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ATS: We Have Failed!
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
nicely said.
tho i would have rather heard what u actually did rather than your opinion of what we did not do.
u do realize that imposing your ideas of what we should or should not do (and ur disappointment in same) onto us with words is no different than imposing ur ideas onto us with arms.
it is the imposition that matters.
if u feel strongly: act.
but ur whip of guilt only serves to close my ears.
nicely said.
tho i would have rather heard what u actually did rather than your opinion of what we did not do.
u do realize that imposing your ideas of what we should or should not do (and ur disappointment in same) onto us with words is no different than imposing ur ideas onto us with arms.
it is the imposition that matters.
if u feel strongly: act.
but ur whip of guilt only serves to close my ears.
Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by haarvik
[color=dodgerblue]I can agree with that statement.
I frequently speak with my dear old Dad about current events and he said the same thing. Occupy is barking up the wrong tree. They need to Occupy the whitehouse if they truly want to make a difference.
And I think he was totally right.
But that doesn't matter at least people are barking!
Getting people to wake up and pay attention.
Originally posted by FoosM
Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by haarvik
[color=dodgerblue]I can agree with that statement.
I frequently speak with my dear old Dad about current events and he said the same thing. Occupy is barking up the wrong tree. They need to Occupy the whitehouse if they truly want to make a difference.
And I think he was totally right.
But that doesn't matter at least people are barking!
Getting people to wake up and pay attention.
[color=dodgerblue]Yes. Exactly! That's what I was trying to convey in the first post I made on this thread.
It has to start somewhere.
edit on 18-11-2011 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)
Here's what it will take for all of you to actually start feeling something outside yourselves strongly enough for you stop talking incessantly about
it,wake up,stand up and start moving to begin helping others DO something about it- You will have to loose something so important to you that directly
and fundamentally changes your lives that you refuse to live without...it has to hurt,or you will keep looking the other way. Until then,there really
is no hope that any movement of the People will be massive enough to freak TPTB out enough to force policy changes or any other changes,anywhere.
26,000 People marched last night. A young man named Tim Pool has worn himself out staying with OWS since it launched,filming,gathering material for
his documentary to be released in the future. He's 25. He's extremely intelligent and has already done good works in his young life. He's just ONE
example of the "kind" of People in this "thing". Hippies? Really? How utterly uninformed can you get?
There are actual people..living breathing scheming calculating people running this freak show that has nearly brought this country and the rest of the world to it's knees..just..people. They are responsible,directly,for the deaths of millions,the suffering and deprivation of billions and for orchestrating this stupid plan for world domination. I say stupid because 'I' know they will not succeed. MY big question is,how is it that the "Elite" get away with this crap when everyone knows who,and what,and why? I mean come on now..they-are-only-PEOPLE!
None of us could get away with a fraction of what these asshats have gotten away with..we'd be tried convicted and executed. I say so should they!
We need to stop spitting at buildings and pizzing up each others legs here and call a spade a spade. It isn't The Fed,The Banks,The Government..it's a very select few,that have brought the world to the place it is now and who will take us all,the entire planet's population, to a place we will never recover from if we ALL don't force this madness to stop! We can track an old man down and pull him out of a grubby hole in the desert and watch him be executed for so-called threats to others..but when it comes to doing something real to save ourselves from a real threat to our existence,we sit around and talk about it and talk smack when other People try to resist,to protest. The only thing that can save us is removing the threat to us. You all know their names. You know their crimes. It's about time we demand a trial and a punishment. Then we can begin setting things right.
Have a nice day.
There are actual people..living breathing scheming calculating people running this freak show that has nearly brought this country and the rest of the world to it's knees..just..people. They are responsible,directly,for the deaths of millions,the suffering and deprivation of billions and for orchestrating this stupid plan for world domination. I say stupid because 'I' know they will not succeed. MY big question is,how is it that the "Elite" get away with this crap when everyone knows who,and what,and why? I mean come on now..they-are-only-PEOPLE!
None of us could get away with a fraction of what these asshats have gotten away with..we'd be tried convicted and executed. I say so should they!
We need to stop spitting at buildings and pizzing up each others legs here and call a spade a spade. It isn't The Fed,The Banks,The Government..it's a very select few,that have brought the world to the place it is now and who will take us all,the entire planet's population, to a place we will never recover from if we ALL don't force this madness to stop! We can track an old man down and pull him out of a grubby hole in the desert and watch him be executed for so-called threats to others..but when it comes to doing something real to save ourselves from a real threat to our existence,we sit around and talk about it and talk smack when other People try to resist,to protest. The only thing that can save us is removing the threat to us. You all know their names. You know their crimes. It's about time we demand a trial and a punishment. Then we can begin setting things right.
Have a nice day.
Originally posted by FoosM
But that doesn't matter at least people are barking!
Getting people to wake up and pay attention.
* WOOF Grrrrr... *
edit on 18-11-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted We still have a REAL chance to change things and end corporate fascism...
By using the term "corporate fascism" you yourself have given the reason for failure. Basically you are saying that I work and you eat. How about You work and I eat? I would support that.
edit on 18-11-2011 by Nite_wing because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by daryllyn
Before there was 'Occupy' anything the people of ATS would cry for revolution. For protests. For the 'sheeple' (I despise this term.) to get up and DO something. Stand up. Take back the nation. For the people, by the people.. and so on.
So people finally did. They stood up.....
For a vocal minority...
First off, This needs to be addressed and dispelled. Not all ATS members were in lockstep with the movement's half assed approach and still many more were totally against the movement. So just like the movement's audacity in their attempt to speak for the 99% [when they did not] So too is this statements audacious claim of yours...
Second and more importantly there in lies the heart of the problem, what soured the Milk in the cereal for a large percentage of ATS members is this
"If you are not with us then you are against us" mentality further Alienating a large percentage here at ATS who asked hard hitting questions and were critical of the movements Zombie like approach to coordinating and clarifying their goals and agenda.
Originally posted by SLAYER69
Originally posted by hmdphantom
IMO ATSers are mostly net-worm people who can not act in their real world. They just theorize , but they can't act. They are trapped in the net and all the virtual world.
Says the guy online....
I was online , but not on ATS.
+ I am not a net-worm or game-worm.
They just theorize , but they can't act
it is for you to read. Bring me some proof that you are a man of action. Real actions ,and you know that pc-games are not considered as real action.
Maybe some avatar that you have made for yourself.
edit on 18/11/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by FoosM
Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by haarvik
[color=dodgerblue]I can agree with that statement.
I frequently speak with my dear old Dad about current events and he said the same thing. Occupy is barking up the wrong tree. They need to Occupy the whitehouse if they truly want to make a difference.
And I think he was totally right.
But that doesn't matter at least people are barking!
Getting people to wake up and pay attention.
How long is one expected to listen to the barking dog on the back porch?
A: You finally let the dog in
B: You toss him a bone to shut him up for 20 minutes
C: Your neighbor comes over and cuts his leash to set him free
Two months of tossing bones at OWS and nothing has resulted from this so called "movement". No open dialogue, just daily meetings within the camp to discuss camp business and the evening meal. The public has lost interest hence the escalation of events that we saw yesterday. Its just like watching a bad reality TV show. Don't turn the channel yet...stay tuned for the next episode when Snookie gets made the Situation. Don't want to miss that....
The poll numbers are plummeting everyday because people see stuff like this and can't believe what they see.
Small schoolchildren were forced to walk the gauntlet of frenzied Wall Street Occupiers just to get to school on Thursday. What’s worse, protesters reportedly screamed “follow those kids!” as worried parents tried to lead their children through the police barriers along Wall Street. CBS reports that the NYPD was thankfully there to help the kids and ease their fears — clearly a factor given that one protester did in fact follow a father and his daughter down the entire block.
newyork.cbslocal.com...
JUST WRONG!
Originally posted by Klassified
Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by sheepslayer247
IMO ATSers are mostly net-worm people who can not act in their real world. They just theorize , but they can't act. They are trapped in the net and all the virtual world.
I do not believe this is true. There are many intelligent and articulate people on ATS. The kind of folks that frequent ATS seldom have a problem interacting with the "real world". What you are talking about is a stereotype at best. It has been perpetuated because there are folks who have a vested interest in keeping us divided, and putting labels on one another.
The "net-worms" you're talking about exist. But I would be willing to bet they are a minority here.
Oh I didn't intend to divide. I never do.
I just wanted to help some people remember to care about themselves.
+ In my country there are much net-worms who are just addicted to net and wasting time.
Sometimes , I waste my time on the net , too.
Maybe by posting this reply.
Oh the Occupy Movement, what I hoped you’d be, and yes you failed to live up to your own charter.
What I saw was a group of people waking up to the injustice of the present social economic model. A group of young, intelligent people standing up for those who would not or could not stand for themselves. Like the Tea Party before you, the original complaints were more valid then anyone would admit. Also like the Tea Party before you; I donated time, money, and service for a just cause; and like the Tea Party it collapsed under the forces of the fringe and is now a mockery of anyone willing to stand and say “No this is wrong.”
In the early days of the movement I took part in the so called “General Assemblies”. This exercise in “Direct Democracy” only served to reinforce my opinion that a true democracy is an utterly insane way to rule. I spoke my mind, shared my ideas and my opinions only to be derided for being a “Right Wing Fascist”; much like when I shared the same ideas at a local Tea Party meeting and was ridiculed for being a “Leftist Communist”.
You see both movements are angry at the same thing, but both are so devoid of the ability to think outside the present programming to see it. Hell, successes each side hold as examples of purity are would never have occurred if at the time what is being demanded by either side were to hold true.
For example, the civil rights movement the left holds so dear would not have passed had we had a true democracy. The majority of the people of the nation were against it. Only by having a representative republic were laws passed to protect the minority from the majority; yet today to fight for exactly the type of government which would have rejected that very cause.
The right has the same issue. Under, what many believe is the pinnacle of republican administration, Ronald Reagan; the capitol gains tax rate was brought inline with income tax rates. This was a tax increase to allow us to spend money on national infrastructure and defense. Today you follow the likes of Grover Norquist and insist on being blinded to being robbed.
The Nation is not beyond being saved, but the centrist of both the Tea Party, and the Occupy movement need to shed the weight their extremist brethren. If the middle of the two movements were to come together and fight for solutions to the immediate problems instead of focusing on the completely unachievable then maybe we have a chance. Until that happens; the divide and conquer will continue to be successful.
What I saw was a group of people waking up to the injustice of the present social economic model. A group of young, intelligent people standing up for those who would not or could not stand for themselves. Like the Tea Party before you, the original complaints were more valid then anyone would admit. Also like the Tea Party before you; I donated time, money, and service for a just cause; and like the Tea Party it collapsed under the forces of the fringe and is now a mockery of anyone willing to stand and say “No this is wrong.”
In the early days of the movement I took part in the so called “General Assemblies”. This exercise in “Direct Democracy” only served to reinforce my opinion that a true democracy is an utterly insane way to rule. I spoke my mind, shared my ideas and my opinions only to be derided for being a “Right Wing Fascist”; much like when I shared the same ideas at a local Tea Party meeting and was ridiculed for being a “Leftist Communist”.
You see both movements are angry at the same thing, but both are so devoid of the ability to think outside the present programming to see it. Hell, successes each side hold as examples of purity are would never have occurred if at the time what is being demanded by either side were to hold true.
For example, the civil rights movement the left holds so dear would not have passed had we had a true democracy. The majority of the people of the nation were against it. Only by having a representative republic were laws passed to protect the minority from the majority; yet today to fight for exactly the type of government which would have rejected that very cause.
The right has the same issue. Under, what many believe is the pinnacle of republican administration, Ronald Reagan; the capitol gains tax rate was brought inline with income tax rates. This was a tax increase to allow us to spend money on national infrastructure and defense. Today you follow the likes of Grover Norquist and insist on being blinded to being robbed.
The Nation is not beyond being saved, but the centrist of both the Tea Party, and the Occupy movement need to shed the weight their extremist brethren. If the middle of the two movements were to come together and fight for solutions to the immediate problems instead of focusing on the completely unachievable then maybe we have a chance. Until that happens; the divide and conquer will continue to be successful.
Originally posted by SLAYER69
Originally posted by daryllyn
Before there was 'Occupy' anything the people of ATS would cry for revolution. For protests. For the 'sheeple' (I despise this term.) to get up and DO something. Stand up. Take back the nation. For the people, by the people.. and so on.
So people finally did. They stood up.....
For a vocal minority...
First off, This needs to be addressed and dispelled. Not all ATS members were in lockstep with the movement's half assed approach and still many more were totally against the movement. So just like the movement's audacity in their attempt to speak for the 99% [when they did not] So too is this statements audacious claim of yours...
There in lies the heart of the problem. Second and more importantly what soured the Milk in their cereal for a large percentage of ATS members is this
If you are not with us then you are against us" mentality further Alienating a large percentage here at ATS who asked hard hitting questions and were critical of the movements Zombie like approach to coordinating and clarifying their goals and agenda.
reply to post by hmdphantom
And you are implying what? with your Star of David and Wall Street magnet. You've got nothing else to discuss?
And you are implying what? with your Star of David and Wall Street magnet. You've got nothing else to discuss?
reply to post by sheepslayer247
"To those who sat idly by afraid of dirty hippies and socialists: We could have used your help." Very candid statement,not many in the OWS
would admit this was a part of your movement.
That being said ,is it possiable that these sorts of people on top of no real direction to speak of and all the violence and disease may have had something to do with failure? To blame the people that did not show up for what ever the reason just seem's like you are diminishing your cause even more.Blaming others when you should be trying to figure out what went wrong does not show the kind of strenght it takes to accomplish the kind of movement the people in the begening were looking to achive.
Maybe you should ask some of the people that started the movement and saw how it was being taken over by people they wanted nothing to do with knowing the chaos and violence that was comeing.............just a thought.
That being said ,is it possiable that these sorts of people on top of no real direction to speak of and all the violence and disease may have had something to do with failure? To blame the people that did not show up for what ever the reason just seem's like you are diminishing your cause even more.Blaming others when you should be trying to figure out what went wrong does not show the kind of strenght it takes to accomplish the kind of movement the people in the begening were looking to achive.
Maybe you should ask some of the people that started the movement and saw how it was being taken over by people they wanted nothing to do with knowing the chaos and violence that was comeing.............just a thought.
reply to post by daryllyn
I obviously missed your clarification, my apologies. However, my statement still stands with regards to the overzealous nature of many OWS supporters here at ATS. .
I obviously missed your clarification, my apologies. However, my statement still stands with regards to the overzealous nature of many OWS supporters here at ATS. .
The Occupy movement is not dead. However, unless all ninety nine percent of the people who are represented by those who DID protest, actually come and
join in, it will never make a damned bit of difference. And that will not happen in a million years. Know why ? Because people need to feed thier
families, and the people who agree most strongly with the words spoken and the attitudes taken by the protestors, are exactly the people who can least
afford to take a day off, for fear of loosing a days pay, and not being able to pay thier rent, or thier mortgage, or loosing thier job over it, and
having to explain to thier weeping children, why they havent eaten anything approaching a solid meal in so long.
Personally speaking , I would have been at the London Stock exchange myself, if it had only been me that were affected by my absence from work. But my absence from work could have seen our little business shut, my sister and mother on the streets.We live every day on the basis that we might not see another meal for a while, that we may loose our home at any moment, despite the fact that we are small traders. That is not an acceptable price to pay for a peaceful , slow burn protest.You do not treat a gunshot wound by shooting someone, and for that reason I did not show up. No one in that position should be vilified, as OP is doing, for not turning up to those protests, and OP and others must realise that the fact that people ARE in that situation, or worse, is the ONLY reason that fewer people showed up that one would have thought, bearing in mind that it is true that the folk that did REPRESENT the 99 percent of people in the developed world.
If however, the 99% ever decide that action in future must be immediately effective, and defended from interferance from police by way of overwhelming force, then I will surely be there. Do in a night what could be done in a year, and wont cost anyone thier time and job, and Im down with it.
Personally speaking , I would have been at the London Stock exchange myself, if it had only been me that were affected by my absence from work. But my absence from work could have seen our little business shut, my sister and mother on the streets.We live every day on the basis that we might not see another meal for a while, that we may loose our home at any moment, despite the fact that we are small traders. That is not an acceptable price to pay for a peaceful , slow burn protest.You do not treat a gunshot wound by shooting someone, and for that reason I did not show up. No one in that position should be vilified, as OP is doing, for not turning up to those protests, and OP and others must realise that the fact that people ARE in that situation, or worse, is the ONLY reason that fewer people showed up that one would have thought, bearing in mind that it is true that the folk that did REPRESENT the 99 percent of people in the developed world.
If however, the 99% ever decide that action in future must be immediately effective, and defended from interferance from police by way of overwhelming force, then I will surely be there. Do in a night what could be done in a year, and wont cost anyone thier time and job, and Im down with it.
reply to post by sheepslayer247
Yeah...A movement with no clear message sitting around in some park, chanting by day and smoking weed and having sex in tents by night for two straight months without a single accomplishment was indeed our last hope.
We have only ourselves to blame for going to our work/schools while the brave men and women of OWS are fighting tirelessly for our freedom.
Yeah...A movement with no clear message sitting around in some park, chanting by day and smoking weed and having sex in tents by night for two straight months without a single accomplishment was indeed our last hope.
We have only ourselves to blame for going to our work/schools while the brave men and women of OWS are fighting tirelessly for our freedom.
OWS is only the catalyst for things to come. It will not fail, it can not fail. It will not end peacefully, things like this never do.
If people can not see that OWS is a movement to end all corruption. Then I don't know what will make you see.
Its a protest to end surpressed energy
Its a protest to end human suffering
Its a protest to end excessive taxation
Its a protest to end political corruption
Its a protest to end world starvation
Its a protest to end leeching of our rights and freedoms
Its a protest to end hate
Its a protest to end the few from taking advantage of the many period.
Those that can not get it, will not get it.
This whole event is so long over due that some people can't grasp why its so messed up. Its a protest of chaos because of all of the chaos.
ATS did not fail and it continues to do what I believe it ment to do.
ATS is a pit stop in the information highway. A place where debates are made and facts are proven. A site to inform you of ANY topic that needs to be debated on to come to the most factual conclusion. Its focused on conspiracy theories mostly, but from what I can tell you can talk any and all topics.
I get information on this site quickly. So quickly in fact the MSM isn't even reporting about some of the things I see here first, until 2 or 3 days later in most cases.
Not to mention its already all picked apart, chewed up, and spit right back out by alot of pretty smart people that have
already asked the important questions and what not.
So did ATS fail?
No it informs me just as well as it did when I first became a lurker.
Did OWS fail or it going to fail just because it seems to have no one set direction?
No I don't think OWS will fail because its hitting from all directions.
Its just a calm before the next wave hits from the storm.
If people can not see that OWS is a movement to end all corruption. Then I don't know what will make you see.
Its a protest to end surpressed energy
Its a protest to end human suffering
Its a protest to end excessive taxation
Its a protest to end political corruption
Its a protest to end world starvation
Its a protest to end leeching of our rights and freedoms
Its a protest to end hate
Its a protest to end the few from taking advantage of the many period.
Those that can not get it, will not get it.
This whole event is so long over due that some people can't grasp why its so messed up. Its a protest of chaos because of all of the chaos.
ATS did not fail and it continues to do what I believe it ment to do.
ATS is a pit stop in the information highway. A place where debates are made and facts are proven. A site to inform you of ANY topic that needs to be debated on to come to the most factual conclusion. Its focused on conspiracy theories mostly, but from what I can tell you can talk any and all topics.
I get information on this site quickly. So quickly in fact the MSM isn't even reporting about some of the things I see here first, until 2 or 3 days later in most cases.
Not to mention its already all picked apart, chewed up, and spit right back out by alot of pretty smart people that have
already asked the important questions and what not.
So did ATS fail?
No it informs me just as well as it did when I first became a lurker.
Did OWS fail or it going to fail just because it seems to have no one set direction?
No I don't think OWS will fail because its hitting from all directions.
Its just a calm before the next wave hits from the storm.
Originally posted by sheepslayer247
TMany of you tossed the Occupy movements to the side as a political inconvenience and ridiculed the people that were willing to take a stand on principle. These people didn't want to enact a liberal socialist regime that took away capitalism and individual freedoms! They wanted a small glimpse of hope that their future would be brighter than the inside of a corporate cubical or less depressing than an unemployment line.
Before the 'TeaParty Movement was hijacked by the Conservative party, the group was made up of a wide spectrum of true patriots. Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians joined together as one. When 'Occupy Wall Street' came onto the scene, they were organized and controlled by a Democrat leaning magazine called AdBusters. 'Occupy Wall Street' was a failure at the beginning. Once the movement started to accept union and Democrat supporters, the 'true' Republican, Independents, and Libertarians decided the message was clear. 'Occupy: America' is a political machine being used to get Obama reelected. At the heart of 'Occupy's' demands, only one phrase can sum them up - 'redistribution of wealth through class warfare.'
edit on 11/18/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)
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