Military training and it's effect on humans

I've known a few people in the defense force and there is one thing that i've noticed that comes around to bite me in the ass every time.

in the year after they finish their basic they become different people, out of touch with their basic humanity and convinced that they are a different breed. Convinced that they are better then the civilian population. Colder.

They sever relationships with their 'Civy' friends, convinced that they have become better as people when the reality is that they are merely brainwashed into thinking that they are now part of some kind of brotherhood, some kind of elite group that has an excuse to shed their basic humanity. They develop and 'us' and 'them' mentality and it strips them of their humanity. They think they are so tough and capable but really they are just moulded into a part of a machine, completely replaceable and disposable.

They distance themselves from anything 'Civvy' including friends and family that has always been there for them. They are institutionalised to believe that their new 'pack' cares more about them and understands them better then their old friends, the people that genuinely love them. They are wiped clean and reprogrammed to be a good little soldier that follows the bouncing ball and doesn't question the world around them. They are convinced into thinking that their new 'Family' is more real and stable then the one they left back in useless 'Civvy' land.

Then they get deployed to a war zone and they witness hell. They are humans like the rest of us so they sometimes break and when they do they are suddenly far less important and valuable to their new 'Family' they have no one left to turn to because they've severed ties with the people who really care and then they are left to wither and die, incapable of real independance because they've been so heavily indoctrined to rely on the 'pack'.

I'm sick of being the victim of this s&%t time and time again. giving of myself freely in a genuine attempt to form a strong and loving bond and then being discarded because i'm just another useless 'civvy' that doesn't understand. I understand, i understand only too well. and i'm sick of seeing beautiful and unique people allowing themselves to be wiped clean and reprogrammed to be a good little bit of cannon fodder, to lose their true individuality and become cogs in a heartless machine that lies to them and makes them believe they are better off.

Sure, military training has many advantages, it can't be denied. the skills that are taught are usually top notch but it's what is lost that is the real tradgedy.

After a few years of service most people (because thats what they are, 'people', 'humans' like the rest of us) come good again. they start to remember that they are actually a part of human society and not seperated from it. Others die or are disabled and discover all too quick just how 'important' their new families think they are.

I don't know of a solution to this, and i don't really know where i'm going with this. all i know is that i'm sick of saying goodbye to people i care about.

when will it all end?

Have you spoken to my mother about this?

She thinks I came out of the Marines angry.

I was already pissed before I went in.

All jokes aside, I still find myself calling upon the training I received - in general life - not fighting wars.

reply to post by Raivan31


sir what an excellent post!

i don't even know what to say, i agree on every single point you've made.

when will it all end?

as long as war means money and killing people overseas equals patriotism, i'm afraid it will not mate.

reply to post by Raivan31


Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza. They can run forever while their civy friends are stuck on the couch. They play real war games while their civy friends play XBOX. They risk their lives while their civy friends risk nothing. They are in athletic shape while their civy friends are in a pear shape. Better indeed.

EDIT - Watch this war propaganda to educate yourself about servicemen.

reply to post by capod2t


I dunno man, i don't mean to be insulting.. i've just been thrown away by people in this situation too many times and i had to speak out about it, even if it is to relative strangers.

My best friend was an instructor for many years so i am well aware of how the training process takes place, i'm not a complete outsider.

I'm sorry if i have offended you, honestly, it's just that my mopst recent experience is still raw and fresh in my mind

in the year after they finish their basic they become different people, out of touch with their basic humanity and convinced that they are a different breed. Convinced that they are better then the civilian population. Colder.

I've been noticing the same thing since I was a child and paid attention to family and friends in the military. This can also be said for most of the police forces, a "better than the civilians" attitude dominates their logic and morality base.

We are in big trouble when all these PTSD troops finally come home, if they make it that far. The adverts for joining the military are placed in predetermined areas for maximum effect. Call Of Duty is a prime example of pre-training for a future in the military, getting them while their still young and embedding the normalcy of war into their mentalities.

I feel for them all.

reply to post by BIGPoJo


i don't care what you think of me.

but..

Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza.

the soldiers overseas right now.
be it from the USA, Europe or anywhere else for that matter are NOT fighting for me.

i don't support their actions.

not afghanistan, not iraq, not libya, not a single one of them.

you can't make me respect a man for killing people in the name of freedom, democracy, liberation or whatever the fake agenda is.

They play real war games while their civy friends play XBOX.

playing real war makes you more of a man how???

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza. They can run forever while their civy friends are stuck on the couch. They play real war games while their civy friends play XBOX. They risk their lives while their civy friends risk nothing. They are in athletic shape while their civy friends are in a pear shape. Better indeed.

C'mon soldier, you know thats mostly B.S, Everybody has an equal value, everybody has the same potential. All men are equal, isn't that the reason given for fighting in the first place?

When my life is threatened and i'm forced to fight i must do it without back-up, without the benefit of training and advanced weaponary. I know how to fight. I know how to be disciplined, i know how to work hard.

What do you expect when people join a 'death-cult'?

What's the goal of the military? To Kill.
What's the mode of operation? Indoctrination and cult policies.

No surprise at all when they become heartless purveyors of death.

If they didn't look down on civilians as a different species of being, perhaps I wouldn't be willing to criticize them so vehemently.

It makes it a lot easier to kill people when you think of them as sub-human or lesser beings. That's why they are brainwashed that way, so they don't flip out after basically murdering people in cold blood or helping to accomplish that.

It's definitely a cult however, compare all of the aspects of a cult with the aspects of the military organizations.

Here is the "Cult Checklist".
Cults 101

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

Check.

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

Check.

Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

Check.

The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

Check.

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

Check.

The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

Check.

he group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

Check.

The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

Check.

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

Check.

The group is preoccupied with making money.

Check.

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

Check.

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

Check.

The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Check.

It's for sure a Cult.
Only like one or two of the characteristics are partially met, while the others are fully met.

I could argue that the ones partially met are still applicable through various lines of rationale.

reply to post by BIGPoJo


They might become better at killing others, they may become more disciplined, they may become stronger and fitter, but all for the purpose of making them better killing machines.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza.

All cults think they are better than non-cult members.

Interesting how calling this a "death-cult" is probably the most accurate assessment after careful evaluation.

Enjoy reveling in prejudice friend, but we will continue to tear down your paradigm until you realize the tyranny you are actually supporting.

reply to post by muzzleflash

you made an awesome post?

check.

I'm sorry if i have offended you

reply to post by Raivan31


Dude - no - I was not insulted..Just commenting lightheartedly while acknowledging your point.

I AGREE! I AGREE!

reply to post by muzzleflash


We need to throw that whole post into giant posters and stick them up all around recruiting stations across these countries. Everyone needs to star that post so it gets the attention it merits. The comparable facts are undeniable and blatant.

Yes and yes. People become discontented to "civilians" and civilian life. I've had a couple friends who become weird for lack of a better word. It changed them, and not in a good way.. excessively serious and arrogant when dealing with non military people, they think they're above the silly regular world.

But on the other hand I have relatives who are in the army and they haven't changed as significantly, maybe it's most apparent when they are dealing with non family, non-military persons.

While i agree with the 'cult' concept i don't want to attack these people. They are my friends and family and more recently my lovers.

My heart is broken and i'm seriously depressed that i was put into a situation where in order to preserve the relationship for the future i was forced to give my support and pat them on the back and say 'good luck'.

I wish the best for this particular person and i really want them to be happy, but i have been treated like i don't matter when all i've done is care about them.

The influence extends beyound the ones that have been trained. it bleeds out into the civillian population, forces people like myself to adopt an attitude that does not reflect who i really am.
I find myself sometimes badmouthing civillians despite the fact that i am one. I feel the desire to become a part of their culture so i can be near the ones i love.

It hurts. It sucks.

reply to post by Raivan31


Yes, everyone has equal potential. Why is it that some choose to be military men while others slob around on the couch? At least the service men are contributing to society, the other does little to contribute. Yes, we all have equal potential but its what we do with that potential that matters.

The fact is, there are countries around the planet that would eviscerate America if we did not have a military presence. If we did not have cops, criminals would eviscerate the innocent with little regard. If we did not have correctional officers prisoners would do as they wish. I would rather live in a world where people with authority feel authoritative rather than a world with zero authority.

Do you enjoy the feeling of having to fight life or death for your family on a daily basis? If it was not for the militant authority that exists today then you would be fighting for survival on a daily basis.

reply to post by Raivan31


Nice post! I have a friend that went into the Navy and resembles your post to a tee. It's funny in highschool he was the drunk idiot that could not handle his liquor and became a different person when intoxicated. Now he has his huge raised truck, with illegal bright lights that blind the people in the car in front of him and doesn't associate with anyone but his military friends. I had the FBI call me to question me about him and some rape incident that he was involved in with in port in Groton, CT. quality guy.

Originally posted by Raivan31

I don't know of a solution to this, and i don't really know where i'm going with this. all i know is that i'm sick of saying goodbye to people i care about.

when will it all end?

edit on 15-11-2011 by Raivan31 because: typo's

I know the solution Raivan31.

You are the solution.
Your voice.

Don't you ever forget that.
Keep pushing forward.

reply to post by Raivan31

I feel the desire to become a part of their culture so i can be near the ones i love.

not being a jerk right here, but that's a choice you make.
if you feel the need to change who YOU are in order to 'fit in'.
that's a deliberate choice you're making.

but you''ve already said that.
stay true to yourself.
(i know, if it only were that easy huh?)

It hurts. It sucks.

i feel you and feel for you.
but remember, your own well being is what counts and is at stake.