Ancient bronze artifact from East Asia unearthed at Alaska archaeology site

For those interested in ancient civilizations..

A National Science Foundation-funded excavation led by the University of Colorado Boulder to look at human response to climate change on the Seward Peninsula in Alaska some 1,000 years ago has yielded a bronze artifact resembling a buckle that was found inside an ancient house dug into the side of a sand-covered beach ridge once occupied by Inupiat Eskimos. The object is the first prehistoric bronze artifact made from a cast ever found in Alaska and appears to have originated in East Asia.

A small piece of leather found wrapped around the rectangular bar by the research team yielded a radiocarbon date of roughly A.D. 600, which does not necessarily indicate the age of the object,

Since bronze metallurgy from Alaska is unknown, the artifact likely was produced in East Asia and reflects long-distance trade from production centers in either Korea, China, Manchuria or southern Siberia,

link to full article

As these appear to be of eastern origin, is it possible that these are the remnants of one of Admiral Zheng He's voyages?

Originally posted by Flavian
As these appear to be of eastern origin, is it possible that these are the remnants of one of Admiral Zheng He's voyages?

I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps it is possible that the Admiral's voyage to the "new world" is more fact than we are willing to admit. This might be the first piece to the puzzle that sheds light on his story.

isnt carbon-14 dating supposed to be uinreliable?

1000 years ago? hardly ancient, come to Europe we have pubs older than that!

BTW looks like a bottle opener...

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
1000 years ago? hardly ancient, come to Europe we have pubs older than that!

BTW looks like a bottle opener...

I am from Europe, hence the Mr London in my name..

And you are completely missing the point...

Originally posted by Picollo30
isnt carbon-14 dating supposed to be uinreliable?

Not as unreliable as our History classes we must take.

The carbon dating works to a degree...better than most think.

Originally posted by Flavian
As these appear to be of eastern origin, is it possible that these are the remnants of one of Admiral Zheng He's voyages?

Ah no, this artifact is many centuries earlier than Zheng's voyages which were in the 15th century. That part of Alaska is about 80 kilometers from Asia. I would suspect the item came from trade with other Inuits in Asia- which has been done since the ancestors of Inuit crossed over the Berring straits or came from a vessel that came there either by chance or by purpose.

Very interesting this may be the equivalent for the West coast of the Americas as the Maine Penny (which is disputed) was on the East coast. The archaeologist speculated that it came from southern Siberia. As this discovery is rather 'green' and the dates haven't been confirmed these dates may altered. I would suspect that a search of the literature of northern Asia will find a twin for that type of manufacture.

Video on the buckle's discovery

If it stands up its a good piece of hard evidence.

reply to post by Hanslune


I understand what you are saying but the article does state that they do not know if the article actually dates from that period or from later, raising the possibility.......

Zheng actually undertook several voyages so it is entirely plausible that one of them went eastwards. That said it is more likely that is was the result of trade with Inuits.

reply to post by Misterlondon

Okay, just a stupid thought here. All over the world we are finding things that should not be there because the old guys from centuries ago didn't have the knowledge or transportation to travel around this globe. Yet here we are. We are the smartest, most advanced race on the planet earth.
No one has ever been smarter than us!!!
Yeah right!! The best thing we can do is dig these things up and hide it in museums where the general public will never see it. This will make the archeologists feel that they have been always right.
Sorry, this is just my morning rant.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I understand what you are saying but the article does state that they do not know if the article actually dates from that period or from later, raising the possibility.......

Zheng actually undertook several voyages so it is entirely plausible that one of them went eastwards. That said it is more likely that is was the result of trade with Inuits.

The C-14 date shows that the leather part was way older, and the house itself is probably many centuries older than Zheng. Plus the records of Zhengs voyage don't mention him going that-a-way

Okay, just a stupid thought here. All over the world we are finding things that should not be there because the old guys from centuries ago didn't have the knowledge or transportation to travel around this globe. Yet here we are. We are the smartest, most advanced race on the planet earth.

Well no it is a fringe claim that 'they shouldn't be there' it is a claim easily dismissed

Yeah right!! The best thing we can do is dig these things up and hide it in museums where the general public will never see it. This will make the archeologists feel that they have been always right.
Sorry, this is just my morning rant.

Oh, been reading to many fringe sites I see, lol. Ah just in case you missed it but the buckle was found by an archaeologist and reported......I would note (from a former Archaeologist myself) that he's a lucky bastard because he will now get more grant money, lecture fees, book writing chances, tenure and general advancement of his career, perhaps even a call from National Geographic for a special - which is what happens when archaeologists find new stuff..

what about the possibility that the artifact was washed ashore... there have been tsunamis throughout history...

in this scenario there were no explorers or adventurers seeking trade or new lands to exploit... there might have been a Tsunami wave that caused a small boat to get carried into the land of Alaska... and the indigenous people
gathered up the pieces of strange items as keepsakes from the far western sea

reply to post by Hanslune


I do totally understand what you are saying but there were 7 voyages, the last of which was to explore the Western Ocean. At this stage, it is possible that they knew this could be reached via either the arctic circle or by navigating south america.

However, i digress as i do agree that the simplest solution (usually the correct one) is trade between those of southern Siberia and Inuits.

Back to the fanciful though, one of Zheng's expeditions at least was wrecked by storms - could one of his fanciful and enormous ships have been blown off course?

The sneaky Chin have always appeared at home in America to me!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I do totally understand what you are saying but there were 7 voyages, the last of which was to explore the Western Ocean. At this stage, it is possible that they knew this could be reached via either the arctic circle or by navigating south america.

The key to understanding Zheng's voyages is to throw out anything Gavin said, lol


1st Voyage

1405–1407

Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Aru (id:Aru), Samudera, Lambri, Ceylon, Kollam, Cochin, Calicut



2nd Voyage

1407–1409

Champa, Java, Siam, Cochin, Ceylon



3rd Voyage

1409–1411

Champa, Java, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Quilon, Cochin, Calicut, Siam, Lambri, Kayal, Coimbatore, Puttanpur



4th Voyage

1413–1415

Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Cochin, Calicut, Kayal, Pahang, Kelantan, Aru, Lambri, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Barawa, Malindi, Aden, Muscat, Dhofar



5th Voyage

1416–1419

Champa, Pahang, Java, Malacca, Samudera, Lambri, Ceylon, Sharwayn, Cochin, Calicut, Hormuz, Maldives, Mogadishu, Barawa, Malindi, Aden



6th Voyage

1421–1422

Hormuz, East Africa, countries of the Arabian Peninsula



7th Voyage

1430–1433

Champa, Java, Palembang, Malacca, Sumatra, Ceylon, Calicut, Fengtu ... (18 states in total)
Added link to source

reply to post by Hanslune


Just realised im guilty of western bias! The Western Ocean was the Indian Ocean then? And not the Atlantic.... Im a very silly man............

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Just realised im guilty of western bias! The Western Ocean was the Indian Ocean then? And not the Atlantic....

Im a very silly man............

No problem; one man's west is another man's east!

Yes old Zheng was hopping around the Indian ocean....I'd often wished the Chinese had kept up the practice of the fleets. A meeting between the Chinese and the Portuguese in the Indian ocean would have been interesting.

My thoughts immediately centered on the Vikings who had settlements in Greenland and Iceland in the 8th and 9th Centuries. We know the Vikings were accomplished seafarers and explorers. Looking at a map it's a clear shot from Greenland across Buffin Bay through the Northwest Passages to the Artic Ocean North of Canada. Sailing South would take the Vikings to the Northern shores of Alaska, they could then have sailed South along those shores and around Alaska to the Seward Penninsula. I think that as this dig continues more artifacts will be uncovered to use as cross reference points to hopefully give enough evidence to determine the origin of the bronze buckle and whatever else may be uncovered.

Originally posted by fishing4truth
My thoughts immediately centered on the Vikings who had settlements in Greenland and Iceland in the 8th and 9th Centuries. We know the Vikings were accomplished seafarers and explorers. Looking at a map it's a clear shot from Greenland across Buffin Bay through the Northwest Passages to the Artic Ocean North of Canada. Sailing South would take the Vikings to the Northern shores of Alaska, they could then have sailed South along those shores and around Alaska to the Seward Penninsula. I think that as this dig continues more artifacts will be uncovered to use as cross reference points to hopefully give enough evidence to determine the origin of the bronze buckle and whatever else may be uncovered.

Good thought but the Northwest passage - even in mild weather of that period, would still have been a major obstacle. The Vikings were navigators enough to avoid sailing during the winter or into pack ice. Your idea is impossible but I would question it implausibility - given the distance to Greenland vs the very short distance to Asia.

We'll have to await for further excavation and analysis.

As I noted above they will probably be able to pin point the era and production site of that buckle. They may even be able to tell what short of animal that piece of leather came from

reply to post by Misterlondon


Isotopic analysis of the copper, tin, and impurities should allow an estimate of the sources of those metals and this may help in bracketing the production date, unless the metal was recast at a later time. As I understand it, dating of material found with the artifact is an important technique. Hanslune can probably expound on this.

Originally posted by St Udio
what about the possibility that the artifact was washed ashore... there have been tsunamis throughout history...

in this scenario there were no explorers or adventurers seeking trade or new lands to exploit... there might have been a Tsunami wave that caused a small boat to get carried into the land of Alaska... and the indigenous people
gathered up the pieces of strange items as keepsakes from the far western sea

I like that theory.

Maybe they cut it out of the belly of a shark they caught that ate some china man.