Compelling and Convincing Evidence that Life was Created! What Say You?

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posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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People arguing on evolutionism and creationism are kinda funny.

Because, let's say evolution happened.
That means that this universe was always there and always will. Time doesn't really exist or is mostly a loop.

Now let's say creationism happened.
That means the creator was always there and always will. Or as he been created too since many of you say nothing exists without being created...

So to sum this up, we have no idea what is going on and seriously, let's ask ourselves questions that the answer will get us somewhere.

Why are scientists wasting their time to prove creationism or evolutionism?
A total waste of intelligent minds!!




posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Vandettas
The title is misleading.

"Compelling and Convincing Evidence that Life was Created! What Say You"

I don't know how many times someone has to stress this FACT, but this video proves nothing at all.

This is not proof : Everything is so complex that someone must have created it...
Its not even a theory. It can't even be tested. Its an opinion. Its a belief.
The bible has been written by MAN hundreds of times.

People on this planet that have not been living for even 80 years claim they know everything just because they watched a couple youtube videos. Life is complex because in 60 years us humans went from a computer the size of a house, to a microchip smaller than your thumb.

Now multiply that 60 years 20,000 times over again and tell me thats not enough time for something as complex as DNA to form. Oh wait you will...There is no convincing you people.....


Everything is so complex that someone must have created it...

So you mean a simple premitive flint rock arrowhead requires a creator but a DNA does not require one?

Can you explain why?



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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Quick question:

If the OP video states that the probability of life evolving is 1 in 10 to the 340 millionth power, what is the probability of god existing and creating us? Surely it is less probable.

I think the evolutionary theory, however improbable the OP makes it sound, is our MOST probable explanation. Even if the statistics say its "operationally improbable". Right?



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2


for example in the vid - it showed that the information contained in the DNA is a program just like a computer program only much more sophisticated.


If science has said it is, then perhaps it is. That doesn't mean that a magical man in the sky programmed it though, it just means life is a lot more complex than we have previously believed and we need to investigate that further.

The very fact we can manipulate that same DNA and mutate, change or clone things tells me the code isn't very complex anyways, certainly nothing I would expect an all-powerful creator to make - why would he make something that humans could figure out how to alter hmm? I thought his creations were supposed to be perfect (which brings up the subject of why is there a heaven and a hell but that's off topic and I won't go there).



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by SavedOne
 


I've never heard a Christian satisfactorily explain the Dinosaurs though. I had one even tell me the Dinos never existed, it's just a figment of our imagination and the skeletons are merely mineral deposits that look startlingly like bones.

I'm sure not all Christians believe this, but yet I've never heard a satisfactory explanation from them either.


Of course they were created - we have ample evidence of their existence.

Question is why did they all of a sudden selectively disappear from the face of the earth?



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Ryanssuperman
improbable


Improbable does not mean impossible - something some people in this thread seem to be forgetting.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

Of course they were created - we have ample evidence of their existence.


How does this fit with the bible timeline then? Why has the bible never mentioned them, considering they were around for the majority of Earth's history compared to us?


Question is why did they all of a sudden selectively disappear from the face of the earth?


Easy - a giant rock slammed into Earth and wiped them out. Those that survived were in a position to do so because of their size, hiding spots or genetic make-up. Funny though, I don't seem to remember mention of such a cataclysmic event that changed the course of Earth's history in the bible anywhere - they must have forgotten that part.
edit on 16/11/2011 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
Here is a simple question:

What percentage of knowledge has science (to date) accumulated to explain all there is to know?

It surely can't be 100%, let alone even 1%. It's more like .000000001%. So how can you vehemently deny claims like the OP's when you don't even know 100%? Let alone 1% of all there is to know?

You can't prove/disprove things which you don't even know about yet.
edit on 11/16/2011 by CastleMadeOfSand because: (no reason given)


Well, at least we know how humans evolved (and that the Genesis account is 100% wrong)...but of course science doesn't have all the answers. But at least they're backing up their claims with objective evidence. Religion on the other hand is totally confusing "guessing" with "knowledge" and is often demonstrably wrong.


Well we DON'T know how humans evolved. Where is the missing link? So you DON'T know?

Again, you cannot disprove what you do not know. Who said anything about the scientific method? No doubt science backs up claims with evidence. That's common sense.

Don't lump all Christians into one group. That's like me saying science is no longer valid because 100's of scientists over the years have produced fraudulent results, manufactured evidence or outright hoaxed people, therefore, all science is deemed null and void. Make sense huh?


There is no such thing as a missing link, especially since DNA 100% confirms we evolved from species that are now extinct. It's not something up for debate unless you live in fairyland


The theory hasn't been debunked in over 150 years, and for crying out loud, we're actively using it in modern medicine to predict FUTURE outcomes accurately...something that also wouldn't be possible if the theory were wrong.

Do yourself a favor and at least read the basic Wiki article about human evolution, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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Recently I've come to more or less accept that a probable scenario to either "pure" creationism or evolution is that time and space is a lot more permeable than they appear, and that energy and matter and living things and forms can be tossed around existence willy-nilly. This means that little bits of life are constantly being sent forward and backward in time, creating paradoxical loops such that life has existed and will always exist and evolve in the universe without the need for any Creator.

But people are programmed to view things as having beginnings and endings, and with effect always following cause. It helps make sense of existence day-to-day, but like so many things, how we view the universe is not necessarily the way it really is.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Vandettas
The title is misleading.

"Compelling and Convincing Evidence that Life was Created! What Say You"

I don't know how many times someone has to stress this FACT, but this video proves nothing at all.

This is not proof : Everything is so complex that someone must have created it...
Its not even a theory. It can't even be tested. Its an opinion. Its a belief.
The bible has been written by MAN hundreds of times.

People on this planet that have not been living for even 80 years claim they know everything just because they watched a couple youtube videos. Life is complex because in 60 years us humans went from a computer the size of a house, to a microchip smaller than your thumb.

Now multiply that 60 years 20,000 times over again and tell me thats not enough time for something as complex as DNA to form. Oh wait you will...There is no convincing you people.....


Everything is so complex that someone must have created it...

So you mean a simple premitive flint rock arrowhead requires a creator but a DNA does not require one?

Can you explain why?


One thing is living matter, the other artificial...but keep on ignoring that


You're using the typical argument from ignorance and god of the gaps again and again and again and again...ridiculous



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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There's dishonesty, and then there's dishonesty.

"You cannot have a computer program with out a programmer".

Ok, sure. I'll agree with that. Now YOU need to show me any objective evidence that suggests the earth or universe is a program. You can't have a design without a designer or a house without a builder, but what about a tree in nature? Who designed that, and where is the evidence of design? That old argument is pretty much useless, just like the mathematical probability claimed in the video, which is a complete guess. I'd love to see where that information came from and what formulas they used to determine that. Almost everything in that video has already been debunked, especially that programmer argument. You can't just blindly assume something is a program, simply because you are in awe of the world and can't comprehend the complex details of everything. That isn't logical or proof of anything.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Why do people keep bringing up the laws of probability, when the only thing that counts are the laws of chemistry.

Some people feel the need to find a sense of purpose or place. One mechanism to that end is religion, which is fine. However, trying to combine religion with science is utterly pointless - they address different issues. It always confuses me when certain individuals try to find their own brand of god in the working of the flagellum for example. It's not down to religion to answer that. If I were so inclined to believe, I'd be looking up fo the big picture, not down into the microscopic.

Fortuantely, the majority of religious people get that, and are quite happy to let science and religion coexist. Is it really so difficult for the others to get that too?



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Because, let's say evolution happened.
That means that this universe was always there and always will. Time doesn't really exist or is mostly a loop.


Why does evolution indicate this? Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Why do people keep saying this? Evolution is about the diversity of life on earth and has absolutely nothing to do with time or when/if the universe began.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Barcs

Because, let's say evolution happened.
That means that this universe was always there and always will. Time doesn't really exist or is mostly a loop.


Why does evolution indicate this? Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Why do people keep saying this? Evolution is about the diversity of life on earth and has absolutely nothing to do with time or when/if the universe began.


They keep on saying it because while evolution doesn't state there is no creator, it DOES disprove the genesis account and similar religious creationist accounts



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by edmc^2


for example in the vid - it showed that the information contained in the DNA is a program just like a computer program only much more sophisticated.


If science has said it is, then perhaps it is. That doesn't mean that a magical man in the sky programmed it though, it just means life is a lot more complex than we have previously believed and we need to investigate that further.

The very fact we can manipulate that same DNA and mutate, change or clone things tells me the code isn't very complex anyways, certainly nothing I would expect an all-powerful creator to make - why would he make something that humans could figure out how to alter hmm? I thought his creations were supposed to be perfect (which brings up the subject of why is there a heaven and a hell but that's off topic and I won't go there).



So if it's a program as science say it is then how did this program got in there in the first place without this you call "magical man" - the programmer?

As for the DNA code being not "very complex anyways," - bold claim on your part there sir.

Unfortunately not according to the brightest scientists who've been working on deciphering it for a long time now.

Perhaps you should explain if its not "very complex anyways" what causes a cell to become an eye, a nose, a hand, etc. What's the secret mechanism on how and why the RNA, DNA, Enzymes worked together in such an organized way that it baffles even the brightest of the brightest!

Please tell me which came first the RNA or the DNA - which one created first?

And exactly how does the body communicate its need to the cell, and how does it trigger part of the DNA molecule to “unzip” at just the right place and later to go back together?

What prevents the rest of the DNA helix from “unzipping”?

Also, how did not only the right chemicals, but also all the right mechanisms, such as the ribosomes, come to be in the cell for the making of a new strand of RNA?

Or how about this: How does the ribosome “read” the RNA and exactly how are just the right chemicals provided at the right places to reproduce the DNA’s pattern and to make the proper protein?

If you don't like that one how about this:

How is the information encoded on DNA transferred to cell enzymes that then control the growth of new cells?

Why even biologist Dr. Howard H. Pattee of Stanford University, is still looking for the answers.

In fact he says that the simple models (such as "Watson and Crick devised") cannot explain the speed and reliability of information transfer. He admitted that a much deeper study of matter at the submolecular level is yet necessary.

And finally, we encounter the biggest question of all:

How did such complex substances, and life itself, get there to begin with? For these questions scientists have no answer, only theories.

But perhaps you've unlock one of the Greatest Mysteries of all!

So by all means please enlighten us with your superior intellect on molecular biology - I'd like to know if it's not "very complex anyways".


May I also suggest to watch the vid and find out yourself how complex the DNA is?

tc



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


And once again you try to answer the questions science can't answer (yet) with "magic" (aka god of the gaps). Even after all those threads where people told you what an argument from ignorance that is.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Atzil321
I could only manage 8 minutes of the video sorry. All I see is christian fundamentalists trying to use science to confirm their belief that god created the universe ect. The basic argument they use is 'everything is so amazing and complex it has to have been designed by a creator'... Their shameless cherry picking of scientific knowledge to justify their world view falls flat on its face once you realize the core belief of their religion is that the universe itself is only 4000 years old.

Yes everything we observe and have learned about the universe through science is amazing, but scientific method has taught us the universe we observe is at least 14.5 billion years old not 4000 years, thats a hell of a long time for things to evolve into all the wonder we see around us today 'independent of any creator'.

These days you can dress any old argument up to look modern and exciting 'especially if your audience is gullible and poorly educated' thats all I see here.


Agreed! If the universe was only 4000 years old we would have no choice but to believe in creationism...however, it is MUCH MUCH older than that, so evolution is the only thing that makes sense.

Edit: I wonder what would happen if they found out we were "created" by aliens. Would they still hold on to their religion or would the aliens be the "new Gods"? Or would God have created the aliens too?
edit on 16-11-2011 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

So if it's a program as science say it is


I did not say that. I was just assuming you were correct for a second and playing out that thought. Please link me to somewhere reputable that specifically says that DNA has been identified as programming by scientists.

Don't forget, I said REPUTABLE sources.


then how did this program got in there in the first place without this you call "magical man" - the programmer?


Evolution. Just because YOU don't understand it, doesn't mean that nobody else does.


As for the DNA code being not "very complex anyways," - bold claim on your part there sir.


As is your claim that an all powerful magical man sat on a computer and typed up our human genetic code.


May I also suggest to watch the vid and find out yourself how complex the DNA is?


I watched a video once that had some pretty concrete evidence that aliens built the pyramids. Turns out it was just a lot of misconstrued facts mixed in with some smart sounding nonsense - much like I am sure your video will turn out to be.



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Atzil321
I could only manage 8 minutes of the video sorry. All I see is christian fundamentalists trying to use science to confirm their belief that god created the universe ect. The basic argument they use is 'everything is so amazing and complex it has to have been designed by a creator'... Their shameless cherry picking of scientific knowledge to justify their world view falls flat on its face once you realize the core belief of their religion is that the universe itself is only 4000 years old.

Yes everything we observe and have learned about the universe through science is amazing, but scientific method has taught us the universe we observe is at least 14.5 billion years old not 4000 years, thats a hell of a long time for things to evolve into all the wonder we see around us today 'independent of any creator'.

These days you can dress any old argument up to look modern and exciting 'especially if your audience is gullible and poorly educated' thats all I see here.


Agreed! If the universe was only 4000 years old we would have no choice but to believe in creationism...however, it is MUCH MUCH older than that, so evolution is the only thing that makes sense.

Edit: I wonder what would happen if they found out we were "created" by aliens. Would they still hold on to their religion or would the aliens be the "new Gods"? Or would God have created the aliens too?
edit on 16-11-2011 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)


They'd just move the goal post as always. A few centuries ago they claimed comets are a sign of god, or that god causes plagues...all because they didn't understand the science behind it and filled that gap with magic (god). The "god did it" track record is abysmal



posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Anyone and everyone should sinply believe and have faith in whatever or whoever they choose. Anyone getting caught up in details such as creationism or evolution is really missing the big picture.

Further, anyone who feels that someone that believes in evolution is somehow not of faith is also missing the big picture.

None of it matters. It's only what is in your heart that matters. God isn't checking the ATS website to see how your meaningless debate is going. And by God, I truely mean whatever God you have chosen in your faith.





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