environment such as an Internet Forum.
As long as someone's not trying to imitate something they're not, they can use whatever avatar they want.
No, I really don't give a crap if anyone believes my biography because presenting personal experience on a website is pointless without ability for independent verification.
Yes, if any ATS'ers stop by Wilkes-Barre PA shoot me a U2U and if you're uber-curious I have proof of the above.


So how about you man, where'd you serve and under what MOS?



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
[So how about you man, where'd you serve and under what MOS?


MCRD, SD, RTR, 24 Jul 67

MCB, Camp Pendleton, ITR; FABtryman School, 0811, PFC; Hq/3/13; Staging Bn, Infantry Training.

Presidio of Montery, DLIWC, Vietnamese Language Course, LCpl, 0811/9940

RVN, K/4/13; W/1/13; WIA 23 Feb 69

Danang NSA Hospital

Yokohama, Japan, 6th Army General Hospital

Fort Sam Houston, TX, Brooke Army General Hospital

Camp Lejeune, I/3/10, Cpl, Primary MOS changed 0141/0811/9940;

Caribbean Cruise, BLT; USS Terrebonne Parish (LST 1156)

Little Creek, VA; Landing Force Training Command, Altlantic.

Released: 23 Jul 71, Cpl, 0141/0811/9940

PH, CAR, PUC, NUC, GCM, NDM, VSM 3/stars, RVNPUCCG, frame and palm, RVNPUCCA, frame and palm, VCM.



[edit on 04/9/20 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


Unfortunately, I have heard these words before, but when all the cards were on the table, the people who made these claims did not support the troops. They did not want the troops brought home for the good of the troops, but to further their own political agendas. When we actually came home we were treated like criminals by the very people who had shown so much concern for us while we were overseas.

Mr. Grady - forgive me but you are wrong. Contrary to what you assume,
many of us who dislike Bush and Blair have the troops best interest in mind - "furthering a political agenda" isn't the motivator.

I have a long affiliation with the military; two relatives served with the Special Forces in Vietnam and I've worked with infantry soldiers abroad. Was born in Fort Bragg and am proud to say so.

Agree with you to a point about the intentions of many anti-war people
being psuedo-soldier-friendly; sadly, many who attend vigils "for the fallen" now won't be visiting VA hospitals anytime soon. However - either will Bush supporters.

Quite a few men and women in their 20s-30s who are affiliated with anti-Bush organizations have fathers who served in Vietnam, though. I've met them personally. They do not have a celluloid "take" on combat and are genuinely concerned for our soldier's welfare.























[edit on 20-9-2004 by bushblows]



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 08:04 AM
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I went to NYC anti-war rally with Veterans' contingent in Feb, 2003, and another one in DC with Vets just before war started, when it was obvious that inspections would not be allowed to continue.

I can't say I have anything in common with the International Answer group that got the permits and was main organizer for both marches.

I, and the other vets from WW2, Vietnam and the Gulf War 1 that were there, went for our own agenda. That agenda was that this war is unnecessary, and we believed that Iraq had not the means or intent of causing the US harm, or had any connection with the 9/11 attacks.

This position was stated by SecState Colin Powell earlier in the Bush administration and is the view shared by two former Marine CentCom commanders. Being a big news hound and military buff, I did not see any reason to change those assesments, certainly not from fictitious reports of Nigerian uranium shipments, or the ludicrous idea of Iraqi UAVs poisoning American cities.

We didn't want to see American boys and girls getting involved in a foreign war that would turn into an insurgency right quick, as predicted by Bush Sr. and many other statesmen and generals when citing reasons for not invading Iraq proper after Gulf War 1, and as re-repeated by many former generals when faced with the scenarios for Gulf War 2. We also didn't like the fact that General Shinseki, when he cited a minimum of 350,000 US troops needed to secure a post-war Iraq, was blown off. We saw the mistake of politicians who never served calling the military shots and knew where it would lead.

We didn't want to see a completely useless foreign war that destabilizes the Middle East and ultimately serves no purpose, and ends up causing a lot of US troops to get hurt or killed. That's why I went to the protests.



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by curme
What's this have to do with the war on terrorism again?


Asking difficult questions, eh? We don't like smart people here... they are suspicious...
you MUST hate your country and your Freedom and well you are probable a COMSYMP or a TERRORIST!



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
I went to NYC anti-war rally with Veterans' contingent in Feb, 2003, and another one in DC with Vets just before war started, when it was obvious that inspections would not be allowed to continue.

We didn't want to see American boys and girls getting involved in a foreign war that would turn into an insurgency right quick, as predicted by Bush Sr. and many other statesmen and generals when citing reasons for not invading Iraq proper after Gulf War 1, and as re-repeated by many former generals when faced with the scenarios for Gulf War 2. We also didn't like the fact that General Shinseki, when he cited a minimum of 350,000 US troops needed to secure a post-war Iraq, was blown off. We saw the mistake of politicians who never served calling the military shots and knew where it would lead.

We didn't want to see a completely useless foreign war that destabilizes the Middle East and ultimately serves no purpose, and ends up causing a lot of US troops to get hurt or killed. That's why I went to the protests.



Thank you for your help with the marches. I, too, attended the New York City protest and agree wholeheartedly with your reasons for participating.
Several weeks ago a group of Iraq war veterans (Marines) visited Union Square to shed light on the abysmal bind our military is in abroad. They were an intelligent, no-nonsense group.










[edit on 20-9-2004 by bushblows]



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Having said that though I hope we win over there, and by that I mean turn the place into a peaceful country.

I just don't see the current administration doing it and Kerry has no other plans for over there besides a Bush Lite version.

Pretty disheartening. Even more disappointing than seeing the war go EXACTLY as we envisioned it going is the prospect of leaving the place worse than when we went in, and the sacrifices all for nill.

Let's pray that doesn't happen.



posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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taibun,

Isn't it hilarious how so many say "Support the troops," yet they totally deny or avoid the fact that the troops themselves, such as Gen. Shinseki, said the current debacle in Iraq was going to happen unless they had enough soldiers?

Thes epeople don't support the soldiers. They support people like Paul Wolfowitz, who had the nerve to shoot down his JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF in a Senate Committee meeting! Goodness gracious! And Wolfowitz is dead wrong and always will be dead wrong!



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