The start of the end of the Elite

Here is an easy way to do it, and allow the program to pretty much pay for itself.

Once you start putting these systems in, you enter into an agreement with the home owner. The system is installed for free. For a period of five years, all surplus power is paid to the organization. After five years, the payout goes to the home owner. If you have 1000 systems generating a surplus of say 500w per month, that's $50,000.00 per month. That's at least two systems per month paid for. Add in any donations, and the number goes up. As you add more systems, the number continues to climb, and soon you are putting in 10, 50, 100 systems per month.

Originally posted by haarvik
solar power

Thoughts?

Haarvik,

I was with you, decades ago, but then I learned something.

Refrigerator-Freezer
16 cu. ft. | 380 Watts
20 cu. ft. | 420 Watts

Refrigerator-Freezer (frostless)
16 cu. ft. | 600 Watts
20 cu. ft. | 800 Watts

It's not that solar power isn't awesome,
and the original design of panels last as long as glass,
but that our appliances are grossly inefficient,
and haven't gotten any better since the 50's.

One would think in 60+ years that the appliances
would at least be a tiny bit more efficient, but they aren't.

The day companies start selling 38 Watt refrigerators
is the day solar will eclipse oil.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Yes that is an obstacle to deal with. Clothes dryers and stoves use more than the refrigerators. As I am still in the R&D phase of this, at this point it kind of seems like if you can be about 75% self sufficient then you could do ok and still be grid tied for the high energy items, and still be cost effective. I do agree though that AC/heat pumps, freezers, refrigerators, stoves, dryers and even possibly water heaters would be a pretty good drain on the system.

there is a company in las vegas that kind of does this. I do not remember the name I saw the ad on craigslist one day..

They basically will install a full grid tie in system to your home for free... you pay them per month for either 3-5 years I cant remember which and you pay them half of the average of your normal electric bill so if it costs you $100 a month you pay them $50 a month...

After the 3-5 years are over you never pay them again...

Now here is why they do it...

Your home being grid tied in and generating more electricity then use, they retain the rights of that electricity and sell it to the power company like you could do if you put the system in yourself... So they make enough moeny from you to cover their costs of doing this then they have a lifetime of free profit from the electric company thanks to you..

Now I don't have a problem with this its a smart idea for a company to do and you are helped in the process its a win win situation....

The problem with doing that large scale is that if everyone started doing this the electric company couldn't afford to buy the electricity or there would be so much extra that its almost worthless and not a point to do it because you won't make any money from it.

What should be done but for some reason is not which is the stupidest thing ever and shows you how messed up our world is... EVERY new structure build should be 100% green and self sustained and should be required emit a certain amount of good gases (office building should have to have some trees and things in them and around the building ect)

There is absolutely 100% NO VALID REASON why this should not be done.

Solar and wind combinations, they are very cheap now days, everyone should be using LED light bulbs there is no reason to use the old style of lights that are inefficiency and wasteful when LED is cheaper, brighter, safer, longer lasting and uses less electricity.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by haarvik
solar power

Thoughts?

Haarvik,

I was with you, decades ago, but then I learned something.

Refrigerator-Freezer
16 cu. ft. | 380 Watts
20 cu. ft. | 420 Watts

Refrigerator-Freezer (frostless)
16 cu. ft. | 600 Watts
20 cu. ft. | 800 Watts

It's not that solar power isn't awesome,
and the original design of panels last as long as glass,
but that our appliances are grossly inefficient,
and haven't gotten any better since the 50's.

One would think in 60+ years that the appliances
would at least be a tiny bit more efficient, but they aren't.

The day companies start selling 38 Watt refrigerators
is the day solar will eclipse oil.

David Grouchy

edit on 18-11-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)

Its like that for a reason... the people who sell the electricity own the companies that make the product so if the yuse more electric that means the companies both make more money

also there are plenty of homes and business that are 100% off grid and have all the normal things a regular grid home have and works all the same if not better.

you do this buy having efficient products because they actual do have them... like a tankless hot water heater so you only use electric to heat the water when you need hot water, some people use a preheating system where the sun heats the water like they do in most heated pools in FL... this helps usually to use in the summer in places where it snows and in the winter you kick on the tankless heater.

There are also efficient brands of just about everything, switch all lights to LED, start actually conserving power and paying attention to leaving lights and things on...

For new houses I have seen allot of different green design shows that are pretty cool where the houses are built in specific ways to take advantage of natural breezes and the sun coming up and things like that... Like the bedrooms were on one side that gets less sun to keep them cooler and on the side with sun were allot of windows and this big chimney thing of rocks that held the sun heat so it helped regulate the house temps...

There is allot that we can do especially in new building to make a huge difference.

I think that the non profit would be good if you could do the grid tie in and have the home owner pay 50% of their average bill and they would just always pay that and it would be a constant number and never change. :You would keep the money generated from the grid tie in.

Then like you said above put that money into a fund and use that to put the system on other houses. Eventually I guess if the profit dipped from so many houses being grid tied in so there is excess electric and the electric companies paid less or wont buy the extra electric...

By that time you should have enough people in your system that the monthly money you get form them you could keep installing systems... Also you have to think about the money you can make also for repairs and things you make it so that you are the only person that can repair the system or upgrade it that way you make a small profit from that and you make a fair profit so that its better for them to have you do it.

Once you got going good with it you should be able to start buying things in bulk and getting a pretty good discount on them... The biggest point here is to actually do it to help people and not to profit other then making enough profit to sustain the business model and continue to install the system to more homes....

Another side to this is actually charging business's to do it and using that profit towards the free installs for homes.

I think this would be actually a very good idea and I have thought of it before and have the skills to do this, the only problem is the capital investment to get it started...

i think the best place to start this would be in rural areas.

If you want to stop the elite, everyone needs to stand up and say we aren't paying any taxes until things change. It would take a lot of people though, that way they couldn't just start arresting people. If the numbers are big enough they have to listen.

Solar and self sufficiency would at least help though.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors


Sorry I am just catching up on the posts now.

To answere. Yes I live in the U.S. in florida to be exact. The mandates vary from state to state but here it is mandated that the power you put back into the grid from your home has to be paid for by the power company at the same rate they charge you minus the fees they charge for upkeep. Once your system is set up you tied into the grid and my home has a new digital meter that counts backwards when I have excess power runinig into it.

The solar cells I bought were from a local installer that went over the whole setup with me I am now confident I could add more myself but I was a noob at first. It was one of the best investments I have ever made. The wind turbine runs a PMA I bought online and sits on my roof (that one I tied in myself). I also recieved tax credits for my set up to offset the cost that helped alot.

There are better solar cells on the market now that are twice as effecient if not more and the weight and size has come down as well.
I would say to those looking to do the same first find out what your state ordinance is on selling poer back to the grid and deffinitly get proffessional help to install your system.
I am currently looking into a way to take some of the excess power and compress air into a storage tank so a night it could be used latter as a backup. right now I don't have enough information on this but I know it is possible.

It should be noted I have a ranch with several acres of land so I am way ouside of city ordinances.