That's it! We're done! PM Bends OVER for Obama!

reply to post by outsidethesquare

I probably am thinking of the bogans, but the American version of the bogans are largely what is responsible for America's reputation in the world, up until the Bush administration that is.

Australia is the biggest power in the South Pacific. I'm sure some nations deal with them as equals, but do they treat all those little island chains as equals? Maybe they do.

The powerful are not always able to perceive themselves as the weak perceive them. They make assumptions that others are afraid to challenge.

I know that not all Australians are bogans, but in almost all of the Australians I have met there is an air of being from another planet, that has nothing to do with the planet that everyone else lives on. That worldview is coming to an end and it must be a wrench for Australians.

If I've overstated my case, I do apologize.

reply to post by Kryties


Mate you have nailed it. I think it is a cultural thing (even though we Aussies are supposedly without culture ... another thread ?) and at some point, when we are dealing with cultural differences (however minor) and we end up in an almighty slanging match, we just have to take a different look at it
.
Facts are facts you can't argue with , so I suggest humility (no one listens when they are being abused anyhow ... they're too busy coming up with the next retort) and a cool "non-personal" head, presenting the facts without unnecessary antagonising, would encourage more productive dialogue.

Yes we have a proud heritage but we have nothing to prove.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

I know that not all Australians are bogans, but in almost all of the Australians I have met there is an air of being from another planet, that has nothing to do with the planet that everyone else lives on.

That's got to do with the fact that for the majority of our existance we have been treated like we are on another planet. Before planes, Australia was a helluva boat-ride from anywhere - (if you remember England sent their crims here, being the furthest place they could find for them). With TV and Radio we got programming YEARS after it was seen in the northern hemisphere - this continues today, although the gap is not quite as big, but still inexcusable. Even in modern day, globalist times we are price-gouged by international companies charging us twice as much as the rest of the world pays - with the excuse being that we are isolated and far away from where the manufacturing is.

If we are seen as being from another planet, it's because that is how the world has treated us for the last 200 years.

reply to post by Kryties


Slightly off topic, but just had to say how much I am enjoying my new kerosene powered T.V and internet!

reply to post by Kryties

That is undoubtedly true.

But it doesn't stop there, human nature being what it is. My American cousin, who is a really nice, but slightly feisty, person, told me that when she went to visit Europe, she found that a lot of people expected her to be the "Ugly American". It got to be a pain in the butt encountering this expectation over and over again, so she decided to "give 'em what they want" and started to act like an Ugly American.

I don't think there is a right and wrong in all of this, but just the fact of this thread tells me that this latest development in Australian international relations is a shock, an unwelcome shock, to Australians.

It's understandable. It's a departure from a generations old pattern of how Australia has been able or has had to deal with the world.

Adaptation is the answer. Working smart with your new BFF. That's the way it is now.

reply to post by Timely


Kerosene powered? My god where have I been?

I'm still using mice running on little wheels.....

reply to post by ipsedixit


i've always considered Canadians to be very similar to Aussies to be honest. Similar humour, similar humble, relaxed outlook on life. Sure when we both say 'car' we say 'cahhh' and you guys say 'k'err' but other than that we're pretty similar lol

maybe you met the Australians that John West rejected.

The differences in our view on reality may be down to the fact that your big bro's (and therefore you) are used to constant war and outward patriotism, whereas we're used to mainly peace time and a more laid back outlook on things. When the poo hits the fan however, we're very quick to jump to it.

Different cultures always have different ways and views. But to make this thread very, very simple it boils down to this.

The U.S. sees a threat from a nation that we currently do not. Therefore they are flexing their marine muscle in our direction. A lot of people are not taking kindly to it. It's nothing to do with an 'awakening' or 'change' or whatever you want to phrase it as, it's seen as unnecessary to most.

You'd need to live here a while to understand. And to answer another question, yes we do treat our indonesian/northern friends with a lot of respect.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I don't think there is a right and wrong in all of this, but just the fact of this thread tells me that this latest development in Australian international relations is a shock, an unwelcome shock, to Australians.

It's understandable. It's a departure from a generations old pattern of how Australia has been able or has had to deal with the world.

For many, the feeling is that the world has shoved us into a corner, taken advantage of and otherwise ignored us - and NOW they want us to play ball?

If anyone knows how the average Aussie responds to a situation like that, they will completely understand what this is all about.

Yes, we need to come out and play. In doing so, though, we will not be lorded over and we will not be bullied - as long as those terms are met then you will find Aussies are more than happy to come back to Earth - so to speak.

Originally posted by outsidethesquare

maybe you met the Australians that John West rejected.

I had a nice cup of tea that is now running down my monitor after reading that! Good call mate!!!

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by Kryties

 

That is undoubtedly true.

But it doesn't stop there, human nature being what it is. My American cousin, who is a really nice, but slightly feisty, person, told me that when she went to visit Europe, she found that a lot of people expected her to be the "Ugly American". It got to be a pain in the butt encountering this expectation over and over again, so she decided to "give 'em what they want" and started to act like an Ugly American.

I don't think there is a right and wrong in all of this, but just the fact of this thread tells me that this latest development in Australian international relations is a shock, an unwelcome shock, to Australians.

It's understandable. It's a departure from a generations old pattern of how Australia has been able or has had to deal with the world.

Adaptation is the answer. Working smart with your new BFF. That's the way it is now.

This is nothing new, the U.S. and AUS. have been back and forth to each others bases on rotation for years.

We are allies who have been and currently are there for each other. Not just in a military sense either, we have helped each other in bush/forest fires (think Ericsson skycrane) Bali bombing, 911 and I am sure you could find more if you searched.

We have also been a player on the world stage for some time now, come on, as a fellow member of the commonwealth, I thought you would have been aware of this.

Originally posted by outsidethesquare
Different cultures always have different ways and views. But to make this thread very, very simple it boils down to this.

The U.S. sees a threat from a nation that we currently do not. Therefore they are flexing their marine muscle in our direction. A lot of people are not taking kindly to it. It's nothing to do with an 'awakening' or 'change' or whatever you want to phrase it as, it's seen as unnecessary to most.

I'm sure most Australians agree with you. From the Canadian perspective, I think your take on this is overly simplistic. It is what one would expect of a typical citizen of a nation that is suddenly no longer "off the beaten path."

You'd need to live here a while to understand.

I disagree. This is not about China's relationship with Australia. This is about politics in the wider world that Australians might be reluctant to acknowledge.

And to answer another question, yes we do treat our indonesian/northern friends with a lot of respect.

That is not always the case but it is typical of the powerful to believe that.

www.vanuatu.usp.ac.fj...

The NLGC negotiations with Australia suffered from imbalance caused by size and status so that Australia was reluctant to take their representations seriously even after Nauru’s independence and attainment of sovereign statehood.

I did a cursory Google search for dirt in Australia's relationships with it's island neighbors and I didn't find much. Congratulations. It speaks well of Australia.

Maybe Australia is only very seldom arrogant with it's neighbors. Excellent. Even nice guy Canada can be a bully, given the opportunity, given the right victim with nobody to defend it.

reply to post by Timely

What you are saying is true. Canada has been in some of the same places in the same capacity.

But this is different. This isn't Australia landing on somebody else's shore, or taking part in the victory parade when the "magnificent seven" steamroller some basket case nation.

What's going on now is a "reality bites" moment in Australian politics.

Just like when the US icebreaker Manhattan sailed through Canadian waters in the north, trying to assert that the Northwest Passage through the Canadian northern islands is an international waterway. (One of our teeny tiny tough as nails icebreakers had to haul them out of the pack ice.)

Welcome to our nightmare.

reply to post by ipsedixit


your posts have a recurring theme of us 'not accepting what other countries do' and wanting to live in some alternate reality, or being upset with change etc. You've got the wrong end of the stick completely. We are not new to conflict, and world politics, not in the slightest. Having US personnel here is not new. We disagree with the politics coming from your corner of the globe, simple as that.

reply to post by Kryties


Not much else to say really, have a star and goognight!

reply to post by Timely


Thankyou for the sentiment - apparently not everyone has a sense of humour though. It wasn't even off-topic

Thank the stars for my fellow Aussies, with whom humour is never lost.

Originally posted by quedup
Now you know why they had to get rid of Rudd, he would never have gone along with their wishes, so they put in a person who they know will be easy to manipulate.

She isn't even an elected leader.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Rudd was obviously too friendly with China for the US and as a result, had to go.

reply to post by ipsedixit


There are no ice breakers involved here nor tanks or any other type of " in your face" bully boy tactics.

As I understand it; as of mid 2012, Two hundred and fifty extra Marines ( key word - extra ) are to be added in rotation at three top end Aussie bases. This number is envisioned to grow to two and a half thousand in number during following years. There will also be an increased presence of the U.S.A.F. during this time.

This is not only consentual but welcomed ( we buy our R.A.A.F. fighters from these guys! ).

Relax, the U.S. nor China are about to run us out of our home. We are here and we're not asleep.

Id just assume pull the troops and scrap the JSF sales but hey, I dont run things.
Im sure the Aussies are comfortable in those hornets and are fully capable of fending for themselves.

Why? Because ultimately its up to the Australians to decide who is stationed on their land and who they want to train with. Im fine either way and I dont see the point in arguing with them about it. We shouldnt be where we arent wanted anyway.

reply to post by outsidethesquare

Some Australian wrote the title of the thread. That's how I got confused about things, not to mention a few of the posts in the thread.

Reading through, I got the distinct impression that there was consternation in Australia about this development. Not official consternation of course, but some Aussies seem to be upset about American troops down under.

I checked out The Australian newspaper though, and just as you say, no evidence of concern. Quite the opposite, in fact. People seem to think President Obama's visit went well.

www.theaustralian.com.au...