PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

Inviting friends over to watch a movie isn’t the same as piracy. Back in the day, one person would buy a movie, invite over some friends to watch said movie, and the friends that loved that movie would go out that week and buy a copy of their own, making sure those who worked on the project got their pay.
What you’re talking about is pirating a movie, in which no one gets paid, then if your friends happen to like the flick, they then go to the site you got your copy from, and pirate it for themselves. Meaning now 10-15 people have stolen a movie, taking the money of 10-15 copies of a product off of store shelves, hurting both the entertainment industry AND the businesses that sell these movies.
I’m sorry, but 10,000 wrongs do not make a right. It takes money to make, advertise, and produce movies and music. Though the people who work on a project; actors, musicians, sound, lighting, wardrobe, travel expenses, writers, directors, and a hundred other people aren’t all dependent on the money that their project makes in order to make a living, as they are generally paid in advance, the producers are dependent on the returns to get, not only their money back, but enough to make a profit and to make MORE movies in the future to create MORE jobs for those people. Are actors and musicians overpaid? Sure. Does that mean that stealing their work is okay? No, because you aren’t just stealing their work. You’re stealing from the writer who conceived the story, from the producer who pulled the people together to get the story off the page, from the director and conceptual artists who turned the words into a vision, from the set builders and wardrobe people who turned that vision into a world, and the actors who brought that world to life.
As a writer myself, I am dependent on the toss up that the manuscripts I write are a success. My next job is dependent on that truth. Dollars earned are dollars earned, and don’t account for stolen copies, which in turn makes a success appear weaker, making the prospect of follow up work even more of a pipe dream.
Your average writer has the shelf life of a gallon of milk. Only a rare few make it to become lifetime writers. How many careers in the last 10 years have been ruined by some “innocent” piracy? You’re no better than the person who walks into a Best Buy and shoplifts a copy of Lord of the Rings. Your argument is “I’m just one person doing it.” So what if thousand or a million people do it? Take a little responsibility for actions. You're advocating the thievery of produce, clothing, books, everything. If we all steal on your philosophy, then how can any of us be expected to earn a living?

Originally posted by byteshertz


The capitalism system is responsible for this mess

edit on 16-11-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

That's your problem right there. Capitalism itself works very well but if ordinary people don't think about what they're doing then it can be horribly corrupted by those who wish to corrupt it for their own purposes.

The group of individuals who originally came up with Communism and Capitalism have been using both ideologies as a means to an end - and that end is revolution. The only way to achieve a revolution with Capitalism is to reduce people to 'Homo Stultum' where they are so dumbed-down that they themselves contribute to the fall of Capitalism - this can be seen in people's attitudes today - where you can't even recognise that downloading is essentially wrong for society, as is the idea that everything should be free.

In 'Red Symphony' there is an interrogation of Khristian Georgievitch Rakovsky (a.k.a Chaim Rakeover), one of the founders of Soviet Bolshevism, intimate of Trotsky's and former Soviet ambassador to Paris, by Gavriil Gavriilovitch Kus'min of the NKVD (Stalin's Secret Police) on 26th January, 1938. In it he admits:

"Communism can triumph as the result of inborn idiocy; since without the presence of immortal idiocy in homo economico there could not appear in him continuous contradictions as proclaimed by Marx. To be able to achieve the transformation of homo sapiens into homo stultum is to possess magical force, capable of bringing man down to the first stage of the zoological ladder, i.e. to the level of the animal. Only if there is homo stultum in the epoch of the apogee of Capitalism could Marx formulate his axiomatic proposition: contradictions plus time equal Communism...

Marx deceives for tactical reasons about the origin of the contradictions in Capitalism, but not about their obvious reality. Marx knew how they were created, how they became more acute and how things went towards general anarchy in Capitalistic production, which came before the triumph of the Communist revolution ... He knew it would happen because he knew those who created the contradictions".

So beware if you think this Mad Hatter's Tea Party we've been given is purely for our own entertainment. There's a reason why we have the internet freely, why computers are so cheap, why we are given the means to download... it's so the homo stultum will be tempted to abuse it, giving TPTB the reason to bring in more and more new laws further restricting our freedom.

If it wasn't for Piracy



The Internet would even of Exist !! Why ! you ask ! Simple ! Very Simple !


Microsoft ! = Seattle Computers Operating System ( DOS )
Windows Existed Copied From Apple Lisa & Macintosh Operating System

Seattle Computer Products
en.wikipedia.org...


Apple ! Copied From Xerox Pal Alto (PARC) when they saw The First Graphical User Interface and the Mouse !, WYSIWYG and the ((((( ETHERNET )))) that Connected Computers Together!!!!!!

PARC (company)
en.wikipedia.org...

Xerox 8010 GUI



Xerox Star
en.wikipedia.org...

Members of the Apple Lisa engineering team saw Star at its introduction at the National Computer Conference (NCC '81) and returned to Cupertino where they converted their desktop manager to an icon-based interface modeled on the Star.[9] Among the developers of the Gypsy editor, Larry Tesler left Xerox to join Apple in 1980 and Charles Simonyi left to join Microsoft in 1981 (whereupon Bill Gates spent $100,000 on a Xerox Star and laser printer),[10] and several other defectors from PARC followed Simonyi to Microsoft in 1983.[11]

The list of products that were inspired or influenced by the user interface of the Star include the Apple Lisa, Apple's Macintosh, GEM from Digital Research (the DR-DOS company), Microsoft Windows, Atari ST, BTRON from TRON Project, Commodore's Amiga, Elixir Desktop, Metaphor Computer Systems, Interleaf, IBM OS/2, OPEN LOOK (co-developed by Xerox), SunView, KDE, Ventura Publisher and NEXTSTEP.

[13] Adobe Systems PostScript was based on InterPress. Ethernet was further refined by 3Com, and has become the standard networking protocol. Some people[who?] feel that Apple, Microsoft, and others plagiarized the GUI and other innovations from the Xerox Star, and believe that Xerox didn't properly protect its intellectual property. The truth is more complicated. Many patent disclosures were in fact submitted for the innovations in the Star; however, at the time the 1975 Xerox Consent Decree, an FTC antitrust action, placed restrictions on what the company was able to patent.

[14] In addition, when the Star disclosures were being prepared, the Xerox patent attorneys were busy with several other new technologies such as laser printing. Finally, patents on software, particularly those relating to user interfaces, were an untested legal area at that time.

Xerox did go to trial to protect the Star user interface. In 1989, after Apple sued Microsoft for copyright infringement of its Macintosh user interface in Windows, Xerox filed a similar lawsuit against Apple; however, it was thrown out because a three year statute of limitations had passed. (Apple eventually lost its lawsuit in 1994, losing all claims to the user interface).[15]

Watch Pirates of Silicon Valley !

Pirates of Silicon Valley trailer




But these People AN IRAQ!!! A Heavy Metal Band ! Would not even Exist With Out All of it !
for Either from Downloading off the Net or Physical Bootlegs Smuggled in the Country of Iraq

Acrassicauda
en.wikipedia.org...

Heavy Metal in Baghdad
en.wikipedia.org...

Bands would of NOT been created or listeners of New Types of Music Styles Would not Buy the Material
if they didn't hear it like some Movies and Music that are not So Popular (Well known)

I have Downloaded off the Net Songs Bands and Movies! that were from the 60s to the 80s !!
That i had no clue that they even existed !
Guess What after seeing them from the Net! I HAVE BOUGHT THEM!!

Who ever had the Rights to these Materials (Ownership) Well they did get some Royalties from ME!
Form Buying the Product ! that was considered Piracy when i first saw it and I Have Bought an actual Commercial Copy of My Own,,, From seeing it or Hearing it Off the Net!!

Metallica at the beginning was against their Music being thrown On the Net
Now some of the group is saying now it Great for other country's to listen to their product From the Net
as Countries would not even know that Metallica existed

REMIXES Would Definitely Would Not exist !
Nor Would Some R&B ,Rap! ! with the Sampling Style in their Songs
Some Bands would not even exist ! From the Remix Scene ! or Rap Scene

in some country's Music Bands were not discovered with Out the NET



Metallica Lars Ulrich

Then!!!!

Metallica napster ad


This last Video Below is the Ones that ATS Needs To See !
listen to what One Band in the video of what they said ( 8 sec Mark on through )

Recently!!!

Lars Ulrich eats his words (Global Metal)


The Band Acrassicauda Would of not Exist ! From a Place Called Iraq With Out Listening to Metallica and others
from Pirated Material !

[Song][HQ] Acrassicauda - Message From Baghdad

Nov 16, 2011 6:03pm
SOPA: Internet Piracy Bill Criticized as Internet Censorship
abcnews.go.com...

Eric Schmidt, executive chairman of Google, said the bills would overdo it — giving copyright holders and government the power to cut off websites unreasonably. They could be shut down, and search engines such as Google, Bing and Yahoo could be stopped from linking to them.

“As written, they would betray more than a decade of US policy and advocacy of Internet freedom,” said a statement on Tumblr, “by establishing a censorship system using the same domain blacklisting technologies pioneered by China and Iran.”

Black Listing Begins ?

are we eventually going down the Road to be come like North Korea in censorship

are we on Our way to be censored Like China and the Middle east ? or Worse ?


So much of land of the Free !

reply to post by byteshertz


Well coming from a musician myself I agree with you. I am guilty of piracy myself you see much of the music i download is given a listen and much of it i see as not worthy of purchase. Or at least the price the record companies are asking for and that is not even counting the store getting it's share of the sale. I talked to Ivan Moody lead singer of FFDP a few years ago after their gig and he asked me and a few other people behind stage if we actually bought the bands album or did we pirate it. I did not know what to say at first so i said i did not remember but i was in fact guilty of this forbidden pleasure. He chuckles and says "you know most of our fans pirated our albums and that's cool with me because we only get a few pennies for each CD you buy anyway" And they probably got more money from me in paying for a ticket at a concert and showing up to see them then wasting it toward some corporate label. And you may know that big record companies ate up the competition like independent labels "with actual creativity and originality" whom are no more sadly or wont get radio time over the last 10 years leading to a lousy music genre with the usual "flavor of the month artist" always being hyped up. You listen to what THEY want you to listen to. So the idea of me giving Lil Wayne or Lady GaGa 2 cents makes me throw up in my mouth. This is why I only buy CD's or vinyl from underground artists and indie labels because they actually get the money.

Lars Ulrich of Metallica pulled this on Napster years ago only to lose some of the bands core fans finding himself looking like a douche. He says now he regrets it.

The thing is myself and other artists play for our love of music and not for the money. I never make jack during gigs i do it because i love to play , So as for myself if someone was downloading my music i guess that is a compliment. I understand you have to make a living but really being a Artist of any kind is not something to realistically expect a regular paycheck from week to week. Not what i would consider a career choice, big record companies invent artists these days. If you are a artist painting dollar signs then you are not an artist that is the way i see it.

These Piracy laws are a joke btw its about control not money, it's a Trojan Horse

Well, I know a lot of people who buy a product first to try it and then buy it.

Edit: Double post

I have been reading through this thread, and see that a few mention Microsoft. I remember when Windows XP first came out, it only took the Chinese coders about two hours to crack the code and release it on the street. I just surfed over to M$, and took a look at the prices for Windows 7. Microsoft is a huge conglomerate corporation, worth a few billion dollars. Does anyone think if M$ would loser the prices of it's software down to where a poor person could but it, that at least some of the piracy would stop?

I run PCLinuxOS on my custom built machine, the new 64 bit version. It is the fastest OS I have ever ran, twice as fast as RAM hogging Windows 7, and, best of all, it's FREE. Easy to install, does everything Windows does and more, boots lightening fast, (11 seconds) and is very secure. I would not run Windows if it were free.

reply to post by autowrench


I have a cracked version of windows 7 Ultimate , not because i was too cheap but my original OS 'vista" a lousy OS i might add was compromised when my hard disk failed. So i could not recover my OS because the product key worn off the bottom of my laptop. So MS was not interested in sending me a new copy without a product key. i was furious, so I considered it that MS owed me a copy anyway so i had to take the illegal route, but MS sucks and I always run Linux anyway because it is superior. I forgot i even had MS still

Oh well i guess if Bill Gates gets wind of my post he might send some assassins idk

reply to post by byteshertz


Intellectual property is a system by which individual property rights are taken away, while capitalism is a system by which property rights are added! Capitalism transfers property from the collective public realm into the individual private realm. Intellectual property transfers property from the individual private realm into the collective corporate realm.

I'd like to flag your thread but I can't because you claim capitalism is responsible for this mess, but very obviously capitalism is the solution, and exactly opposite to what you talk about. You are very gullible to even think capitalism even remotely exists in America today in any form.

I'm sorry but you are wrong by definition. Fascism is the merger of the corporation and the state. Therefore, when the state is giving undue help to a corporation such as through the intellectual property system, then that is fascism.

America will be DESTROYED if people like you cannot realize that its government in bed with big corporations and vice versa through such things as the intellectual property system that is ending us, and that system of fascism is at odds with capitalism. If you attack the wrong idea you are going to make the problem worse, not better. Please understand that you've got to identify the problem if you ever hope for a solution.

And the solution is to respect people's property rights instead of taking them away, which is exactly what the anti-capitalists propose. The intellectual property system is a zero sum game that does not add any individual property rights, but rather transfers them in favor of large corporations.

While individuals can apply for a patent, what they are applying for is to take control over other the property that belongs to other individuals. They are applying for the confiscation of property, not for the protection of property.

reply to post by Wolfenz


Great post and very informative BTW i forgot about Pirates of Silicone Valley, i always meant to see it but always forgot to follow up. I also referenced Lars then i read your post and you got there first lol. Yes funny how these things work out eh?

Originally posted by AlertInMi
If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

You are implying Windows 7 is a good product. Your argument is null.

Anyway, Linux is open source and free, and is a great product. So I don't quite see your point?

Originally posted by AlertInMi
I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....


If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

Hi there, sorry to burst your little bubble but I'm musician and have cd's for sale and also on Itunes and others digital distributors. I really don't care how ppl hear our music, I was the first one to send it to torrent sites.

I don't have anything against downloading a song or a cd. Myself, i do it all the time. If i love the cd or song, I may buy it or go to see the artist at a venue if possible. If i dont like, then it's a delete. I really don't care if someone does it for my stuff. It's just a way to reach new listeners.

You do know that artists make their money with shows and merchandise like t-shirts and stuff? The big a$$ companies make money with cds.

I believe "piracy" is a good way to discover new things that you may not have bought at first.

Peace out.

Originally posted by AlertInMi

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

Everything I publish is for sale, but offered for free on the net...your on the wrong site to state things as facts with no evidence.

I for one am a very avid supporter of free intelectual property. Copying tapes in the 80s was what caused the music industry to thive to where it is now...many bands we have today would never have been heard of I it wernt for people trading what they felt was good music. Metalica, the biggest anti-piracy band, made its fame off this very means and then talks down on those doing the same.

I say, let them make piracy illegal! All they're doing is putting the final nail in the coffin because the moment that happens very few will continue using them as everything will start to become open source.

People download because they don't want to take the chance of wasting their money on crap...tell them they have to pay and they'll stop buying your crap all together. Just as was stated earlier, no one is willing to pay for a 20 song cd that has one good song on it, so by forcing people to, they just simply won't buy it at all...

I will devil's advocate and say this is all over simplified.

Originally posted by byteshertz
Piracy does not remove the original from anyone it simply copies it, therefore no theft has taken place, and no money has been lost unless someone can prove you intended to buy it beforehand.

You're not paying for a physical copy. You're paying for the work gone into whatever it is.

Have you ever photocopied text from a book.

This is covered under fair use and educational purposes; as is a number of other educational uses of media. You can screen a film for educational purposes also, you're just not allowed to distribute a copy to each student by default.

Sure the law stipulates in some instances that you can show X number of people the movie before it is piracy

Where I'm from, it's more about accepting money for a screening, or the area and purpose of the screening. IE you can't do it in a public place for monetary gain.

Further, why do we have the tools to copy all this stuff if there is just about nothing we can copy legally?

People like Sony don't care about the artist. Just like yourself, they want to make and save $$$ where ever they can. Selling storage media is big bucks. They use the same logic as you. 'Oh, it's not our fault pirates use our hardware!'

Why wouldn't Sony be oppurtunistic about this? They also believe 'everyone else does it, so why not us?!'

I bet just about all Schools, Judges, Lawyers, Police all have copywrited photocopied material in their posession right now. Most of the info I was given in school was photocopied by the teacher from a book, and it is the same in most workplaces.

Educational use. Perfectly legal.

So get off your high horse

I can't afford a high horse. It's a catch-22 ... You and others pirate things I work on. So the people selling my products sell LESS of them. So MY wage gets lowered. Eight years ago I was on twice what I am now. I still work 12 - 14 hour days, but I get half as much, and sometimes even less and sometimes tighter deadlines and less resources. Give me back my high horse. You can say that my employers are blaming piracy to score even more money out of me, but oddly enough they're making less money too ... Big stars are still making a killing though because people are more likely to pay for a Will Smith collector's edition DVD box set with limited edition statuette of Angelina Jolie than fork over the money that pays the little people's wages.

My point is in this day and age it is impossible to avoid being a pirate which means we need to change the law.

Copyright law is more complex than made out from my observation.

If we just realised that all knowledge should be freely available and people should be allowed to copy whatever they like then our technological advancement would skyrocket.

Copies of Die Hard films have sky rocketed. Pornography has sky rocketed. Copies of Batman have sky rocketed. Laziness is off the charts. You know what hasn't sky rocketed? Copies of applied physics books, people researching cancer cures, and investigation into a unified theory and model of reality.

Those who produce a product would have competition, but they would have a head start in the production and manufacturer

There is less competition now than there has ever been. Piracy empowers the strong, weakens the struggling, and prevents the destitute from ever hearing the starting pistol. We're in a period of transition and people have to understand that. The laws aren't perfect, and not every company has a delivery method that works ... In fact, really large companies that can afford online marketing systems and instant delivery are making all the money.

The other people, they're struggling to make it unless they're under the wing of those big systems. Which means the best thing that can happen to you these days is you wave and flail your arms around till a big company buys your services.

Regarding people complaining about the prices of Photoshop etc ... it's one of the most pirated programs on the planet. The educational version is multitudes cheaper. Yet how many actually purchase it? Oddly enough ... these same pirates are taking work away from qualified media professionals using their pirated software. So they have less overhead and can under cut honest decent professionals working hard yards.

So it's not just the big corporations, and don't get me wrong ... I'm not 100% against big corporations. What people don't realise is they advance us an awful lot ... Do people honestly think we would be this far on without companies like Microsoft? There is plenty of things that would never have happened if Linux was all there ever was. Regardless of which pair of colored glasses you're wearing Microsoft et al ... fund an awful lot of research, and Linux doesn't have or do everything.

reply to post by byteshertz


Why are you attacking patent law? Is this a continuum of attacking copyright laws? Do you consider your own work [if any] worth nothing?

Here is my take on copyright law. A song, movie or book has no more intrinsic value than any thingamajig that any inventor makes. If it is ok to buy and use a light bulb that is not made by Edison electric, then why is it not ok to copy a movie made by Walt Disney? How come the guy who invented the cell phone doesn't get paid every time one is sold? It is the same thing.

No song, movie, play, book, picture should ever be copyrighted longer than an invention can be patented. The good that comes from patents expiring would be duplicated by an identical term for copyright. Sick of remakes? Why should a studio pay for a new idea when they have a ton they already own the rights to? 17 Years. If you haven't made a profit by then, write something else. Why is this so hard to understand?

$300 window 7 ultimate 64-bit

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by byteshertz

 

You must be feeling guilty to even attempt to rationalize committing a theft of intellectual property. Just like a product you might shoplift in a store it takes work and money to create it. Some may not resort to breaking and entering or shoplifting only because they are fearful of the consequences, but if they do this they are highly likely to go further. Once you decide the world owes you, you cross the line.

I'd bet if I stole something you worked for or created you would scream at the top of your lungs. Can I break into your home and take your stuff? I won't buy it, but hey why not steal it as it's not stealing since I won't buy it. Same thing.

Hi there, I'm pretty sure you are the one that took the photo for your avatar? Or did you STEAL that picture on the net without mentionning the original photographer? Yeah, that's what i thought. You shouldn't be able to get a job since you stole intellectual property.

Peace out.