Death of democracy in Europe

Originally posted by On the level
Every major country ignores their people and drives forward with the EU, France and Germany seem to be the only ones with the appetite for it.

What the hell makes you think that we (Germans) have an "appetite" for the EU ??
No one ever asked the us if we want to be part of the EU... every single person I know disagrees with the EU!

The Banks and the EU -- Who lets be honest, are one in the same -- are STEALING entire countries and nobody except for a few fellow quacks on internet message board and UKIP followers seems to see it.

The banks are giving countries loans that they KNOW can not be paid back, giving them justification(amongst joe public) for then collecting their debts, by stealing control of nations when said countries say "we don't have it".

This can happen to anyone in Europe. Italy and Greece are litmus tests to gauge public reaction. We're all candidate to be the next Italy or Greece. The Banking elite have influenced and controlled governments behind closed doors for years, but it's shocking just how publicly they're going about their activities recently.

I'm starting to wonder if WW2 ever ended? Seems like an awful lot of what is happening can be traced directly to Germany.

It is ONLY the death of the illusion of democracy in Europe. Politics was bought decades ago, power rats own everything now. Their greed will be the death of them

I'm sorry to be so morbid and dire, but this is such a key issue - getting the word out and getting people up to speed on these agendas before they're bought in and they take away our ability to think and act freely. I've seen people rant on about the global conspiracy, and then switch to talking about the brainchip and similar technologies as if the two are in no way related. I'm betting that a great many people haven't yet made the obvious connection between brainchip and absolute tyranny..

I am doing my best, I see few others who are.

Great post OP !

I was thinking where was the thread which addressed the events of the last week, and here it is

Personally I am very unerved by what has taken place, the very people who created this mess, have been given ultimate power, and in some way perversely rewarded for playing their part in creating the crisis in the first place.

Even more unerving is that before the respective prime ministers bowed out so to speak, they had to pass certain austerity measures before the technocrats (I am a little uncertain what this means, let alone how the term came about) took control, therefore in effect rendering the people of said countries a little voiceless, because technically they can just say " But it was your 'elected official' who passed the first wave, you voted them, to make decisions on your behalf." In essence these initial measures having been undertaken in a democratic (yeah right, I know, but...) manner, make it hard for anyone to formulate an argument to the contrary.

I just keep thinking which will be the next domino (country) to fall.

I'm am certain an 'end' to the euro would presumably mean a reversion back to national currencies. Obviously this will not happen, as it's the opposite of what all this was planned for, but if the euro was somehow finished, there would no doubt be a period of economic 'readjustment' for all the countries involved, and unless they all decided to wipe the debt, there would be a lot of mess in trying to sort out all the loose ends from 16 years of diverse economies using a standard currency.

I'll keep this thread in mind as I come forward with more Truths.

An Irish budget paper was found before the German lower parliament today for some reason. The government has denied that they have to submit budget proposals before the Germans... Budget is at the start of December, Enda Kenny was in Berlin, somethings not right

reply to post by ColCurious


I can see that I was in Germany and the rest of Europe this year, seems like you Germans got your items in line..... Holding up the EU in my opinion well... you and Spain ha

reply to post by Atzil321


HELLO your tax dollars, for the last 60 years, is over there, we have been losing our retirement future becase the CONRESS have had Europe, and most of asia as a welfare state, now we have no cash to send them and guess what, read the headlines, and you want 4 more year of this,

I'd usually say that we have neither the right nor the responsibility to try and 'wake up' the uninitiated, but this guy was asking us.

I have plenty more where that came from and those with intellect will pay close attention.

A State of the Nation address was just given by the Irish Taoiseach, it started off by having both the EU and Irish flags (minor detail but still), but he went on to confirm that Ireland supports stronger economic governence from Europe, which basically means more powers being ceded to Europe.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
The Banks and the EU -- Who lets be honest, are one in the same -- are STEALING entire countries and nobody except for a few fellow quacks on internet message board and UKIP followers seems to see it.

I think Elsa Fornero, the Italian welfare minister just got it...



Neo-Nationalism...coming to a sovereign country near you!

Let's take a clinical approach to the latest proposal by those supposed leaders to save EU.

1. They disband democracy to allow outsiders to determine the national budgets of EU sovereign states because:-

a. Those economic leaders had failed to balance their budgets and probably had misused billions, if not trillions of precious funds through ineptitude, corruption,cronyism and collusion with banks/Corps.

Blame those leaders whom had failed, and now need outsiders to do the job for them.

.
2. The fear of outsiders doing the job is that they may have no empathy for citizens. They are, after all, only bean counters where everything is defined as a number and not lives, nor care about the impact their 'solutions' may have on human lives.

The rational and only thing to do 'by the book' is to cut spending, so that tax revenues can then be used to pay off loans.

Unfortunately, if it was only so easy to go 'by the book', financial crisises would never had happened in the first place.

By cutting spending, hoarding up revenue to pay off loans, it will mean little or none will be left for public expenditure. The size of sovereign debt interest alone more than takes up all revenues earned from GDP. Worse is that paying off interest would means the capital sum WOULD NEVER be paid back, and generations will forever be enslaved.

Public expenditure is not just about paying off civil servants. Much of those funds goes into education, providing utilities to citizens, subsidizing high costs of healthcare to the poor, social benefits to help those fallen on the wayside to temporary tide over hard times, for the aged whom are too old to work to have a meal or two, etc.

Once that is cut, think of the horrors that would befall society. Every human will become enslaved. His labour belongs to debts. Taxes will be high. Children will have no or little value education. The sick left to die. The poor and aged left to die.

Without motivation, there will be nationalism pride, except for a free for all society, to rob, intimidate, and scam others in order to survive.

I can go on. But you will get the drift... Fiscal Totalitarianism is not the way to go. Even if the outsiders were genius, they know not the citizens whom they willl need to support the economy, or are too high in their ivory towers, out of the touch of the common suffering citizens.

Hang ( figuratively) the leaders, say no to repayment or at least moratorium of 30 yrs interest free, and choose amongst own citizens for an administrators to guide a better direction for foreign investments into ready laid infrastructure to generate jobs and wealth for all, rationally, sensibly, and honestly. This is the only way, or europe will burn...

Democracy perished with Classical Greece. Is this meant to be news?

The New Roman Senate of Pederasts (the EU appointees) oversteps themselves and everyone bows before their greatness.

Their house of cards trembles, and they respond with greater controls, literally knocking out the governments of member nations to prove their point.

Italy and Greece's governments have not been up to snuff. It is up to the people of Italy and Greece to deal with them. If the people of Italy and Greece would rather be dumb and let themselves fail, let them fail and rebuild.

Failure MUST be an option. That it is not is in and of itself a suicidal type of failure. Let them fail now - they are the vanguard position in Europe and their inherent strength from the bottom up is not something Europe can afford to lose.

Democracy may had ended with classical greece, but its idealogy of freedom will never die out until the last human dies.

Foreign investments will save Europe now. Foreign investments does not mean selling away national assets. It's only how one thinks out of the box to have a win win solution for both citizens and foreign investors.

There was a report that Greece had problem buying fuel for its national utilities expenditure from international markets because of its credit standing, or the lack of it, which deterred sellers whom will take no more credit lines from Greece.

This will be what happens to nations whom default. But it is not and need not be the end.

In Greece case, all it needs to do is to sell off its power generation infrastructure to private investors, BUT only for a limited term of perhaps 30 yrs and then it reverts back to the People, akin to a lease than outright sale. This way, the investors will get returns from payment by citizens for generating power, and foreign investor would have better credit rating than Greece to purchase oil on the open market.

If one investor turns away, there are many more deep pocket others, and the kind of perks and priviledges Greece can offe, without sacrificing soveriegnity, or forcing citizens to pay exhorbitant prices for private enterprise power generation, seeking only for stable returns and not casino profits.

Same with govt land, and even private enterprises such as vineyards even if privately local owned, for the gov can determine the kind of ownership allowed in its country - freehold or leasehold. Leasehold is always best, for it will be reverted back to the People, generations later, and not owned by foreigners.

Where is true leadership when one needs them????

oh but guys havn't you seen the new logo of the european council ?
I caught my eye
our van rompey was standing infront of it.



helloooo... scary

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The main difference I can see between us is that we're still allowed to own firearms while all of Europe has been disarmed long ago.

Why do Americans believe that they are the only ones allowed to have guns?

There are 7 million privately owned firearms in Italy and 2.5 million in Greece.
Guns in Italy
Guns in Greece

While these numbers seem small compared to the US their governments have less guns then those in civilian hands. The heavy artillery is what makes the difference and your not allowed that either.

Besides, all this was done without a single shot, including the super congress. Got to hand it to them they have learned how to up the heat without things boiling over.