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USMC and the War on Terrorism

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posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by cargo
Collage of some slow motion clips shot with an expensive film lens and an orchestral score over the top. A few dissolves and fades over choreographed live action.

I was waiting for Bruce Willis to appear.


With all due respect to Mr. Willis, who needs him when the Corps has the Marines to feature in their advertisements. There's nothing like the real thing.


[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 01:03 PM
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Speaking of Marine Corps Aviation, is the MV-22B Osprey for real or is it a lost cause?

I prefer the CH-46, just since it can carry twice as many Marines as an Osprey.

An interesting thing. The Marines are using aircraft that in the 1960s was considered advanced, like the UH-1N, the AH-1W, and the CH-46. Shows that they make the best of what they have.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
is the MV-22B Osprey for real or is it a lost cause?


I wish I had a good answer to this one and browsing the literature (see below), I'm not sure that I have a better answer. I've been reading about the promise of the V-22 for over twenty years. Even in the beginning, I could only think of how ungainly the thing looks.

Experience has shown me that the naysayers are often wrong when it comes to military hardware. Research and development is often long and fraught with failed tests from which pin-headed journalists make premature predictions of ultimate failure.

This technology goes back to the mid-forties in concept and the first successful flights were made in the seventies. When you look at the specs, it just seems to be the Marine Corps' dream come true.

So, I don't want to be like the nervous-nellie journalists and call for the abandonment of the technology, but the V-22 is rapidly becoming the military project with the longest and the most expensive development in the history of the world.


Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I prefer the CH-46, just since it can carry twice as many Marines as an Osprey.


You'd be hard pressed to find someone who loves the "Imperial Battle Frog" more than I do, but its days are numbered, although it is said that the last "frog" pilot has yet to be born. I'm not sure about this, but I think the Osprey must carry more troops than the 46. These references seem to confirm this.


The aircraft is manned by a pilot, copilot, and enlisted aircrew appropriate for the specific service and type of mission being flown. The V-22 is optimized to transport troops (i.e., 24 combat-equipped Marines, or 10,000 pounds of external cargo) to austere landing sites from aviation capable amphibious ships and expeditionary forward operating bases ashore. The V-22 will be capable of flying over 2,100 nautical miles with one aerial refueling, giving the Services the advantage of a Vertical/Short Takeoff and Landing aircraft that can rapidly self-deploy to any location in the world. www.globalsecurity.org...

CH-46 Payload: Combat: maximum of 14 troops with aerial gunners
Medical evacuation: 15 litters and 2 attendants Cargo: maximum of 4,000 pound (2270 kilograms) external load www.globalsecurity.org...



Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
An interesting thing. The Marines are using aircraft that in the 1960s was considered advanced, like the UH-1N, the AH-1W, and the CH-46. Shows that they make the best of what they have.


If it were not for this characteristic the Marine Corps would have been disbanded long ago. The Marine Corps is truly "the little service that could."

Links:

www.boeing.com...

www.boeing.com...

198.65.138.161...

198.65.138.161...

pma275.navair.navy.mil...

pma275.navair.navy.mil...

www.helis.com...

www.helis.com...

www.g2mil.com...

wais.stanford.edu...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.geocities.com...

people.howstuffworks.com...

www.theaviationzone.com...

www.cato.org...

www.cato.org...

www.faa.gov...

www.ainonline.com...

boatcoach.tripod.com...

www.insidedefense.com...

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.google.com...

www.google.com...


[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 04:18 PM
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www.sacbee.com...

Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey blames the President for his committing atrocities in Iraq. I believe he has no one to blame but himself. No one is under any obligation to commit crimes and no one has any obligation to obey unlawful orders. I believe this Marine has dishonored himself and dishonored his Corps. If these things happened or if he was ordered to do these things, he should have gone straight up the chain of command all the way to the President. It is his right; it is his obligation.




Atrocities in Iraq: 'I killed innocent people for our government'

For nearly 12 years, Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey was a hard-core, some say gung-ho, Marine. For three years he trained fellow Marines in one of the most grueling indoctrination rituals in military life - Marine boot camp.

The Iraq war changed Massey. The brutality, the sheer carnage of the U.S. invasion, touched his conscience and transformed him forever. He was honorably discharged with full severance last Dec. 31 and is now back in his hometown, Waynsville, N.C.

When I talked with Massey last week, he expressed his remorse at the civilian loss of life in incidents in which he himself was involved.





[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by gradyphilpott
In the Marine Corps Recruit Training (Boot Camp), the emphasis is less on training than on education and transformation.…..

Nicely put Grady, the only thing I would add to this is the high value place on leadership and personal responsibility. This was a point that my brother made as he was a marine around the same time as you, then a few years later did a hitch in the army….his comments where that leadership & individual responsibility was not stressed nearly as much. And also that command responsibility was reserved for higher ranks.


Originally posted by gradyphilpott
Experience has shown me that the naysayers are often wrong when it comes to military hardware. Research and development is often long and fraught with failed tests from which pin-headed journalists make premature predictions of ultimate failure.

Remember what a hunk of junk the Bradley was supposed to be and it has seemed to be a fairly effective vehicle.

Although, I have my doubts about the Osprey being a pleasant surprise….unfortunately. You’ll have to report back sweat.


[edit on 5-9-2004 by keholmes]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 04:42 PM
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Marines in Iraq are testing new kevlar shorts. It's been a long time coming, I guess, but the lower half of the body has long been neglected. One does have to wonder about the mobility issue.

www.usmc.mil...



The one-size-fits-all shorts are worn over a Marine's uniform and are held up with built in suspenders. Each pair of shorts weighs close to 5 pounds.

The shorts have already acquired a few nicknames from the battalion. One Marine referred to them as "lederhosen," and others call them "fishing shorts."


[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

[edit on 04/9/7 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by keholmes

Originally posted by gradyphilpott
In the Marine Corps Recruit Training (Boot Camp), the emphasis is less on training than on education and transformation.…..

...the only thing I would add to this is the high value place on leadership and personal responsibility.


I agree.


Originally posted by keholmes
Although, I have my doubts about the Osprey being a pleasant surprise….unfortunately.


I have plenty of doubts, too. I guess we just have to trust the Corps and its leadership which has always been keen on innovation.


[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey blames the President for his committing atrocities in Iraq. I believe he has no one to blame but himself. No one is under any obligation to commit crimes and no one has any obligation to obey unlawful orders. I believe this Marine has dishonored himself and dishonored his Corps. If these things happened or if he was ordered to do these things, he should have gone straight up the chain of command all the way to the President. It is his right; it is his obligation.


Yet if he didn't do that something he considered atrocious, you would turn around and say his job is to follow orders. See the irony here?

If you do something bad and you blame someone else for it, like SSgt Massey, they say you should've taken matters into your own hands. But if you don't do that bad thing, then they nail you for insubordination.

I for one am glad he followed orders. Otherwise he would've been crucified by the U.S. government and certain members of the American public for not following orders.

Does anybody understand the plight of our servicemen and women? I say we should take the time to understand what they have to go through instead of making snap-judgments based on opinion.


[edit on 5-9-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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I think the Marine Corps has proven time and again technological advances are highly overrated and they rarely guarantee success.

The Marines are pretty much content with and have succeeded time and again with primitive systems. For example, Army infantrymen complain about M-16s being faulty. Well if they knew how to clean them properly and shoot well as a Marine did, they wouldn't be complaining, would they?

Case in point: the Army is planning to get replace the M-16A2, while the Marine Corps is about to upgrade to the M-16A4!

And the Army is still struggling with Force XXI. They canceled the RAH-66 Comanche. The Marines have developed very little and have canceled nothing. Yet.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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These statements and the attendant links help to explain the ethos of the Corps:

"The Navy-Marine Corps forces have to be flexible to handle the diverse missions of humanitarian assistance to high intensity conflict," Krulak continued. "The Marine Corps has institutionalized change by standing up the war fighting laboratory. The war fighting lab investigates new technology and evaluates how that technology impacts training, organizing, and educating Marines to fight," he explained. "This is truly innovative because some of the experiments will fail," Krulak said. "Marines will take risks to explore the limits of technology and develop new applications that the designers had never thought of. We will equip the man, not man the equipment."
www.librarylaw.com...
GENERAL CHARLES C. KRULAK


The intent is to convey a clearer understanding of what we mean when we say "every Marine a rifleman" and "we equip Marines, not man equipment." Each comes from the same source: a common view of maneuver warfare which puts at center stage the most lethal and effective weapon system on earth, the individual Marine. This is the context from which we view command and control. This is also the context from which we view information.
www.house.gov...
Lieutenant General John E. Rhodes



[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 07:54 PM
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Equip the man, not man the equipment. That is profound.

The Army seems to be doing that. It seems to be bulking up troops but are not making the soldiers any better at what they do. They only seem to pile the workload on.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Yet if he didn't do that something he considered atrocious, you would turn around and say his job is to follow orders. See the irony here?

No irony, he claims not to have followed orders and he’s out now…although having actually read the article, the stories sound fairly suspicious to me.


From all the intelligence reports we were getting, the cars were loaded down with suicide bombs or material. That's the rhetoric we received from intelligence. They came upon our checkpoint. We fired some warning shots. They didn't slow down. So we lit them up.

"Just throw up your hands, lay down weapons." That's what they were doing, but we were still lighting them up. They weren't in uniform. We never found any weapons.

Correct me if I’m wrong but were not a number of checkpoints blown up. Now if he did actually shoot someone with their hands up….why is he not being convicted. The army prosecuted a well liked Cornel for simply putting a gun to a prisoners head. See the irony here?


Q: Who gave the order to wipe the demonstrators out?
A: Higher command. ………..I believe, came from senior government officials, including intelligence communities within the military and the U.S. government.

well did it or didn’t it?



Q: And the incident?
A: …………….. We shot an individual with his hands up. He got out of the car. He was badly shot. We lit him up. I don't know who started shooting first. One of the Marines came running over to where we were and said: "You all just shot a guy with his hands up." Man, I forgot about this.

Funny thing is that in one of the articles he claimed to have a French journalist who helped him remember this particular incident.

And if you read the article and still think he should have followed fictional orders to shoot surrendering prisoners…my suggestion to you is not to enter the military, you might end up with a very long prison sentence, although it might lead to a “distinguished” political career (probably only if you just make them up though)
if this is actually true, then this guy will probably see time in a military prison you don’t shoot prisoners….and anyone who says that there are orders to the contrary are just plain Kerry….whoops, slip up I meant wrong.


[edit on 5-9-2004 by keholmes]



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 08:51 PM
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Insurgency is very tough situation, most tough possible situation for soldiers and Marines to win. Trigger fingers go too fast sometimes and innocent people die. Sometimes they go too slow and soldiers die. If you charge and trial every soldier or Marine who kills an innocent person by accident over there you'd run out of troops pretty quick.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Does anybody understand the plight of our servicemen and women?


Are you blind, monica, or do you just think that everyone here is a lying wannabe?

[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 03:07 PM
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Attacks disillusion Marines

By Mike Dorning
Chicago Tribune

RAMADI, Iraq — Marine Cpl. Travis Friedrichsen, a sandy-haired 21-year-old from Denison, Iowa, used to take Tootsie Rolls and lollipops out of care packages from home and give them to Iraqi children. Not anymore.

"My whole opinion of the people here has changed. There aren't any good people," said Friedrichsen, who says his first instinct now is to scan even youngsters' hands for weapons.

The subtle hostility extends to Iraqi adults, evidence some U.S. troops have second thoughts about their role here.

"We're out here giving our lives for these people," said Sgt. Jesse Jordan, 25, of Grove Hill, Ala. "You'd think they'd show some gratitude. Instead, they don't seem to care."

seattletimes.nwsource.com...



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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War without the Spin
By Oliver North



Earlier this month, our nation mourned the 1,000th U.S. death in Iraq. The Kerry campaign and the so-called mainstream media pounced on the report with partisan furor, using the "milestone" as "proof" the war in Mesopotamia is going wrong — and that the fault lies with George W. Bush. On the campaign trail, Sen. John Kerry complains President Bush has failed to "take the target off American troops." His campaign operatives talk anonymously on background about "equipment deficiencies," a "lack of body armor" and "deeply diminished morale" among our troops.

Meanwhile, the New York Times, gloomily reports that, "In the past five months, the Americans have relinquished control over much of Anbar and Salahaddin, provinces that include cities like Ramadi and Falluja, where the guerrilla insurgency churns on with unabated intensity." What's going on here? Are we really losing the war in Iraq's bloody, scorched streets? Those are just some of the issues I went to investigate with a FOX News "War Stories" team.

On this, my fourth trip to Iraq in the last 18 months, we were embedded with the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, assigned to the 1st Brigade of the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division. These units are part of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force posted in Al Ramadi, the capital of Al Anbar Province, the largest in Iraq and in the heart of the so-called "Sunni Triangle."

Here's what we found wrong with the Kerry-media spin:


washingtontimes.com...




[edit on 04/9/19 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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Woman won't let vandals ruin tribute to son
Brenda Sewell wants to maintain a 'ribbon prayer tree' until her son returns from duty in Iraq.

By JENNIFER GISH
Daily Record/Sunday News
Saturday, September 18, 2004

Brenda Sewell bought new strands of lights for the pine tree in her East Hopewell Township front yard the same day she realized vandals had destroyed them.
The "ribbon prayer tree" might be just a small tribute to her son, Scott Sewell, a Marine reservist stationed in Iraq. But she made a promise to the 21-year-old soldier that the tree — adorned by friends and family with yellow and patriotic ribbons — would shine brightly until he came home.

State police are investigating what happened to Brenda and Chuck Sewell's nearly 8-foot-tall tree. Between 1 and 5:30 a.m. Wednesday someone broke some of the small U.S. flags around the display and cut the light cords.

"Who would do something like this?" Brenda Sewell said. "They're not going to get away with this one. I'm putting it back up. It's just something to do for him."

Lance Cpl. Sewell, a 2002 graduate of Kennard-Dale High School, enlisted in the Marine reserves with several friends shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"As soon as 9/11 hit he said, 'We can't let this keep going on,'" his mother said. "He didn't tell me until after he volunteered and got his papers."

He delayed boot camp until 2003, and managed to get a year of political science studies in at Millersville University before his Philadelphia-based 14th Marines Radar Unit was activated. He arrived in Iraq earlier this month, and whenever he can he sends e-mail to his family members, who don't know where he's stationed or what he's doing.

Mostly, his mother said, he just asks if everyone at home is doing well. He's scheduled for active duty for about a year, she said.

The tree, on which neighbors and friends can hang a ribbon in Scott's honor and say a prayer if they want to, was started at his send-off party this summer.

As she sat on her porch this week, she noticed the tree wasn't lit. When she investigated, she saw the plug had been severed from the light strand, the cords were pulled on until wires were exposed, three of the five flags were broken, and some of the ribbons were missing.

She fixed it right away.

"It's going to stay lit until he's home, until he's safe," she said. "I figure that by the time he comes home it will be full."


Reach Jennifer Gish at 771-2090 or jgish@ydr.com.



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by curme
I was going to join the Marines, but my ASVAB was to high.


I quit school and got my GED just to join the Marines at the age of 17. I scored high on the ASVAB, but the recruiter told me that I needed to complete school and recieve a regular diploma before signing. I quit school and now I've got to go back? I regret that I didn't. Went into the Army, although I didn't regret it, I found it boring to what I thought the Marines could have given me. Boring is what made me quit school in the first place.



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling Went into the Army, although I didn't regret it, I found it boring to what I thought the Marines could have given me. Boring is what made me quit school in the first place.



Tell us a little of your service. Your avatar is the emblem of the Special Forces, isn't it? That sounds interesting.



posted on Sep, 19 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Are you blind, monica, or do you just think that everyone here is a lying wannabe?

[edit on 04/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]


Nobody understands what our troops have to go through. And apparently, despite having served in Vietnam, neither do you.




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