It's Time To Unite Behind OWS!!

reply to post by seabag


I hate to tell you this, but the two movements are very similar. They are targeted at different sectors of the problem, but it is all the same problem. Corporations, money interests control our government. Plain and simple the OWS is targeting the looters of our government and the TPM is targeting the government for bowing to their interests before our own interests.

reply to post by charles1952


If I misunderstood your intent, I apologize as well. It is hard to impart intonation and intent on these posts.

Yes, some of the occurrences are true, and the claims made by the OP and the video are brash over-generalizations.

The logic is flawed and is not applied evenly by those who oppose OWS. It is nothing more than a political pot-shot at OWS that is based on either hate or envy. I don't know which is applicable, but the inconsistency is obvious.

OWS responsible for controlling the people in its site?

No. That is a matter of personal responsibility.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Dear sheepslayer247,

I agree completely that they are over-generalizations. My opinion is that anti-OWS sentiment is driven more by hate and fear than envy.

But I am concerned about your comment on personal responsibility. If I interpret it correctly, you're saying that an organiztion has no responsibility for its members. That scares me a little. How do we say that the military are killers, or Congress is corrupt, or the Tea Party is racist, or that any group is anything? (How can OWS say that Wall Street is corrupt, for that matter.)

If we can't tell whether a group is good or bad by its members, do we judge by its results? (That may not be a bad idea.) But if we do that, isn't the Tea Party better because it has better results (so far)? I don't know how we get out of this swamp.

With respect,
Charles1952

I supported OWS at first. Then I researched because I always try to remember to vet who I support before I give them my time.The more I looked into OWS the more I found Leftists at the leadership. General assemblies, TV spots, the pundits that came out for them, the famous people, philosophers, political people. I could spend hours doing a write up on it with links and such but honestly don't have that time.

Over 90% "Left" leaning.

Don't get me wrong, I think the majority of OWS people are NOT Socialist or Communist types. As for myself I've seen enough proof. Everyone says "SOROS SOROS SOROS", but it's more. I think Soros' name is overused.

I'll show OWS support in the sense that if I was there I would help hand out water and stuff to help them with tear gas. I would defend them if the cops beat and assaulted them for no reason. As Americans expressing their views, they have my full backing.

But their higher ranks have been infiltrated by people with an agenda that is not "the 99%", not even 50%.

I agree go after Wall Street Bankers,The Fed. But not may talk about Government officials that ALLOW this. Plus the fact that almost EVERY video I've seen of them is like some annoying Hipster, college dude, let me get my revolution on, where's my student loan money, "A job is a right", "Higher Education should be free", "Stop Global Warming now", blah blah blah, "kill the rich". If they just stuck to the Bankers and Politicians....I would actually go down, but not after what I'm seeing.

I just can't roll with those cats when all is said and done.

reply to post by charles1952


Well unfortunately.. these OWS cheap shots.. are pretty frequent.. and guess who the usual suspects are?

Any wonder I don't go out of my way to defend them?

When I have to waste my time on .. nonsense such as this thread?

Regardless of their thoughts on the matter.. Tea party members have done themselves no favors here on ATS lately.

If your asking me to respect childishness... I'm sorry... that's not going to happen. Perhaps they should examine their own motives.. and choose how they want to be viewed.


But if they continue in the future as they have lately.. no doubt I'll be repeating the same things again and again.

And to answer your question about the videos posted above here... simple.. i haven't looked at them. So sourced or not.. I've no clue. As they didn't seem to be directed at me.

Nor do I feel it my job to ask for sourcing for something concerning the tea party. I'll leave that to you guys.

While I often jump in to defend other causes I have no allegiance to... mostly Ron Paul threads, simply because similar misrepresentations go on in those threads.

But I do not extend that courtesy to Tea Party. I've developed a healthy distaste for most of those members that frequent this site.

Pretty sure that bad taste is going to linger for quite a while as well.

reply to post by PaxVeritas


I like your name how do you translate it, "True Peace," "Peace in Truth?"

Anyway, I think you've pointed out a problem I have as well. OWS has terrible press. Some of it is from the system, but they knew that was going to happen. It's like the Repulican debates, they know they won't be treated fairly by the moderators, but it's play or go home.

But some of it they've caused themselves. There hasn't been a real attempt (that I've seen) to connect with average Americans (whatever they are). The supporting groups are horrendous. Unions, Ok, but marching with the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, getting endorsements from David Duke and the Government of Iran?

Can they really find no alternative (or mainstream) medium that will cover their story fairly? Can't OWS put together a two minute blurb for MSNBC, or CBS every day?

I get frustrated.

reply to post by charles1952

I would say that OWS and other Occupy movements are not an organised entity.

Anyone can walk up, pitch a tent and do whatever they choose to do. They can talk about corporate control or how they want to turn America into a Nazi socialist state.

Each individual has their own beliefs and intent, making them responsible for their own actions at any Occupy function. A movement that has no leadership will have some morons within their ranks that "spoil the batch".

If they did have leadership of any kind it would only give the naysayers a person to attack and discredit the movement. So we are damned if we do, damned if we don't.

We need to concentrate on the overall message that the current system is corrupt, which even TP members can agree, and that change must occur before we fall into ashes like the Roman Empire. We can even disagree on what changes need to take place, but the process of that discussion will bare more fruit than continuing the status quo.

ETA: Some groups will attach themselves to any movement. Unions and such.... Like the KKK supports OWS, but hey also support the TP. That doesn't mean that OWS supports them. See what I am getting at?

Dear sheepslayer247,

That's a hard choice for OWS, find a leader who can be criticized, or allow "strange" people to "spoil the batch." I think I would have gone another way, but I'm nowhere sure I'm right.

My impression that the batch is getting spoiled so quickly that even friendly mayors are yanking their support. Public opinion polls don't show OWS gaining support. If there was a leader, couldn't they do a pr dance around any of the shortcomings that person might have. Look at all the presidential candidates (or not, it's not good for your eyes). All of them have serious flaws, but one will be our next president. Maybe a congressman could lend a campaign staffer, or Soros could lend an executive, or something.

As far as getting the message out that the system is corrupt, that's done and over, you can move on to something else now. A merger with the Tea Party perhaps? It would be a hard marriage to set up, and OWS would have to give a lot, but that would be a powerful message. As you say, it is time to discuss the cure.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952



Communist Party, Nazi Party, (????), Socialists, Mike Moore (Who said "capitalism needs to go", Chris Hedges (though Hedges is smart self labelled Socialist), Cornell West (Member of Socialist Party), Lawrence Odonnell, Moveon.org, Van Jones and his crew, "MinistryOfTruth" (now famed Daily Kos writer). I could go on.

The only sensible one that regularly visits I've seen is Dylan Ratigan.

The mistake OWS makes and needs to fix is INCLUSION. Me, a 37 year old businessman, who supports Libertarian views and near Anarcho-Capitalism or Micarchism and hates the "STATE"...how comfortable would I feel that my opinions would be listened to?

Not that much.

They don't seem educated on almost every video clip I've seen. I thought it was the media's well known divisive tactics and "gotcha" journalism, but it's not. Too many alternative media clips show the same thing. Trust me, I gave them the benefit that media was running biased news, it just wasn't so.

It's not a populist movement even if they say it is. The top ranks are filled with people that would NEVER agree on any outcome I would have in mind.

And no joke I really really really do NOT like college age Hispter kids or emotional "Hey man we're all one with Mother Earth, we are the people maaaaaaan, join us"....types. Creeps me the F out.

reply to post by charles1952



I didn't answer your question. "PAX" can mean peace but I chose it for FRIENDSHIP, one of it's other meanings.

Pax Veritas . Friendship with Truth or Friend of Truth.

reply to post by charles1952

You are correct. It's a catch 22 scenario if there ever was one!

I don't think any leader of OWS could do the PR dance around the issues. There is a well-established mechanism in place against OWS that would tear them to shreds no matter what.

Also, while OWS and the TP should realize they stand on common ground, there could never be a merger. OWS is either going to succeed and force change or they will fall violently by the hands of the police state. The TP gladly walked into the arms of the Republican party, never looking back.

I think we will see all of this come to fruition soon. OWS will probably fall to government tyranny and police action, relinquishing the only true movement of change of our new era, and we will fall into the world of Orwell's vision where the state rules us all.

I supported the TP, but it fell like a ton of bricks into the hands of the establishment. OWS may fall, but it will be because they fought until the end.

reply to post by Resinveins


Dear Resinveins,

I'm not sure, but I think I can understand your feelings. My sincerest apologies for anything I might have done to add to them, or to your discomfort.

OWS has a lot of energy and potential. My opinion (which is all it is) is that it has to clean up its image before they can fire up the rest of the country. To use a crude analogy, they've come to the party with the right message hanging around their neck, but the guests think it's a skunk and run from it.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Nothing to do with you.. you've been nothing but polite.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Resinveins

 

Let's help them out here a bit.

This particular video was uploaded by youtube user mnmajorityorg, which is the YT account of mnmajority.org.

If you follow the link in the comments of this video, it says this:

All incidents cited in this video are documented at www.owsexposed.com....

This link is not an actual internet site that has the documented proof as stated. It is a link that downloads a quicktime video in which you are asked to "sign the Obama petition".

So contrary to mnmajorityorg's actual statement, there is not documented proof.

If you go to mnmajority.org's website, you learn that they are an anti-non Christian, anti-gay and anti- non Republican group. Their CEO, Dan Mcgrath has even been cited on occasion of advocating breaking the law and ruling of judges for "political" purposes.

McGrath is advising his allies to wear the buttons to the polls. If challenged by an election judge, the voter will then have to make a decision, McGrath said: Take off the button and vote, or vote with it on -- but be aware that you could be eventually charged with a petty misdemeanor.

So the source of the OP's video is a partisan TP hack that hates gays' non-Christians and such. Pretty sad if you ask me.

WOW!! This is rich!!

So detective let me set the stage here....

Your little buddy Resinveins is in trouble so you run to his rescue - admirable. You hurriedly search for info to do what he failed to do, which is disprove the validity of the video I posted.

Here's where it gets good...

You throw down this gotcha post proving nothing more than the video was made by some right-wingers who are anti-OWS! And that somehow PROVES that everything depicted in the video is a lie? Really?? Baaahahahah!

That's what you came up with? That’s a shocking revelation!! Who'd have thought?? I expected maybe Michael Moore or some other OWS sympathizer was behind it??

WOW! Well, I guess I stand corrected, Fellas. Great work! OWS really hasn't done ANY of the things seen in the video because….let's face it....if a right wing group made the video it has absolutely no credibility, right?

You two are a great team. The real Dynamic Duo!!

That was an EPIC FAIL!