PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

Originally posted by Phenomium

Originally posted by jeichelberg
reply to post by Phenomium

 

The ultimate justifier...You need a course in ethics and morals...You think the world is one way...and therefore, that gives you justification to behave the same way...You think lying, cheating, and stealing, your way through life is okey dokey, simply because, according to you, everybody else is doing it...

Nope, it's just common payback, some would call it...playing on a level ground, not justification. In case you didn't notice, above I said it was like two demons fighting. When was the last time you met a moral demon? Which story have you ever heard of a moralistic pirate of any kind? It's merely fighting fire with fire. I claimed no morality in this matter whatsoever. We live in an age where there is less than a tenth of morality left anyway and the very fact that YOU are backing the media establishment and the government proves that you are no more moral than I. You leap so quick to question the judgment of pirating, yet you make no mention of the immoralities of the government or the media moguls and how they systematically steal from us with every purchase we make. The government and media run the world, now look at the world ad tell me just how moral they are. I admit pirating, in the sense of morality is wrong, yet if THEY are not going to compensate you for what they steal on a daily basis (immoral), and we do nothing to regain what they have taken from us......then we pretty much just end up as a rug for them to wipe their feet on. We get stolen from until there is nothing left to take because they sure as hell are not helping us replenish our coffers as they empty our pockets. It would seem rational, that if they were to NOT rip us off so much in the government and the media and offered prices that were affordable and not tax us to death and then steal what is left over from our bank accounts, we wouldn't have to pirate in the first place. Yet, they government and media empires simply want to take all from us and never give back. Truth be told, the only media that gets out to the public anyway, it the most Immoral forms of music and movies that could possibly be created. Don't come to me with the whole immoral argument unless you address the other side of the fence as well, just as I did. The Devil himself couldn't come up with and prostitute out to the public such unworthy trash as the media drops on us and makes us pay for our own tickets to Hell.

Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?"

You ARE overly justifying your poor moral decisions. Hopefully someday you will realize you are wrong. Until then, you just sound like you are whining, like a toddler. "But I WANT ice cream, Mommy!"

reply to post by Justaguy1976

Eight hours? This has to be a joke.

I spent over a year on my last movie, from pre-production - through post - then two months on road doing promotion.

That's nice.... I have many long term projects too.

The mystery surrounding the movie was depleted, the ending ruined, and all because 'torrents' sites allow a file to be shared by millions of people like yourself who justify what you do.

Try creating something you love more than life, then watch as it is spreads online against your will, and then sit back, and read boards like this where people such as yourself 'justify' it.

You mean you didn't want people to watch it?

reply to post by PaxVeritas

Not to make an argument like this personal, but I will.

Why is it that almost every "pro piracy" and "Anti Copyright" people I've seen or heard from have NO TALENT, no ability to create, no respect for the process of making a 'work', no drive to be a developer and and overall attitude that works are like seeds and water, and should be THEIRS for the taking?

I'm starting to see it's more of a mindset than an idea. Like a general feeling of entitlement to other people's "Stuff".

You make Noises Dude...

Get over yourself.

reply to post by Hellhound604



Some people benefit from pirating, others don't. It's not black and white.

But don't tell the people that DON'T profit from pirating to 'get in line' and accept their fate and shut their mouths.

Just because in panned out for you doesn't mean others didn't lose out.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
In fact I have a suggestion for all the 'works should be free' folks.

Go MAKE something that takes a year or two, then release it for FREE online. A digital product specifically.

And then release all copyright to it, all distributions rights, all claim of ownership or authorship, and legal ties.

And then tell me if you would do it again.

Get busy.

edit on 17-11-2011 by PaxVeritas because: (no reason given)

If you don't like what you do in life and would not do it for free then you should probably do something else. The digital revolution will continue and maybe we will see a backlash in the collecting on money for the artists to more resonable limits even in the extreme cases. My answer to you is spotify or a similar product. Free for the user if he don't wanna pay but you are payed. The problem is that the industry is lagging behind and don't really wanna get into 21 century.

Is it realistic to expect that someone else should be willing to do what they want to do for FREE?

Nope, but there's that entitlement mentality of yours again.

"Didn't you have so much fun making it that you don't mind giving it to me???"

I've got some things you can come to my house to do for free. Let me know when you are available.

reply to post by PaxVeritas

Sorry to hear of your loss. It's truly heartbreaking from someone who understands. Thank you though as an artist that you gave an honest attempt. I wish you success next time....if there is one.

HEY!

What about my Invention?

No applause there?

Is the only thing worthy of attention sounds and Video?

Is that it?

How DARE you belittle my contribution to humanity....

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by PaxVeritas

 

Not to make an argument like this personal, but I will.

Why is it that almost every "pro piracy" and "Anti Copyright" people I've seen or heard from have NO TALENT, no ability to create, no respect for the process of making a 'work', no drive to be a developer and and overall attitude that works are like seeds and water, and should be THEIRS for the taking?

I'm starting to see it's more of a mindset than an idea. Like a general feeling of entitlement to other people's "Stuff".

You make Noises Dude...

Get over yourself.

Actually, the only one here I see making 'noises' is you. And with that, I'm going back to work.

reply to post by PaxVeritas

Actually, the only one here I see making 'noises' is you.

No, actually I'm not a musician, I'm just an inventor, poet, scholar, philosopher, and dreamer....

And with that, I'm going back to work.

BYE!!!!

I didn't realize how much I would enjoy posting on these boards!!! Yay for ATS!

Regarding the LOT of you feeling that we (directors/ writers/ actors) have too much money, so it's justified.

This is not about MY money, or sallary. It's about the ART making less money because it is being leaked.

Let me give you an example.

A low budget film is roughly 10,000,000 dollars. (that is LOW budget in the big scheme of Hollywood).

There is about 1,000,000 in distribution costs added to that.

There is about another 1,000,000 in foreign deliverables.

12,000,000 now.

For it to go out on screens - there is a normal rule DOUBLE the budget for P & A (that is print's and Ad's. Meaning every time you see a commercial on TV, or a trailer put in front of a movie, or Ads in newspapers.)

32,000,000 is spent - on a movie that cost 10,000,000

So, for the movie to BREAK EVEN 32,000,000 has to be made.

So when you wake up, and read Movie X grossed 20,000,000 opening weekend.

IT IS STILL CONSIDERED IN THE RED.

Now, keep in mind - I don't see ANY of that money.

So let's take a small indie movie, or a film the studio doesn't have as much faith in - they TRIAL them in smaller venues, as a 'test'. Let's see how this movie plays in 10 screens.

Now - you guys get a hold of a print, put it online, and share it with your friends.

This isn't about ME the PERSON making millions of dollars, its about THE PIECE OF ART making the millions of dollars.

But you wake up, and read in the paper, oh look IMMORTALS or PARANORMAL ACTIVITY made millions and millions of dollars, so I can steal it. But those movies costs MILLIONS, and MILLIONS, and MILLIONS to make.

Stop trying to justify something until you have been on the other side.

"I hate Being a Musician"

I have to bust my [snip] for several hours at a recording studio... and all I get is hundreds of thousands of dollars...

Some days, it's like it's not even worth it.

I'd much rather be working 60 hours a week on cures for diseases, and making in a whole YEAR what a musician makes in a few days....

I'd rather be designing, and testing auto-mobiles all day, every day, for years, at a set hourly wage... Than stringing together a few words, setting it to a beat, and banking Hundreds of thousands of dollars...



I swear, if I don't get even MORE insanely wealthy, I might just give up being a musician....

Those dudes in the Military sure have it made, don't they?

reply to post by Justaguy1976


What movie was it?

(Second Line)

so I can steal it.

I keep telling you... it's not theft... it's copying.

Unless you are saying that you no longer HAVE the film that you worked on....?

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


You are more bitter about NOT being an artist, than I am for being one with pirated work being downloaded for free.

...here I was thinking I had it bad...

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

2% lol. From my point of view I hope you love your work and would do it even if you weren't paid. If you don't then you should probably look for another job. Piracy is probably a thing you are were angry about and you are making a nice friendly view of your situation. But the producers getting 90% is really increadable for me. Does he spend 45 times more time working on the movie than you do?

You--LOL.

The producer puts forth the MONEY to produce it in its final format. Not chump change. If it fails, who is left with nothing? The producers. The artist is free to produce it him/herself, but probably can't afford to. The producer, therefore, fills the need.

With big risk comes big payoff.

Also, the artist is free to negotiate a better rate than 2%. It may not happen, but the negotiation process IS there.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is in the real world.

Why is the "real world" like that? And it seem that China don't care. You have one view of what is right and I have another. The question is who have the moral highground? I say "service to all by all" is the way religons teach and "service by all to one/few/ego" is the path that should not be walked but is walked frequently by the systems we have made. Namaste

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


CALM DOWN CHAP...JUST A BIT OF INTERNET BANTER...
I SEE MY STANCE HAS TURNED ME INTO SOMEWHAT OF A BACKWARD TROLL....

SINCERELY...I WISH YOU AND YOUR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH WELL

ENJOY YOUR FREE STUFF....

IM OFF TO RALPHS TO HELP MY SELF TO SOME DONUTS....X

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?"

You ARE overly justifying your poor moral decisions. Hopefully someday you will realize you are wrong. Until then, you just sound like you are whining, like a toddler. "But I WANT ice cream, Mommy!"

One wrong and one right doesn't make a right either,...what's your point?

Clever "one-liners" might sound like wisdom, but they are really wis-DUM, because they don't apply to reality.
As for the rest of your statement, it wreaks of someone who doesn't have an intelligent retort. It is simply a child-like attempt to hit below the belt and it only shows ignorance. I hope you don't intellectually represent everyone from Georgia. If so, it's a testament as to why the rest of the world questions the intelligencia of America as a whole. Good job representing.

reply to post by Justaguy1976

You are more bitter about NOT being an artist, than I am for being one with pirated work being downloaded for free.

I'm not a musician dude, and I'm not bitter... That story up there "I hate being a musician" was an allegory...

...here I was thinking I had it bad...

I know, right?

It's like your cure for cancer has been destroyed!

reply to post by luke moody


Dude, Seriously... with the caps lock... is that really nessecary?

Is your keyboard broken?

CALM DOWN CHAP...

I think you are severely underestimating just how Chill I really am, actually.

JUST A BIT OF INTERNET BANTER...

Obviously.

I SEE MY STANCE HAS TURNED ME INTO SOMEWHAT OF A BACKWARD TROLL....

Wha?

SINCERELY...I WISH YOU AND YOUR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH WELL

Same to you man!

ENJOY YOUR FREE STUFF....

I listen to music on youtube... dude. So

You know.... Free to listen to, has ads on the side... That kind of thing...

IM OFF TO RALPHS TO HELP MY SELF TO SOME DONUTS....X

Yummy!

Oh, I so totally agree. How can I not? With this much reason and rationality how can I not?
How could anyone not agree?

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
In fact I have a suggestion for all the 'works should be free' folks.

Go MAKE something that takes a year or two, then release it for FREE online. A digital product specifically.

And then release all copyright to it, all distributions rights, all claim of ownership or authorship, and legal ties.

And then tell me if you would do it again.

Get busy.

edit on 17-11-2011 by PaxVeritas because: (no reason given)

If you don't like what you do in life and would not do it for free then you should probably do something else. The digital revolution will continue and maybe we will see a backlash in the collecting on money for the artists to more resonable limits even in the extreme cases. My answer to you is spotify or a similar product. Free for the user if he don't wanna pay but you are payed. The problem is that the industry is lagging behind and don't really wanna get into 21 century.

Is it realistic to expect that someone else should be willing to do what they want to do for FREE?

Nope, but there's that entitlement mentality of yours again.

"Didn't you have so much fun making it that you don't mind giving it to me???"

I've got some things you can come to my house to do for free. Let me know when you are available.

It's all money or ego for you aint it? Have fun with that. If you have the idee that you are entitled to more than the people around you then im glad I don't ever will meet you. Namaste

Hi guys,

I believe that there are arguments on both sides of the piracy issue.

It is tantamount to taking someone else's work for free. The quality of the invention that is copyrightable is also an issue.... If there isn't significant difficulty in creating the material - how can it be right to copyright that? For instance: I play three keys on a keyboard - and having written such a musical - I have now a copyright on that combination. I believe that that would be ridiculous. The rules, I am of the impression, help prevent this from happening.

Whether the company is small or big, copying can be a big hit to their pockets. Take the IBM PC. IBM put millions of dollars in researching how to connect chips to an Intel chip to make a PC work. The compatible manufacturers simply took a few IBM machines, randomly put in chips that copy the output, and hey presto, without a hundredth of the research cost, they've got the same machine. IBM can no longer produce the originals, since the copies are effectively faster and cheaper to make.

There were similarly problems with drug production for various illnesses. If the original manufacturer has to put in millions in research - but to copy it takes only a fraction of the cost - without patents the original manufacturers hesitate to come up with anything.

I'm personally what people call a "lead user". I've had a lot of prominent ideas that I've come up with that have been unpaid for by industry - in spite of the fact that they've made a mint off of these ideas. It's not like a lot of stuff you use isn't also based on stolen ideas. Take the story of Titanic, or the minority report, or the ipod, or a french door pull out drawer refrigerator, or front load washing machines, or CDs, or fibre optic communications etc... The industrialists are just like most ordinary people in this matter - they steal because they can get away with it.

If you stole a car, it is much harder to get away with that sort of thing. But if you steal ideas, it is much easier.

Additionally, if you stole copyrighted movies, people talk about getting away with this by changing some of the bits so that the entire file looks significantly different from the original - only you've changed the format in such a way that it is still reproducible.

Copyright issues are fought by industries all the time: Cable companies take signals that come from the air and amplify them and redistribute the signal in exchange for money from end users all the time - they might even replace the commercials with their own. Over the air channels argue that this infringes their copyright and demand payment with cases in court for these things.

Additionally, if a movie is played over the air, it becomes permanently available by the cable companies' actions as non-copyright material with the "free stuff" line of reasoning. They don't necessarily have to pay a fee to the movie producers for re-airing the movie. How many times are they allowed to do this or re-do this?

On the other hand, had copyrights lasted forever, all technology could have been copy written and we could technically have been stuck in the caveman days.

This is why there are rules surrounding copyrights and how to obtain them, and there are time limits to copyrights as well. Making a copyright is, in and of itself a very expensive proposition.

One of the things a lot of software companies try to do, is to ensure that their software gets put out in lots of people's hands - even pirated versions. The reason is that a lot of people actually choose to pay for something, if and when they start making money off of the use of the software. Someone mentioned Photoshop in the threads - one of my buddies job at Adobe is to distribute dirt cheap official copies of the software to friends who might find the software useful - though he is not allowed to sell it to businesses in this fashion.

If you do use software and make good money off of pirated versions, a big corporation might consider coming after you - since there is money to be made by doing so. A lot of them learn that it is not worth the headache chasing after people who don't have lots of money. At least I've heard stories to that effect.

Copyright infringement lawsuits have also likely sent a lot of would be manufacturers to the briny deep.

On the other hand easy copying has led to unique ways of dealing with those kinds of problems. If, for instance, you have a youtube music video that has mass appeal - there are a few talented people who have avoided the music industry's marketing surcharge and made it big on itunes.

Others who have cashed in: companies that rent movies online - you pay a small fee per movie and have it streamed to your home, when you want to watch it. This works because it is easy to download - but the software is unique and doesn't allow the user to keep the movie. It saves users a lot of hassles, and it allows people to search movies online by genre etc..

Because of copyright issues people have collaborated to create Linux - I use it.