PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

Piracy does not remove the original from anyone it simply copies it, therefore no theft has taken place, and no money has been lost unless someone can prove you intended to buy it beforehand.

For anyone who still thinks Piracy should be illegal and pat's themself on the back for not partaking, ask yourself this:
- Have you had friends over to watch a movie you purchased?
- Have you ever video taped or taken photo's of something... containing artwork, copyrighted material? You cant take a video of most homes without doing this, make sure you dont accidently record the TV in the background of your home movie either.
- Have you ever photocopied text from a book. Copied lyrics, sung or performed a song written by another?
- Have you ever recorded a TV show, recorded a song on the radio?

If you have answered yes to any one of the questions YOU ARE A PIRATE in the eyes of the Law.
Sure the law stipulates in some instances that you can show X number of people the movie before it is piracy, but they are just drawing magical lines in the sand to suit their needs and the needs of the Corporations who are now using their money to influence the laws.

Further, why do we have the tools to copy all this stuff if there is just about nothing we can copy legally?
Sony, who is known for being anti-piracy and pursuing pirates sells a lot of drives used for the copying various forms of media! They profit from the piracy just as much as torrent sites etc.

I bet just about all Schools, Judges, Lawyers, Police all have copywrited photocopied material in their posession right now. Most of the info I was given in school was photocopied by the teacher from a book, and it is the same in most workplaces.

TECHNICALLY YOU ARE A PIRATE AND I CAN GUARANTEE ALL OF US ARE, INCLUDING THE JUDGES MAKING RULINGS AGAINST PIRACY.

So get off your high horse and realise that everyone is a pirate because just about everything in our world created by man is intellectual property, including anything made by nature that man modifies genetically. You are saying these people have a right to own the world you live in because they have modified it's original design. The physical world is no different to the virtual world it is just atoms instead of 1's and 0's

The capitalism system is responsible for this mess, we have allowed people to patent knowledge itself for profit. This is holding back the human race as a whole, technology is slowed because the left hand is not allowed to know what the right is doing.

Just because everybody is breaking the law does not mean it is right, but when everybody can no longer avoid breaking the law - it means it should not be illegal. Years back they cracked down on people copying songs of the radio, now that people download them they don't even care this is also piracy - because if it goes to court the Jury would find the person not guilty because everyone does it and there is not much left to create that doesnt infringe on someone elses idea in some way.

My point is in this day and age it is impossible to avoid being a pirate which means we need to change the law.
If we just realised that all knowledge should be freely available and people should be allowed to copy whatever they like then our technological advancement would skyrocket. Those who produce a product would have competition, but they would have a head start in the production and manufacturer - and would be forced to keep thinking ahead and advancing themselves to maintain their lead - intead of stalling advancement for generations because of an old technology.

You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Yarr!

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I've pirated quite a bit of software and music. If I like something I buy it, but I always want to try it out first.

There are a lot of people like me too. We will support what we like, but how can we know for sure without a test drive?

I know there are studies showing the industry loses X amount of dollars yearly due to piracy, but I don't believe those numbers. I'm sure using the same data someone could come to the conclusion that the industry MAKES money off of piracy when people find something they love and want to support - something they may have never even seen had it not been a pirated copy.

hmmm... how do I put this...

I have a friend who is a musician, and he's achieved a fair amount of success (not mtv success, but I hear they don't play music anymore anyways) and while he certainly likes to be paid for what he does, he is proud of hs work and it is work, he doesn't mind if people don't always pay for a CD, or pay to get into a show. If someone hears his music and likes it, he doesn't care how they heard it.

If I had achieved the success in the music industry he has I feel I would think the same way.

should I add another gripe about commercial DVD's? esp. the ones containing kiddy-movies..... A kid's attention span is not very long, 10, 15 minutes max, but the FBI-warnings and other advertisements on DVD's take as long, and you cannot forward past it, so by the time the movie, that your kiddy has nagged about for the last 2 weeks starts, the kid has lost all interest in it......

One of the reasons why some people rip DVD's, but, shhhhttt, we cannot talk about that!!!!!

Another reason is that so many artists have one good song, and instead of selling that on-line, they would rather have you fork out a lot of money, for a CD full of crap.....

Personally I think that the movie-houses and music producers just want to stay behind in the dark ages, and not move along with technology, and by doing that, they are just shooting themselves in the foot....

I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....


If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

Originally posted by Resinveins
You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Haha yeah, I should be more specific but I don't want people thinking this stops on the internet, I am attacking all patent law, because it doesnt stop in the virtual world. Thanks for reading

I download TV shows. Because they show them for free anyways on television, i like having no commercials.
People already make millions off movies
People already make millions off software.
I don't download music often, and if i do, i usually buy the album if i like it, depending on the artist of course.

The way i see it, i can barely afford groceries, and there is stuff that im gunna want to use and can't afford. When it comes to music though, a lot of bands/artists have lost sight of what it really means to be such, music is not about money, it is about the music.

reply to post by GringoViejo


Actually .. that's pretty common.

I've dealt with a lot of bands.. even the national acts usually don't give a fig about music piracy.

That's usually the record company's crusade.. not the artist's.


There are some though who do object .. Metallica for example.. but most really don't care and mirror your friends attitude for the most part.

reply to post by byteshertz


The idea that created art should be free is silly, in any form art takes effort, in the example of say a movie, it takes thousands of people sometimes to make, they should be compensated fairly.

Music is the same, the artist should be paid.

So should video game designers and Authors.

They earn their living off their work and deserve some compensation.

Now what NEEDS to happen, is Everyone with a Copyright needs to get on the ball with Digital distribution and make it easy to PAY for their goods online and virtual.

Its one thing ITUNES proved, people will pay for music, you just have to make it cheap and easy to get to, the problem is Companies sticking to Archaic Business practices in a digital age.


Im gonna admit to something here, Yes I have pirated, but Ill give you an example, I Pre-ordered Skyrim on the PC, I really love elder scrolls game, I Found it online though downloaded it early and played it, I STILL BOUGHT it as got the Special edition with all the cool # with it.

I downloaded it because it was faster than going to pick it up at the store and I could play it instantly before it was even out technically, BUT I STILL Bought the product I preordered because of the added value that came with it.

THats what companies need to do is provide more value with their products, its seems only the Young unemployed OWS Generation has a problem with paying for goods and services rendered.

Originally posted by AlertInMi
I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....

Really? Possibly but I dont think so

If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

Overall yes I agree there would be more copyied junk products - but people would still pay extra as they do now for the quality of a product. If the product was too 'junky' and was not selling they would improve the quality to catch up to those selling. This is no different to all the junk products that are currently out there made of cheaper materials.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

*cough*
Linux
*cough*
Look at Ubuntu very user friendly, imagine if everyone was using it how advanced it would be.

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Bands can still make most of their money from performances, as they do now.

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

You forgot to add "in a system of capitilism and patents" on the end

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

Nothing is stopping them inventing for profit, they just don't profit unless they can turn an idea in to something that can be sold. No one is forcing them to document how it was made, but if another can reproduce it they should be allowed.

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

Fact's have sources
2nd

Originally posted by AlertInMi
I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....


If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

Ok, you use Windows 7 as an example why not to make free software.... Have you ever heard of Free Software, like Linux, OpenOffice, and thousands of other software that are free, and just as good (in some cases, a lot better) than the commercial software....

Let me describe totally imaginary scenario - imagine yourself in X years. You work in some software company for 10 hours a day, helping to release some cool program. Then after the release profits are pretty low because of the legal digital Blackbeards and you are laid off, with family/kids to feed and shelter.
Then read your OP again.
Remember,every teenage generation of "I deserve things for free even though i do not contribute anything" eventually becomes generation of "I am working to provide for family". Way of the world.

The more laws that are created, the more criminals are born. Laws create crime.
They will eventually criminalize all normal human behavior and activity, making us all criminals just waiting to be caught and kidnapped by men in costumes for revenue generation.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Let me describe totally imaginary scenario - imagine yourself in X years. You work in some software company for 10 hours a day, helping to release some cool program. Then after the release profits are pretty low because of the legal digital Blackbeards and you are laid off, with family/kids to feed and shelter.
Then read your OP again.
Remember,every teenage generation of "I deserve things for free even though i do not contribute anything" eventually becomes generation of "I am working to provide for family". Way of the world.

Well because I work for the company I got paid already, and they already legally own my work under the current system and they can do with it as they please anyway, without me profiting from it any further in any way.

If it was my company and I didnt want it to be copied I would put copy protection security in the software and which would constantly need to bge updated with newer technology in the cat and mouse game between those that find ways to copy and those that try to stop it.
The probelm is people think they should be able to think or create one thing in their life and reap the rewards forever - I say yes they should but only if the idea is so good noone else can better it or find ways to replicate it.

reply to post by byteshertz


I'd bet you're pretty young, with thoughts like these. I'm not trying to be offensive about it, because we were all young once, but you seem to be stuck in some immature thinking.

I'd also bet you have never produced anything for sale.

I've had this conversation with my 13 year old son (who also, like you, doesn't see the problem with downloading whatever he can find.) These authors, musicians, artists, etc. who have developed these works didn't do it just for the fun of it. They devoted time and money to producing these works. They deserve to be paid when you obtain a copy of them. Their works are considered to be intellectual property.

There are plenty of legitimate ways to access things you want. Listen to the radio, watch tv. Join Netflix and stream their content. But you shouldn't support stealing from these various producers of content. That's immature, because just because you want it, you think you should have it.

As for the teachers copying things...did you know that it is NOT considered illegal (or piracy) to copy a certain amount of material for educational purposes?

Well, since few of us are movie stars or professional music performers....I wonder if I might throw out a different example on this which falls just as squarely within the thread topic for relevance.

Let's say I spend months or more writing the ultimate widget utility for PC's. For the example, lets say it's something I've toyed with in the back of my mind for years. Just the ultimate in ideas and a need to be filled. I'm so proud of my new creation and the fact it might just pay my bills and help me make a Christmas for my family. So, I copyright my new piece of software and go through the process of testing it, setting up net marketing and everything necessary to properly bring it to market and declare my new contribution to the world. I'm all set right?

Then... much to my dismay...I sell a few copies and it stops. Maybe I sell a few hundred at a $5 or $10 a copy. However, the boom I was starting to see build kinda flattens out and dies out. What did I do wrong?? Bugs? Well, no.... I check my support forums and email..nothing there. No complaints I haven't handled. I've done everything right! Wait...let me check something..... Oh, now I find my widget is on Pirate Bay, every Torrent service known to man and googling my widget title no longer has my site in the top 10 but somewhere far down below the PIRATE links to steal it.


Now.... From your side of the argument, you'd just be one little person among many stealing my family's Christmas from them. $5 theft in your case. Together though...it does more than bust my dreams into pieces...it robs me of my ability to earn a living the right way. All this because Piracy is not just tolerated, but coming to be accepted and even DEMANDED as some kind of warped "right".

Sorry if my take is about polar opposite to the premise of the thread, in saying Piracy may really be Okay...and NO I haven't paid for every single thing I have, either. However, I won't pretend the movie, song or widget I download is anything but what it is. Stolen Property... We need to at least be honest about it and not play semantics to make it sound perfectly innocent. Someone out there isn't getting the revenue they are depending on to avoid becoming an OWS camp resident.

Originally posted by byteshertz

Originally posted by Resinveins
You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Haha yeah, I should be more specific but I don't want people thinking this stops on the internet, I am attacking all patent law, because it doesnt stop in the virtual world. Thanks for reading

You're against ALL patents? Really? That makes no sense. Why in the world would any company ever invest time and money into developing a superior product if ANYONE could just replicate it?

Ending all patent protection would be a great start if your goal was stifling innovation.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by byteshertz

Originally posted by Resinveins
You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Haha yeah, I should be more specific but I don't want people thinking this stops on the internet, I am attacking all patent law, because it doesnt stop in the virtual world. Thanks for reading

You're against ALL patents? Really? That makes no sense. Why in the world would any company ever invest time and money into developing a superior product if ANYONE could just replicate it?

Ending all patent protection would be a great start if your goal was stifling innovation.

Because as I stated in my OP they have the advantage of a headstart over everyone else.
They make their money while others try to work out how to copy it, by the time the others catch up they should have a newer improoved version and so on - this way technology and product quality and features advance, instead of ending up with basic products that have been round for years still being the same price or more expensive years on

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, since few of us are movie stars or professional music performers....I wonder if I might throw out a different example on this which falls just as squarely within the thread topic for relevance.

Let's say I spend months or more writing the ultimate widget utility for PC's. For the example, lets say it's something I've toyed with in the back of my mind for years. Just the ultimate in ideas and a need to be filled. I'm so proud of my new creation and the fact it might just pay my bills and help me make a Christmas for my family. So, I copyright my new piece of software and go through the process of testing it, setting up net marketing and everything necessary to properly bring it to market and declare my new contribution to the world. I'm all set right?

Then... much to my dismay...I sell a few copies and it stops. Maybe I sell a few hundred at a $5 or $10 a copy. However, the boom I was starting to see build kinda flattens out and dies out. What did I do wrong?? Bugs? Well, no.... I check my support forums and email..nothing there. No complaints I haven't handled. I've done everything right! Wait...let me check something..... Oh, now I find my widget is on Pirate Bay, every Torrent service known to man and googling my widget title no longer has my site in the top 10 but somewhere far down below the PIRATE links to steal it.


Now.... From your side of the argument, you'd just be one little person among many stealing my family's Christmas from them. $5 theft in your case. Together though...it does more than bust my dreams into pieces...it robs me of my ability to earn a living the right way. All this because Piracy is not just tolerated, but coming to be accepted and even DEMANDED as some kind of warped "right".

Sorry if my take is about polar opposite to the premise of the thread, in saying Piracy may really be Okay...and NO I haven't paid for every single thing I have, either. However, I won't pretend the movie, song or widget I download is anything but what it is. Stolen Property... We need to at least be honest about it and not play semantics to make it sound perfectly innocent. Someone out there isn't getting the revenue they are depending on to avoid becoming an OWS camp resident.

That is a fantastic example. I hope the OP reads it and thinks about what you've written.