What? Jewish text predicts Mohammad as Ishmaelite prophet??

I just happened upon this interesting piece of jewish text earlier today.

When he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: 'Was it not enough, what the wicked kingdom of Edom did to us, but we must have the kingdom of Ishmael too?' At once, Metatron the prince of the (divine) countenance answered and said, Do not fear, son of man, for the Holy One only brings the kingdom of Ishmael in order to save you from this wickedness.
He raises up over them a Prophet according to his will and will conquer the land for them and they will come and restore it in greatness, and there will be great terror between them and the sons of Esau.'....when he, the rider on the camel, goes forth the kingdom will arise through the rider on an ass..."
- Beit HaMidrash 3:78

It is clear that Mohammad, the ONLY Ishmaelite prophet, was the one who was "raised up over them"(Ishmaelites)... and "conquered the land for them".

If there is someone here who is well versed in Jewish texts, it would be great if he/she can expand upon this... and provide a context. I'm curious to know, as I admit I do not know much about Jewish religious texts, except for whats in the christian bibles.

www.usc.edu...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I just happened upon this interesting piece of jewish text earlier today.

When he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: 'Was it not enough, what the wicked kingdom of Edom did to us, but we must have the kingdom of Ishmael too?' At once, Metatron the prince of the (divine) countenance answered and said, Do not fear, son of man, for the Holy One only brings the kingdom of Ishmael in order to save you from this wickedness.
He raises up over them a Prophet according to his will and will conquer the land for them and they will come and restore it in greatness, and there will be great terror between them and the sons of Esau.'....when he, the rider on the camel, goes forth the kingdom will arise through the rider on an ass..."
- Beit HaMidrash 3:78

It is clear that Mohammad, the ONLY Ishmaelite prophet, was the one who was "raised up over them"(Ishmaelites)... and "conquered the land for them".

If there is someone here who is well versed in Jewish texts, it would be great if he/she can expand upon this... and provide a context. I'm curious to know, as I admit I do not know much about Jewish religious texts, except for whats in the christian bibles.

www.usc.edu...

edit on 17-11-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Men are capable of three things on earth: 1) Loving-kindness 2) Justice 3) Evil

God can only do two of these: Loving-kindness and Justice

When the two lives of each of the brothers is examined from the Bible, we know the facts of each. God has complete foreknowledge of future events. The Midrash is a Rabbinic text that expands on the allegory in the Bible and is based on the experiences of the Hebrew people after the pages of the Bible were written. The text you quote comes from the previous view that the Apocalypse was happening in the day and age when the verse above was written.

What it states is based on a truth that may or may not be rightly divided from the word of God in Genesis. The Midrash contains a good bit of interesting perspective and it also contains a good bit of fable based on the imaginations of Rabbis who we speaking from pride to be seen as inspired. Much of it is twisted imagination to create a light on the Rabbi and does not necessarily reflect the light of God on man.

God brought the nation of Ishmael to fullness because of Abraham's request in Genesis 17. This is His loving-kindness to Abraham and Sarah. God brings justice as well to all those who have lived on earth. Each nation reveals the nature of loving-kindness, justice and evil. History will teach this message to us by the archetypes found in each nation. We are spiritual beings living a human experience. The experience is a lesson that will be reflected on in truth at a later time of our existence. Again, this experience is God's loving-kindness to us as our education for the kingdom of God. We perceive this as harsh. Upon reflection, we will see that it was necessary.

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

We have trouble knowing how God has complete foreknowledge. We are incapable of seeing more than a few years into the future. God can see the entire 4th dimension. Since the entire 4th dimension exists, we only see the 'now' of what is happening. We ride the wave of infinity from point A to point B. God is the wave of infinity at rest. We are the point on the wave in motion.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

We have trouble knowing how God has complete foreknowledge. We are incapable of seeing more than a few years into the future. God can see the entire 4th dimension. Since the entire 4th dimension exists, we only see the 'now' of what is happening

So you are implying that the jews understood that there would be a prophet over the Ishmaelites?

thats it?
No more responses? I dont understand the silence.
Always thought the religious folks on ATS were big time supporters of jews.

Anyway, I have emailed a Rabbi this same question.... expecting an answer shortly....and will post the reply here as soon as i get it.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I just happened upon this interesting piece of jewish text earlier today.

When he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: 'Was it not enough, what the wicked kingdom of Edom did to us, but we must have the kingdom of Ishmael too?' At once, Metatron the prince of the (divine) countenance answered and said, Do not fear, son of man, for the Holy One only brings the kingdom of Ishmael in order to save you from this wickedness.
He raises up over them a Prophet according to his will and will conquer the land for them and they will come and restore it in greatness, and there will be great terror between them and the sons of Esau.'....when he, the rider on the camel, goes forth the kingdom will arise through the rider on an ass..."
- Beit HaMidrash 3:78

It is clear that Mohammad, the ONLY Ishmaelite prophet, was the one who was "raised up over them"(Ishmaelites)... and "conquered the land for them".

If there is someone here who is well versed in Jewish texts, it would be great if he/she can expand upon this... and provide a context. I'm curious to know, as I admit I do not know much about Jewish religious texts, except for whats in the christian bibles.

www.usc.edu...

edit on 17-11-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

What? It does? What prophecies did Muhammad make? Oh right. None. An ishmaelite is an arab. The prophecy says nothing about a muslim being the prophet and there are non muslim arabs. Muhammad made no prophecies of his own.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

We have trouble knowing how God has complete foreknowledge. We are incapable of seeing more than a few years into the future. God can see the entire 4th dimension. Since the entire 4th dimension exists, we only see the 'now' of what is happening

So you are implying that the jews understood that there would be a prophet over the Ishmaelites?

No. Based on my quote below, the Rabbis are taking the written word and making their own. If it's inspired or not, I have no proof. The Bible is written in a Heptadic structure. I have not observed this in the Midrash. The statement in the Midrash is similar to what is already said in the Bible in Genesis 17. As I say in the quote below, I am not very confident in the Rabbinical texts, as it seems they are focusing on themselves more than a true word from God.

What it states is based on a truth that may or may not be rightly divided from the word of God in Genesis. The Midrash contains a good bit of interesting perspective and it also contains a good bit of fable based on the imaginations of Rabbis who we speaking from pride to be seen as inspired. Much of it is twisted imagination to create a light on the Rabbi and does not necessarily reflect the light of God on man.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The prophecy says nothing about a muslim being the prophet and there are non muslim arabs. Muhammad made no prophecies of his own.

The prophecy clearly gives a strong hint towards the prophets identity. If the word "muslim" does not exist then, its because Islam as we know it today did not exist back then.. but then again the word "muslim" basically means "ones who submits to God".... which all the OT prophets and Jesus were.

Why dont you address what that text actually says...
"the Holy One only brings the kingdom of Ishmael in order to save you from this wickedness. He raises up over them a Prophet according to his will and will conquer the land for them and they will come and restore it in greatness,"

If this quote is true... then who else do you think the prophet raised over the Ishmaelites is? Tell me.
Or are you just uncomfortable knowing that a certain Ishmaelite was given prophethood.

Hello there!! I just found your post searching Google. Amazing!!

It confirms my theory. Please take your time to read it slowly.

Proof of our Prophet (SAW) in the Bible

Genesis 16:11-12

11 And the angel of the LORD said to her, "Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction. 12 He shall be a WILD DONKEY of a man,

Job 11:5-13

5 But oh, that God would speak and open his lips to you, 6 and that he would tell you the secrets of wisdom! For he is manifold in understanding. Know then that God exacts of you less than your guilt deserves. 7 "Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty? 8 It is higher than heaven--what can you do? Deeper than Sheol--what can you know? 9 Its measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea. 10 If he passes through and imprisons and summons the court, who can turn him back? 11 For he knows worthless men; when he sees iniquity, will he not consider it? 12 But a stupid man will get understanding when a WILD DONKEY'S COLT is born a man! 13 "If you prepare your heart, you will stretch out your hands toward him.

God uses a code that Ishmael (AS) is a 'wild donkey' (pereh adam in hebrew) , hence a descendant of Ishmael will provide a prophet that is to deliver 'the secrets of wisdom'

And just to prove to you that the Koran was written by the same author.

Koran 31:19

"And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."

Here we see that God has continued the code of the donkey for us in the Koran so that he uses the same parables and riddles throughout his scriptures.

The beginning of Proverbs for context: ( So you can understand that deep, hidden things are written in riddle and parable)

Proverbs 1:1-7
The Beginning of Knowledge
1 The proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel: 2 To know wisdom and instruction, to understand words of insight, 3 to receive instruction in wise dealing, in righteousness, justice, and equity; 4 to give prudence to the simple, knowledge and discretion to the youth-- 5 Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance, 6 to understand a proverb and a saying, the words of the wise and their riddles. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.


Proverbs 30:21-23
21 Under three things the earth trembles; under four it cannot bear up: 22 a slave when he becomes king, and a fool when he is filled with food; 23 an unloved woman when she gets a husband, and a MAIDSERVANT when she displaces her MISTRESS.

(Maidservant=Hagar, Mistress= Sara) (The Earth cannot bear up on the day of the LORD due to the great Earthquake that flattens the land. This earthquake is mentioned in Old Testament, New Testament and Quran)

Psalms 86:14-17

14 O God, insolent men have risen up against me; a band of ruthless men seeks my life, and they do not set you before them. 15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. 16 Turn to me and be gracious to me; give your strength to your servant, and SAVE THE SON OF YOUR MAIDSERVANT. 17 Show me a sign of your favor, that those who hate me may see and be put to shame because you, LORD, have helped me and comforted me.

Psalms 116:15-19

15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. 16 O LORD, I am your servant; I AM YOUR SERVANT, THE SON OF YOUR MAIDSERVANT. You have loosed my bonds. 17 I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving and call on the name of the LORD. 18 I will pay my vows to the LORD in the presence of all his people, 19 in the courts of the house of the LORD, in your midst, O Jerusalem. Praise the LORD!

By the way whenever a prophet writes, or David writes 'I am your servant' there is always a footnote next to 'servant' when you follow those footnotes it will always say: 'or bondservant'.
'Bondservant' is another word for 'Slave'
Thus we see that David is testifying against Israel and for the nation of Ishmael. This is confirmed in Koran.

Proof that Ishmael was used in the sacrifice and not Isaac:

The Bible is written chronologically and it clearly states that Ishmael was born before Isaac.
We also see that Allah references Ishmael as Abraham's 'son' and Abraham also reference Ishmael as his 'son'.
So when we look at the "Sacrifice of Isaac" that occurs in the Torah, we are left with a curious contradiction.
Ishmael was sent away with Hagar, he was not disowned, nor was he no longer his son as he comes back to bury Abraham with Isaac as his sons later in Genesis.
So bearing this in mind let us look at Genesis 22:

Gen 22:1-2
1 After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I." 2 He said, "Take your son, your ONLY SON Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

Gen 22:12
12 He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your ONLY SON, from me

Gen 22:16
16 and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your ONLY SON,

How could Isaac have been his 'only son'? Surely his only son could only come from the time where he had only borne one son to him. ... i.e. his first born

This led me to believe that a 'cut and paste job' of switching the names of Isaac and Ishmael had occurred.

Bearing this in mind I found A SHOCKING FACT... following this reasoning I was reading the Book of Jubilees:

BOOK OF JUBILEES 18:7

11 And I said to him: 'Lay not your hand upon the lad, neither do you anything to him; for now I have shown that you fear YAHWEH, and have not withheld your son, your FIRST-BORN SON, from me.'


God has always explained that Ishmael was used in the sacrifice through code:

Genesis 16:11-12

11 And the angel of the LORD said to her, "Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction. 12 He shall be a WILD DONKEY of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."

Please understand and note that Ishmael (pbuh) is referenced as a 'Wild Donkey' much like Israel is referred to as a 'Fig Tree' throughout the bible

This explains why in Exodus 34:20, under the chapter headed "The covenant renewed",

19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. 20 The FIRSTBORN OF A DONKEY YOU SHALL REDEEM with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.

Exodus 13:13
Every firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. Every firstborn of man among your sons you shall redeem.

He explains that all first born animals without blemish are his and thus sacrificed to the LORD (Allah), EXCEPT when it is a donkey!(Ishmael) which is to be redeemed with a lamb (ram) just as in the sacrifice story!! The FIRST BORN SON (Ishmael)

Koran 16:8
8 [he created] horses, mules, and donkeys for you to ride
and use for show, and other things you know nothing about.
God uses donkeys as a code in scripture, and the Koran confirms it.


These passages not only tell you that reading the Torah and obeying the Law is important, but also the very passage you need to read to prove Ishmael was used in the sacrifice! Allah knows best. I truly did read the Bible before I read the Koran and have found that it truly is a confirming and correcting book.

Finally to show that the Gospels reflect the same authorship... The religion of Jesus (as) is Islam

Mark 11:1-11
The Triumphal Entry
1 Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples 2 and said to them, "Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will FIND A COLT TIED, on which NO ONE HAS EVER SAT. Untie it and bring it. 3 If anyone says to you, 'Why are you doing this?' say, 'The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.'" 4 And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. 5 And some of those standing there said to them, "What are you doing, untying the colt?" 6 And they told them what Jesus had said, and they let them go. 7 And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and he sat on it. 8 And many spread their cloaks on the road, and others spread leafy branches that they had cut from the fields. 9 And those who went before and those who followed were shouting, "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! 10 Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!" 11 And he entered Jerusalem and went into the temple. And when he had looked around at everything, as it was already late, he went out to Bethany with the twelve

Jesus (as) entered the temple riding a wild donkey's colt (a donkey on which no-one has sat). He is a muslim, or:

'The Rider on an Ass" above.

Please tell me what you think.

Peace.

The position of the SUN, MOON and STARS

Koran 56-75-76
Nay, I swear by the places of the stars -
And lo! that verily is a tremendous oath, if ye but knew –


This has to do with the covenant that God has made with us.

Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD of hosts is his name:
36 "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever."


The term "offspring of Israel" can be also translated as "SEED of Israel" which is this nation that has received the Koran.

Koran 6:133
And your Lord is the Self-sufficient one, the Lord of mercy; if He pleases, He may take you off, and make whom He pleases successors after you, even as He raised you up from the SEED of another people.

God will break his covenant with us. I shall explain more later in this article.

The 19 Angels of Hell

The Koran issues a challenge in 74:27-31
Sahih International
And what can make you know what is Saqar (Hell-fire)?
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned],
Blackening the skins.
Over it are nineteen [angels].
And We have not made the keepers (literal translation: companions) of the Fire except angels. And We have not made their number except as a trial for those who disbelieve - that those who were given the Scripture will be convinced and those who have believed will increase in faith and those who were given the Scripture and the believers will not doubt and that those in whose hearts is hy-pocrisy and the disbelievers will say, "What does Allah intend by this as an example?" Thus does Allah leave astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows the soldiers of your Lord except Him. And mention of the Fire is not but a reminder to humanity.

The 19 Angels are named in the Book of Enoch (Idris) or Enoch 1. These are the angels who defied God and took human wivesd and produced Giants (the Nephilim)

Book of Enoch – Chapter 69
1 And after this judgement they shall terrify and make them to tremble because they have shown this to those who dwell on the earth. 2 And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, 3 the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel. And these are the chiefs of their angels and their names, and their chief ones over hundreds and over fifties and over tens].

Twenty-one names are given, but Azazel and Turel have been repeated. There are in fact nineteen angels spoken of here. These are the 'Companions of Hell'.

This is confirmed in Genesis 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown

Peace