Military training and it's effect on humans

Originally posted by Equidae
I am not saying this is right (the Patriot Act, Dick Cheney, and the Alberto Gonzales sycophants are sickening), but it isn't unprecedented. Nor is it an irreparable transgression.

edit on 2/1/12 by Equidae because: (no reason given)

People feel safe to identify with some hero and drink some beers and feel enlightened. And pretend like these wars are not happening. Or write books like The Last Deployment "Two gay guys having a conversation in a restaurant in Boston over pizza and star-shaped lights." I am worn out with the whole business of Christianity, I still keep with the best traditions of the apostles and the prophets of most major faiths. And with Abraham Lincoln because he was a unifier of the country.

This is what the British East India company did to us in the revolutionary war (tried to control us) and our Patriot forces had to come and stop it. This is all a very conscious policy by the oligarchy to divide and conquer us. The South (in the civil war) was also used by this same group of London bankers. One super government TARP, with a new currency most likely (to enslave us), not of the good ole days of the Confederacy. Time for patriots to come together with the Ironworks and make the Pine Tree shilling and a new Peace of Westphalia.

This is a good video. Cotton Mather and John Winthrop about the founding of the United States.
Doesn't get into the nonsense of Mason conspiracy, just plain to the bone facts. And this explains the American Civil War and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the ramp up to the building War against Iran. Who is the real enemy?

WATCH and Learn
The Two Massachusetts

reply to post by Raivan31


As a veteran of the Army (I left the service back in 1996) I can say for me, this was not the case. In fact, I CLUNG to all my old friends and my family for support. Sure I made new friends but I really missed my life back home. I questioned EVERYTHING and back then that seemed to be a prevailing attitude, even from people that out ranked me.

If my platoon leader told us we had to go down to the motor pool and shovel all the snow from around our connex and then do a complete inventory (out in the freezing cold temps of around -3 degrees) we all asked WHY. Being in a chemical company, we had blivets, pumps, and TONS of vehicle nets to lay out for inspections. Not to mention all the net stakes, hoses, scrub brushes, buckets and the OVM tool boxes also had to be inventoried; this even included gas cans.

I always loved when they wanted us to repaint our hummer bumpers with CARC paint (which can cause cancer!) in the dead of winter. It was a pain in the a$$ that's for sure. We were unable to wear rubber gloves because our hands would freeze so we had to wear our winter gloves. CARC paint didnt' wash off of those gloves and if you got any on them then you would be forced to purchase a new pair; they were NOT cheap.

In retrospect, I'm glad I questioned every order.

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
This is a good video. Cotton Mather and John Winthrop about the founding of the United States.
Doesn't get into the nonsense of Mason conspiracy, just plain to the bone facts. And this explains the American Civil War and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the ramp up to the building War against Iran. Who is the real enemy?

WATCH and Learn
The Two Massachusetts

The entire destabilization of the Middle East is largely the result of western meddling. Iran finally deposed the Shah, and democratically elected a new leader who was by all accounts reform minded. He did what any good leader does, and shopped around between the Western and Soviet spheres of influence. He had some slightly socialist leanings that freaked out many westerners.

So the CIA is sent in, browbeats the Shah's son to retake the country, and pretty much singlehandedly forced a coup upon Iran. The son was pretty similar to the father, so the abuses of the populace continued until it boiled over and allowed the Islamic fundamentalists to assume control. This frightened other countries with different ethnic groups, Islamic factions, and members of the secular socialist Baathist/Pan-Arab movement. One of the reasons the Soviets invaded Afghanistan was to hopefully counterbalance the pro-Western Iranian influence. 40 or so years later here we are !

Click here for more information.

reply to post by MarkScheppy


Again you have no clue. The show I was referring you to is nothing like you described but because you refuse to open your eyes and look for yourself at what these guys go through on a daily basis you will probably never understand. As for the rest of your paranoia of a world domination yada yada whatever you want to call it. I just did not have time for it. Honestly I am surprised this thread is still going. I assume you are not from the United States therefore I do not expect you to understand my way of life and I do not really care about yours. You seem to be very afraid of something and although some of what you say has a partial truth to it you have been sucked into the conspiracy theories that keep people from living their lives.

There are those who will serve their country and there are those who will not it has always been that way. Sacrifice is not meant to be easy, take that as you want. I feel sorry for you I really do. I am proud of what I've done for my country, for my friends, and those I have trained. I know I have made a difference I know people are alive because I was there or because of the training I gave them. There are those that I will never see again and I wonder if there was something I could have done differently sometimes, that is the burden of a soldier and it takes a while to realize that.

You probably have no idea what I am talking about and that's fine. The people I served with were of the highest caliber. It was an honor serving with them and they will be my brothers till the end. I know what the American soldier is capable of and what you describe is complete BS therefore I have no fear of the things you described. When the soldiers return home they will be glad to be home and the United States will be the same country they left. I do not know who this person that is you are supposedly talking to that claims to be a Marine but I highly doubt either this person is honest or you are on this matter. Furthermore us Yanks as you said will take care of it ourselves. If you arn't a Yank then worry about your own damn country.

Just so you know we don't call each other Yanks.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by MarkScheppy

 

Again you have no clue. The show I was referring you to is nothing like you described but because you refuse to open your eyes and look for yourself at what these guys go through on a daily basis you will probably never understand. As for the rest of your paranoia of a world domination yada yada whatever you want to call it. I just did not have time for it. Honestly I am surprised this thread is still going. I assume you are not from the United States therefore I do not expect you to understand my way of life and I do not really care about yours. You seem to be very afraid of something and although some of what you say has a partial truth to it you have been sucked into the conspiracy theories that keep people from living their lives.

There are those who will serve their country and there are those who will not it has always been that way. Sacrifice is not meant to be easy, take that as you want. I feel sorry for you I really do. I am proud of what I've done for my country, for my friends, and those I have trained. I know I have made a difference I know people are alive because I was there or because of the training I gave them. There are those that I will never see again and I wonder if there was something I could have done differently sometimes, that is the burden of a soldier and it takes a while to realize that.

You probably have no idea what I am talking about and that's fine. The people I served with were of the highest caliber. It was an honor serving with them and they will be my brothers till the end. I know what the American soldier is capable of and what you describe is complete BS therefore I have no fear of the things you described. When the soldiers return home they will be glad to be home and the United States will be the same country they left. I do not know who this person that is you are supposedly talking to that claims to be a Marine but I highly doubt either this person is honest or you are on this matter. Furthermore us Yanks as you said will take care of it ourselves. If you arn't a Yank then worry about your own damn country.

Just so you know we don't call each other Yanks.

edit on 5-1-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

There's only so much you can do. Some people blind themselves to anything that tries to disprove their pet theories or mindset.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Furthermore us Yanks as you said will take care of it ourselves. If you arn't a Yank then worry about your own damn country.

Just so you know we don't call each other Yanks.

I am from America though, Proud to be a yank! From Texas and I wasn't officially led on to what I was (a "yank?")well... Went to Canada and learned that they think all of us blokes from the U.S. of A ya're are wicked yanks. So I am a yank ya'll, with not an ounce iota of chocolate or military training.

If a england Limey come to my door in yank-land be rest assured I will lay his head on the ground Hell on earth with a rifle butt. The term gets old when that is all they can come down on you, it's a compliment to be a Yankee, (as long as you don't get called a wanker.) Merry Old England financed the Confederacy cuz they did not like Union boys. I am proud of being American and a yank, I just wish we would get out of the foreign wars. Soccer is soccer, ain't "football."

Originally posted by Equidae

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
This is a good video. Cotton Mather and John Winthrop about the founding of the United States.
Doesn't get into the nonsense of Mason conspiracy, just plain to the bone facts. And this explains the American Civil War and the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the ramp up to the building War against Iran. Who is the real enemy?

WATCH and Learn
The Two Massachusetts

The entire destabilization of the Middle East is largely the result of western meddling. Iran finally deposed the Shah, and democratically elected a new leader who was by all accounts reform minded. He did what any good leader does, and shopped around between the Western and Soviet spheres of influence. He had some slightly socialist leanings that freaked out many westerners.

So the CIA is sent in, browbeats the Shah's son to retake the country, and pretty much singlehandedly forced a coup upon Iran. The son was pretty similar to the father, so the abuses of the populace continued until it boiled over and allowed the Islamic fundamentalists to assume control. This frightened other countries with different ethnic groups, Islamic factions, and members of the secular socialist Baathist/Pan-Arab movement. One of the reasons the Soviets invaded Afghanistan was to hopefully counterbalance the pro-Western Iranian influence. 40 or so years later here we are

!

The Military is not helping in Haiti, after two years ago the earthquake is claiming thousands of lives there. Cholera and degraded living conditions (you're going to Med school) has killed thousands since last March. But media CNN is talking instead about how Afghanistan is still needing another billion dollars for infrastructure, umm. Ok? What happens there, you build a school and then the school gets blown up, so keep building them? Makes sense (Not). The Oligarch doesn't like human beings living better than apes. They wants you to say, that we are doing wars for Humanitarian reasons, just as you can see bombs are going off in Baghdad the second after the troops leave. Sykes-Picot (perhaps help me find a video on that one). It is like more Modernity was back in days of Merlin than today.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
There are those who will serve their country and there are those who will not it has always been that way. Sacrifice is not meant to be easy, take that as you want. I feel sorry for you I really do. I am proud of what I've done for my country, for my friends, and those I have trained. I know I have made a difference I know people are alive because I was there or because of the training I gave them. There are those that I will never see again and I wonder if there was something I could have done differently sometimes, that is the burden of a soldier and it takes a while to realize that.

You probably have no idea what I am talking about and that's fine. The people I served with were of the highest caliber. It was an honor serving with them and they will be my brothers till the end. I know what the American soldier is capable of and what you describe is complete BS therefore I have no fear of the things you described. When the soldiers return home they will be glad to be home and the United States will be the same country they left. I do not know who this person that is you are supposedly talking to that claims to be a Marine but I highly doubt either this person is honest or you are on this matter. Furthermore us Yanks as you said will take care of it ourselves. If you arn't a Yank then worry about your own damn country.

You are X- generation, like myself but I don't go and believe in a cause that involves this mess of a government you see. Constantly slashing jobs and forcing people to enlist for economic reasons. That is why I say the Iraq occupation (or war) Bush's crusade. It is a crusade and that is not "propaganda" as someone asserted in here, really study what the Crusades were. And you are pronouncing sacrifice for Phobos ("Fear") and Deimos ("Terror") like the people back then were, and propaganda was what turned farmers into sword wielding fanatics (same principle as now).

There are some fights drawn up now (for people who know) in Science we are about to lose not only our speaking and creative freedoms but in the United States our scientific freedoms. Nuclear fusion is one (oh yeah you are a greeny boy). Well China is going to take the lead and then War powers are going to threaten china because we are the blind waiting orders. Could an average grunt, tell the difference between the French metric system and the standard system? Many I know could not and would get ridiculed for asking, even if it meant to save lives.

...You're basing every service members mind set on some of the "few" #ty friends you made?

Give me a break dude.

To an extent I do think I'm better. Only because I know I choose to do something meaningful, while all my friends were back home still drinking and smoking weed. They could do SO MUCH MORE with themselves. They don't know how capable they are and it pisses me off.

The Marines taught me discipline, it taught me respect, taught me how to look after myself, and taught me what it's like to function as part of a team to get a job done efficiently.

Your whole entire post is stereotypical rhetoric. No, I'm not a "machine," I have feelings. I'm not a "robot," I get tired and hungry. I'm not "heartless" I'm desensitized which is a good thing in this field of work.

I still talk to the people I've known since 2nd grade. I still love and care about my family and talk to them every chance I get. I love my girlfriend and hearing from her is one of the best things in the world. I still talk to my high school buddies about stupid # we used to do together. Just because we chose separate paths doesn't make me any less human, it just gives me a greater sense of importance. It's not something you can understand unless you choose that path. But for a while I chose the path that my friends did, and as a witness I will tell you THIS is better than some mediocre job at McDonald's.

I'm sorry to say this but this thread is bull# and I'm shocked at the number of people who gave you stars for that.

Anyone who left you and looks at you as less of a person because of their job, never really gave a # about you in the first place. It's tough to hear but it couldn't be more truthful.

For the most part, I'm the same person I was when I joined, minus the negative aspects. I learned to be accountable for my actions and learned that things I do don't only affect me. I'm less selfish, more prideful, more well groomed, and more thankful for everyone in my life.

But then again, I guess that makes me a machine, right?

reply to post by Equidae


thanks I know what you're talking about, it's like talking to a brick wall. The more I talk to him the less I think he's from the United States. He says he is from Texas yet uses words like limey, bloke, and yank. I was stationed in Texas and I've never met anyone that talk like that. I have family in Texas and I know they do not talk that way. The thinking is just someone trying to push his own agenda and spread disinformation. I have heard people say they don't like that damn Yankees coming down in their towns for a southerner or Texan to talk that way is just preposterous. Like the Marine that just posted on here I have to agree with him service made me a better person.

I had joined back in 94 I served my first two tours in peacetime then I went into the National Guard. The military was a lot different back then but after 9/11 everything changed and I reenlisted back into active duty and took the skills from all my time in the service and trained other soldiers in preparation for what we all knew was coming. The people I served with were like family. I am sure you know what I am talking about. So many things have changed since I first joined the military till the time I got out. A lot of things have changed since then even from what I can tell as far as equipment uniforms probably situational awareness. The soldiers though I would still say are the finest in the world. We were not machines then and these new soldiers are definitely not machines now.

I just find it disgraceful how people that have no clue talk down or bad about them. I really hope this guy that I think is a fake isn't from this country. I believe most Americans know how good our soldiers are. I would still be in it I had a choice. To be honest I had the offer it was equivalent to a desk job to me. I would never be back in the field again. I just took that as sighn it was time to find something else to do.

Originally posted by Equidae
Islamic factions, and members of the secular socialist Baathist/Pan-Arab movement. One of the reasons the Soviets invaded Afghanistan was to hopefully counterbalance the pro-Western Iranian influence. 40 or so years later here we are

!

You and your comrades should do some talking and professional opinions on 'US deploys troops in Israel for Iran war' Warning disclaimer: The World is Ending. (including us Civvy's)

Then lower form of government would be tyranny which is similar to Germany and Stalin's Soviets. Obama is cutting military spending and forces as war talk with Iran heats up. Does that make sense? You military people are in the Order of the Carabao you have your own understanding of an experience I commend you all. Charlie Wilson's war tells about that Russian vietnam in Afghanistan and our noble government stepping up to the plate again to arm a newly created American (Afghan) unit called the Taliban that American troops are fighting now. People in Congress who deserve to be hung and patriots in the United States understand this. We are led by traitors of the Republic (heavy emphasis on traitors). Wars started by false A priori assumptions the sheeple fall for it all the time.

Originally posted by MarkScheppy

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Furthermore us Yanks as you said will take care of it ourselves. If you arn't a Yank then worry about your own damn country.

Just so you know we don't call each other Yanks.

I am from America though, Proud to be a yank! From Texas and I wasn't officially led on to what I was (a "yank?")well... Went to Canada and learned that they think all of us blokes from the U.S. of A ya're are wicked yanks. So I am a yank ya'll, with not an ounce iota of chocolate or military training.

If a england Limey come to my door in yank-land be rest assured I will lay his head on the ground Hell on earth with a rifle butt. The term gets old when that is all they can come down on you, it's a compliment to be a Yankee, (as long as you don't get called a wanker.) Merry Old England financed the Confederacy cuz they did not like Union boys. I am proud of being American and a yank, I just wish we would get out of the foreign wars. Soccer is soccer, ain't "football."

edit on 5-1-2012 by MarkScheppy because: add

I'm with Grimpachi, there's no way you are from America. Nobody uses 'yank', 'wanker', 'bloke', 'ya're', 'Union boys', and 'limey' (I have no clue what a 'limey' even is, and you'd be hardpressed to find anyone in America who does.) That you're supposedly from Texas is even more suspicious. I'm from Mississippi, and am about as liberal as you can be but I don't know anyone who talks like that (let alone refers to themselves as 'yanks'.) My fellow southerners may refer to themselves as: rednecks, southerners, country boys, hicks, etc but never 'rebels/rebs.' I've known a few Canadians (though admittedly not enough to base any of their behavior as universally Canadian), and none of them use any of that slang.

And England (with the exception of the Trent Affair) stayed out of the Civil War shenanigans as much as possible.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Equidae
And England (with the exception of the Trent Affair) stayed out of the Civil War shenanigans as much as possible.

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 7/1/12 by Equidae because: (no reason given)

Keep singing your hymns. Britain was the Confederacy for trade. They brought slaves to America and the south were the ones that had slaves as a lifeline for the British colonies producing cotton textiles. Palmerston wrote a letter to his Queen from India the day that the civil war began, saying that he is happy to report the United States are going to be permanently dissolved. Wikipedia (ya'll are educated) you are giving me links from an online propaganda based encylopedia.

Racism and slavery are synonymous with the British's empire for the same reasons why American troops are getting killed and dying and coming back with war syndrome and trauma from places like Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't have the time to perfect you're thought and do In situs analysis research for you cuz you can't do your own figuring things out (posting from wiki, com'on.)

reply to post by MarkScheppy


Kick rocks Tex! You have been trying to pass yourself of as a American and you don't know the first thing about us. Go push your propaganda somewhere else.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I know I have made a difference I know people are alive because I was there or because of the training I gave them.

What about the people who are dead because you were there or due to the training you gave people? Does that ever come into play? That 'the others' are people too: sons, fathers, brothers etc?

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I know I have made a difference I know people are alive because I was there or because of the training I gave them.

What about the people who are dead because you were there or due to the training you gave people? Does that ever come into play? That 'the others' are people too: sons, fathers, brothers etc?

What about them? They shouldn't have shot at me or my friends its as simple as that. Maybe they shouldn't have blown themselves up trying to kill me. Maybe they shouldn't have hidden in crowds or used human shields.
I have no remorse for them plain and simple. They killed more of there own trying to get to us so I don't want you to think for a secound I have any remorse for them.

More people are alive because of what I have done than dead because those SOBs didn't care who they killed. You can get off your high horse or kick rocks yourself because no granola crunchin hippie that doesnt know the differance between horse shoes and hand grenades is going to tell me different.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

What about them? They shouldn't have shot at me or my friends its as simple as that. Maybe they shouldn't have blown themselves up trying to kill me. Maybe they shouldn't have hidden in crowds or used human shields.
I have no remorse for them plain and simple. They killed more of there own trying to get to us so I don't want you to think for a secound I have any remorse for them.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know. Were you in the U.S. or their country? Hmmm. I think that perfectly illustrates the effect of military training on humans, and their lack of humanity ( and reasoning, kindness and unconditional love) and you should know that you can be bigger than that, can be braver than that, can be stronger than that by refusing to carry out the dirty work of the big boys. Instead, you chose to contribute to - and perpetuate- 'the problem' and take the low road.

Originally posted by GrimpachiYou can get off your high horse or kick rocks yourself because no granola crunchin hippie that doesnt know the differance between horse shoes and hand grenades is going to tell me different.

I take your pejorative (look it up ) as a compliment, though I know you meant it as an ignorant insult.

At the end of the day I truly feel sorry for you.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Grimpachi

What about them? They shouldn't have shot at me or my friends its as simple as that. Maybe they shouldn't have blown themselves up trying to kill me. Maybe they shouldn't have hidden in crowds or used human shields.
I have no remorse for them plain and simple. They killed more of there own trying to get to us so I don't want you to think for a secound I have any remorse for them.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know. I think that perfectly illustrates the effect of military training on humans, and their lack of humanity ( and reasoning, kindness and unconditional love) and you should know that you can be bigger than that, can be braver than that, can be stronger than that by refusing to carry out the dirty work of the big boys. Instead, you chose to contribute to - and perpetuate- 'the problem' and take the low road.

Originally posted by GrimpachiYou can get off your high horse or kick rocks yourself because no granola crunchin hippie that doesnt know the differance between horse shoes and hand grenades is going to tell me different.

I take your pejorative (look it up

) as a compliment, though I know you meant it as an ignorant insult.

At the end of the day I truly feel sorry for you.

edit on 7-1-2012 by aorAki because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-1-2012 by aorAki because: (no reason given)

I would love to see you go over there and try to sell your unconditional love Bull to them. I just wonder how long your head would be attached to your shoulders. My humanity is fully intact along with my common sense. I think you have been smoking too much weed because you have to be high or either you are still a child to think the world is a nice place.

Have you ever been out of your country? Do you think the world is a nice place? Are you one of these people that claims we can all get along? I guess you would just sit there and let yourself get shot or let your friends get shot over your ideals. Talk all you want but you don't have a clue. Maybe when you get older you will look back and see how wrong you have been.