Military training and it's effect on humans

Originally posted by Hootsmanwheresmaheid
That's fine by me my friend, and i do feel sorry for you! If didn't i wouldn't say it.
Brainwashed still, you need to get educated!

OJT is education. How many countries have you been to? And there is a great deal of education in the military, constantly, with classes every month, usually. Some of your comments sort of came off as bombastic hokum to me, to be honest. I am not a proponent of floccinaucinihilipipification, in any form.

reply to post by ILikeStars


Im telling the truth, plain and simple. Sometimes it hurts i know but it has to be said. Look! this comment was made many years ago and it still stands true today........

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." Henry Kissinger

The best kept window displays on the U.K highstreet are always the army recruitment office and betting shops... Go figure.

reply to post by ILikeStars


What price does someone have to pay, for that education?

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Yes, everyone has equal potential. Why is it that some choose to be military men while others slob around on the couch? At least the service men are contributing to society, the other does little to contribute. Yes, we all have equal potential but its what we do with that potential that matters.

The fact is, there are countries around the planet that would eviscerate America if we did not have a military presence. If we did not have cops, criminals would eviscerate the innocent with little regard. If we did not have correctional officers prisoners would do as they wish. I would rather live in a world where people with authority feel authoritative rather than a world with zero authority.

Do you enjoy the feeling of having to fight life or death for your family on a daily basis? If it was not for the militant authority that exists today then you would be fighting for survival on a daily basis.

Are we not now? I honestly dont see the difference. If you dont conform to the society thats been built up around these law authorities you either end up in a cage, dead or sitting on a corner homeless. Gone are the days of being able to work for yourself. There is not one place on this planet that you could go out, build yourself a home by cutting the tree yourself, and live an honest life. Too many laws, restrictions and regulations. You cant even grow your own food anymore without the Feds busting down the door.

The only thing thats different than the story you tell is that now the thug has a uniform on. People simply cant let other people live in peace.

Edit just to add: No everybody does not have the same potential. Ive met some stupid people in my life. No amount of education or motivation can fix stupid. Im sorry.

reply to post by Raivan31


There is nothing necessarily wrong with martial training. The most important factor in whether the training is good or bad is the principles that are being taught. A curriculum that incorporates unbiased concepts of Honor, Justice, and Service will make all the difference in how a person will turn out after the training is completed. If these concepts are distorted during the training process then indeed people will turn out as you described more likely than not. I don't know what else to say on the matter because what I pointed out is vital during training to create an Honorable Warrior.

I certainly don't want to speak negatively about people that have undergone military training. Not all trained military act the way you describe. A good portion of that behavior comes from the government indoctrination which is unhealthy. I see a lack of reciprocity in areas such as Loyalty and Honor --- the individual gives; later, when the individual requires assistance from the government it is not forthcoming. I guess you could start there if you want to try and change something.

You civilians who've never served can only comment on service men and women from a point of ignorance. But we service men and women can easliy comment on civilians. We've been both. You haven't.

Originally posted by steveknows
You civilians who've never served can only comment on service men and women from a point of ignorance. But we service men and women can easliy comment on civilians. We've been both. You haven't.

There is honor in choosing not to fight a war you dont agree with.

See the movie "The Ground Truth"
A documentary of soldiers, spoken by soldiers and their families.

One thing that stuck in my mind, no pun intended. Is that during and after WWII it was discovered that many soldiers, had trouble killing, or even firing their weapons. So a new training a technique was developed.
Boot camps were redesigned to break soldiers down enough to allow more access to the subconscious, the more primal areas of the brain. To really dig deep into the human psyche. Very hard to undo.

I remember one soldier going to the VA for psychiatric help. He had seen civilians murdered in a botched raid.
IT bothered him. The Shrink's response? " I cannot help you, you are a conscientious objector."

It's done, the training...But sometimes it's hard to be undone. It's not the fault of your friends.

Originally posted by e11888

Originally posted by steveknows
You civilians who've never served can only comment on service men and women from a point of ignorance. But we service men and women can easliy comment on civilians. We've been both. You haven't.

There is honor in choosing not to fight a war you dont agree with.

Who said anything about fighting a war? I believe the thread said that service changes people and from what I've seen there's people who've never been in the defence force telling those who have what those service people think and what drives them. And they're doing it from a point of ignorance.

There doesn't need to be a war for people to join the defence force. Wanting to defend the country you love is also a peace time trait. That's where you'll find honour as well.

Direct reply to OP, I am skimming to save time and to share my knowledge as a service member,

Initially civilians will annoy a new service member, their lag of discipline and unorganized movement, colorful cloths etc.

Over time they get back in touch with civilians especially if you are married to one.

I would've loved to keep in touch with my civilian friends but in the US you invariably move on active duty, in the national guard or reserves you don't and are essentially a soldier only in the weekend (weekend warrior as we call them).

As for feeling better or elite, they may feel like that for a while but they will get over it if they are mature, if they are young....well at that age they may become so indoctrined that you will barely recognize them.

All in all, it's not so much military training but the attitude of your friends.

reply to post by Raivan31


I work on an Australian army base as a civi. I know excactly where your coming from, but first i must say not all service men and women are like this, i have become friends with quite a few and these guys out of uniform are just the same as my ordinary friends.
On the other hand i find the majority do have this "better than civi" attitude. The funny thing is they have no authority over me, so i have learned how to play this to my advantage when dealing with them.

After all, they are serving us (the civilian people).
I find when dealing with them "one on one" they are ok, but when they ae in groups of more than one, they become "penises" kind of like a group of bullies at school.

At the same time i do respect these guys and what they do, but i'm against war in general.

Members of the military upon completion of basic do think their better than their civilian counterparts initially and it's sort of due to the recruits being slightly brainwashed but you have to think most recruits are just kids themselves and are easily moulded! Once they've been in a few years that attitude soon disappears and they realise they're just the same as everybody else and as a result of their military training 95% of them become better people for it. I served for 8 years in the British military and since leaving I'm completely against all these illegal wars that are happening and I'm alot more enlightened now with what's really going on in the world despite living in this illusion of democracy! Whether somebody's served in the military or not some people are just born c***s plain and simple!

reply to post by Raivan31


If your in love with a serviceman /women , then I would seriously suggest ending your relationship , your only prolonging your heartache even further.
One day you might receive news they were KIA , how would you feel then , your only putting your own life on hold waiting until they leave or die or are injured.
It harsh to consider it , but seriously think about you in the long run.

I have no respect for any service men women , in the military today , as they are just brainwashed drones being used to fight endless wars. I dont respect people who are paid my hard earned money to go overseas and kill others for defending their country from foreign aggression and invasion to steal their resources.

I do however respect those who fought and died in world war 2 , as my country would have been invaded if it were not for them. Also I would not have liked to have been born into a facist state.

Either way I suggest you consider ending your relationship with your partner , your only going to suffer !

reply to post by EyesWideShut


please do let us know who is coming to take away your freedom of speach ?
which foreign nation is coming to take that right away , where are the invading armies at the gates ready to steal away your freedoms and rights ?

Exactly , nowhere, you have more chance of your own goverment stealing your freedom of speach and your rights than an invading force.

The propaganda has worked wonders on you hasnt it !

Originally posted by dadfortruth1
reply to post by Raivan31

 

I work on an Australian army base as a civi. I know excactly where your coming from, but first i must say not all service men and women are like this, i have become friends with quite a few and these guys out of uniform are just the same as my ordinary friends.
On the other hand i find the majority do have this "better than civi" attitude. The funny thing is they have no authority over me, so i have learned how to play this to my advantage when dealing with them.

After all, they are serving us (the civilian people).
I find when dealing with them "one on one" they are ok, but when they ae in groups of more than one, they become "penises" kind of like a group of bullies at school.

At the same time i do respect these guys and what they do, but i'm against war in general.

No they are not serving you. They are guarding you. Appreciate the difference.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Isnt it the fact that you cant relate to your friends when you come home , is that you have killed people for money and for no particular reason other than because you were ordered to do so , for some illegal war perpetuated by a corrupt government and your friends instead have lived and worked in society and havent killed people for money !

yeh thats most likely the reason you cant relate, they cant say , "hey remember when I shot that guy from 300 yards and watched his head explode , that was awesome ! "
Or "I unloaded a full clip on those two dudes on the mortar as I breached the compound , I totally wasted them !"

yeh because your normal friends who havent killed people cant enjoy those moments with you , as you also try to block them out of your brain!

reply to post by steveknows

No they are not serving you. They are guarding you. Appreciate the difference.

well in large they are serving Australia and the Australian people in the defence force, so yes they are
"serving me" by "defending me".
but out of all the service men and women i have ask, i have never heard one say they joind to "gaurd the country"

reply to post by BIGPoJo

They are in athletic shape while their civy friends are in a pear shape. Better indeed.

I personally don't care what kind of shape other people are in. I'll be friends with anyone.

This thread is 85% un-patriotic and full of civilians giving their opinion on something they have never experienced. The OP sounds like he is just venting cause of something that happened to him. Please dont comment on something you have never experienced. Everyone here is saying their disciplined, trained in military tactics, athletic, and have military traits but unless you have signed the dotted line and been through actual combat or live combat training than you have no place to talk. The human body and mind is capable of going through much more than 99% of the world understands and military members are the 1% that understand this capability. Example: Most people would never be able to stay up for 5 days straight, ruck over 40 miles, eat 1 MRE per day, and be hit by every natural element available. 99% of the world would quit but military members have the training, dedication, and initiative to strive when others fall. Carry on.