OWS camp in NYC getting raided - Now .

Originally posted by DancedWithWolves

AND

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), the Supreme Court has held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies the First Amendment to each state, including any local government.

It seems fairly clear that local officials are included in having to observe this right guaranteed under the First Amendment.

Municipalities should NOT be able to deny a means to shelter or feed those assembled - until their grievances are redressed. That's where that right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness comes in.

An important discussion....thanks.

Peace.

source

OK, let's run with that, shall we? let's assume for the moment that the Constitution doesn't really mean what it says, and that a court can abrogate it by saying that it really means something other than what it says.

That still leaves the clause wherein redress of grievance is specifically applied as directed to government.

Have activist judges also abrogated that part as well in their legislation from the bench?

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You know this kind of response really makes you look ignorant.

What do you think is so inappropriate about the past Indian occupations being mentioned?

Why the sarcastic remarks in response to that post?

Are you familiar with those Indian "Occupations"? I am, and I resent that someone tries to equate them with the Chinese fire drill going on at OWS. The Indian Occupations had a goal, had a focus, they had PURPOSE, and were on their own lands. Alcatraz is arguable, I suppose, since it was claimed by the government, but even then the protest was against governmental abuse.

Not comparable to OWS at all.

ETA: I don't mind looking ignorant. I'll take my stand and stick to it, whatever is thrown. It won't be either the first or last time that someone has thought me ignorant.

reply to post by nenothtu


At least this answer is better than the first. I am from San Francisco, so I'm very familiar with the Indian occupation of Alcatraz. But I still disagree with your opinion of OWS and the Occupy movement.

Name any movement or protest in the past 30 years that has gotten their message Worldwide with this much support in a matter of 2 months.

You are falling for the main stream media's portrayal of the occupiers. Your stereotype of the occupiers and especially the people who support the movement are extremely incorrect.

There is a clear message that comes from this movement and also solidarity among it's supporters. You're entitled to your opinion. But I so am I and I can see the connections and similarities to the Indian occupiers of the past. I think there is a valid point to it and also something to think about when allowing the government to get away with removing the occupiers.

We are new Native Americans being tossed off our land and being herded onto reservations like cattle.

This is What A Police State Looks Like OccupyWallStreet

I had to make a quick compilation video just for this thread. The 10 best psychotic facial expressions from police officers 'hired goons" at Occupy protests featuring special audio. Anonymous laughs at you Officer.

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


That' s odd maybe you should not take a wrong turn next time you end up in the ghetto. Because at my local Occupy there was no, urine, fecal matter, turned over shopping carts, graffiti "unless was all ready there" and all the other loads of _____ you claim to have seen. No not at my local Occupy it was very clean, My City is a clean city but as far as the protesters go they were normal average productive citizens.

A photo of my local Occupy



And i have more but i rather link them instead of spamming the page with hearsay photos like you just did.Maybe you should not worry about litter and things that can be easily cleaned and instead worry about the scourge that has infested our Government, the Vermin that run the banks and the human garbage who enforce for and protect them.

If i give you a quarter will you go back under your bridge?

Originally posted by psyop911
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

dear ows drone, why didn't you protest 3 years ago when the bailouts were raging?
let me guess, you were still mesmerized by barry, right? just like most of the
people behind ows. right?

edit on 16-11-2011 by psyop911 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-11-2011 by psyop911 because: e

Oh now I am a Obamacon? Or whatever you call them "socialists" typical Ad Hominem attack as expected. No i was a and still am a Independent. And FYI I did raise a ruckus but people were too optomistic to do anything at the time. So i resorted to exposing the corruption in the best way I know how.. you may have heard of some of our work.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


Love the sound track of your new photo video montage.

I'm going to share it on my facebook.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


Love the sound track of your new photo video montage.

I'm going to share it on my facebook.



EDIT:

DAMN THESE DOUBLE POSTS

reply to post by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld


I'd like to know what books these people have in their libraries. Lenin or Che perhaps? The Communist Manifesto? Rules for Radicals, books by Chomsky


Hey if you drop back by that one in your pic, would you mind checking to see if they have a copy of The Constitution?

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by nenothtu

 

At least this answer is better than the first.

Yeah, I really shouldn't be typing before my first cup of coffee. My bad, and I apologize.

But I still disagree with your opinion of OWS and the Occupy movement.

As is your right and my privilege. If we agreed on everything, one of us would be redundant and unnecessary.

Name any movement or protest in the past 30 years that has gotten their message Worldwide with this much support in a matter of 2 months.

That was actually one of the red flags thrown up in early October that sent me digging deeper into the movement. Nothing ever is or ever will be that widespread AND spontaneous at the same time.

You are falling for the main stream media's portrayal of the occupiers. Your stereotype of the occupiers and especially the people who support the movement are extremely incorrect.

How so? I can only go by what I see, compared with what I have seen before. Enlighten me as to my incorrectness. I don't watch main stream media, and as a matter of fact have only gotten television within the last month to see what the fuss is about and what I'm missing out on. So far, not much.

There is a clear message that comes from this movement

The only "clear message" I've gotten from them so far is "we're angry about something, and can't get on the same page as to what that something is". What clear message are you getting from them?

and also solidarity among it's supporters.

Then why are their supporters constantly saying this one or that one doesn't "speak for the movement as a whole"? The agreement that no one speaks for them is about the extent of the solidarity that I've seen. One would think that "solidarity" would imply one voice and one message.

You're entitled to your opinion. But I so am I and I can see the connections and similarities to the Indian occupiers of the past. I think there is a valid point to it and also something to think about when allowing the government to get away with removing the occupiers.

I'm still not seeing that connection. In relation to the Indian occupations, particularly Wounded Knee, the government had no business engaging them. It wasn't government land, it was Indian land, and allegedly sovereign according to treaty obligations. They were on their own land, exercising their own rights, not going forth and hindering disinterested citizenry.

I don't see OWS as even being in that ballpark.

We are new Native Americans being tossed off our land and being herded onto reservations like cattle.

"We"? I've not been tossed off of my land yet, nor have I been herded anywhere. I'm not a "new Native American", I'm just an old Indian, and have been since birth.

reply to post by nenothtu


Your response was too much tl;dr and too long being broken up in sections so I will sum it up as best i can without making my own response a tl;dr response in turn.

From what you said it sounds like you would like to deal with peaceful protesters with violent aggression, saying stepping in their necks and such. This simian type of thinking is exactly what one would expect from .. oh say a Banker or an Elitist. You sound hawkish i must say. You remain upholding the status quo apparently in these OWS threads.. like it is not hard to notice. The psychology of violence behind a persons reaction to this very movement is the bi-product of losing a battle. You deem this movement offensive so much as if it affects your life in a negative way. With that said there are 3 factors one would think that would cause a person to think and or operate this way in these forums.

With all due respect you could very well be

1. financially involved with the Banks, Wall Street and seek to uphold the status quo. You are a citizen and or officer that has been indoctrinated/brain washed in to this upholding this militant police state. Perhaps a paid shill.

2. You are none of the above but a troll with a appetite for overkill derailing topics - likes to argue for the sake of arguing even when you know you are wrong. You just pick a side and just go with it, spray and pray.

3. You may belong to a political organization hell bent on hijacking/demoralizing/smearing OWS for self gain. You paint OWS as a political party and seed disinformation, stereo type the protesters as vagrants jobless hippies and "homeless bums" no matter how preposterous the claim is in an attempt to appease the wing of same bird and extreme neo cons alike , with a spin. Everything is related to the potus.

I could be wrong about all these things, yet I am willing to bet I hit the nail on the head somewhere between 1-3. One of these proceeds you imho. Seeing people of your ilk confirms to me that our work is paying off. Because rational thinking people with empathy do not mentally function this way. But it does not matter what you are between 1-3 the fact is you are here doing what you are doing speaks for itself. This is my observation. I respectfully and strongly disagree with everything you said because I know it is fallacy for a fact. Thanks to the ATS poll strongly weighing in our favor I need not say more. King Leonidas would agree, he was no conformist , he was not a Fiction writer. Just saying.

We are WINNING!

KNOW IT

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by dalloway

 

Indians Occupying Indian land? Who'd have thunk it?

OWS -- Americans occupying American Land. Think about it!

And actually, Alcatraz Island is owned by the U.S. Federal Government.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I'd like to know what books these people have in their libraries. Lenin or Che perhaps? The Communist Manifesto? Rules for Radicals, books by Chomsky

None of the above, i have war and peace, the Bible, some sci-fi, a bunch of science tech books and a lot of history books. And a couple of Italian cooks books I am such a terrorist lol. Wow some imagination you have there, you forgot Mein Kampf the anarchists cook book and Anton Lavey's satanic bible. Don't stop there with one stereo type now while you are ahead.

I did read Art Of War in the service, this must make me a radical?

Um yeah right lol

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Your response was too much tl;dr and too long being broken up in sections so I will sum it up as best i can without making my own response a tl;dr response in turn.

Sorry, I'm not fluent in textspeak, so that was entirely lost on me.

From what you said it sounds like you would like to deal with peaceful protesters with violent aggression, saying stepping in their necks and such.

"Peaceful protestors"? No. People who violate the rights of others? You betcha. OWS rights are not overriding of everyone elses, and when they start stepping on those rights, they have exceeded their authority.

This simian type of thinking is exactly what one would expect from .. oh say a Banker or an Elitist.

OK, so I'm a simian.

You sound hawkish i must say. You remain in upholding the status quo apparently in these OWS threads.. like it is not hard to notice.

Good to know that I'm having an impact.

The psychology of violence behind a persons reaction to this very movement is the product of losing a battle.

You might want to take it easy on the pseudopsychology. You could be at a distinct disadvantage there, especially if you run up on someone who is, say for instance, trained in real psychology. Also, there are no "battles" in a "peaceful protest", right? So how could one possibly be "lost"?

1. you are financially involved with the Banks, Wall Street and seek to uphold the status quo. You are a citizen and or officer that has been indoctrinated/brain washed in to this upholding this militant police state. Perhaps a paid shill.

Nope, not so much as a bank account or a credit card. You're an Anon - seek, see what you find. You may also find it enlightening to try finding a phone number or an address for me. When I said I had "dropped out", I wasn't just kidding. I practice what I preach. The "paid shill" allegation brings a grin - like it's the first time I've ever seen THAT at ATS from someone who has nothing else to back their position with!

2. You are none of the above but a troll with a appetite for overkill derailing topics - likes to argue for the sake of arguing even when you know you are wrong. You just pick a side and just go with it, spray and pray.

Perhaps. You'll notice if you do your homework that every single one of my posts is a RESPONSE to another post with which I have found issue. "Spray and pray" isn't usually very effective - it just wastes ammo. I, on the other hand, seem to be having effect, according to your own responses. When I'm wrong, I admit it. You'll find that in my posts as well. Therefore, your best bet is to try to prove me wrong.

3. You may belong to a political organization hell bent on hijacking/demoralizing/smearing OWS for self gain. You paint OWS as a political party and seed disinformation, stereo type the protesters as vagrants jobless hippies and "homeless bums" no matter how preposterous the claim is in an attempt to appease the wing of same bird and extreme neo cons alike , with a spin. Everything is related to the potus.

I have no political affiliation. if you do your Anon homework, you'll find that out, too. I hate neocons with a passion, and NOWHERE in these OWS threads have i mentioned the POTUS, or tried to make that connection at all. I may have mentioned the word "hippy" at some point in response to someone else's use of the term, but have not labeled OWS as "hippies". They are FAR more sinister than hippies, and I wouldn't disparage an honorable folk like that. Same for vagrants and homeless folks.

I could be wrong about all these things,

No "could be" about it. Where does that leave your argument, then?

Because rational thinking people with empathy do not mentally function this way.

that depends entirely on who or what they have empathy FOR. I think I've made mine pretty clear, and stated several times now on whose side I have taken a stand. From my very first post in relation to OWS that stand has been stated openly, rather than the vague inferences you prefer to try tarring me with. No need for inference - I have stated emphatically and openly that I am on the side of the American People.

I respectfully and strongly disagree with everything you said because I know it is fallacy for a fact. Thanks to the ATS poll strongly weighing in our favor I need not say more. King Leonidas would agree.

It is absolutely your right to disagree with me. It may be somewhat more effective to specify my "fallacies" than merely claiming I have them and moving on. I'll ignore the dig at the avatar - that's getting pretty old, and bespeaks an opponent who has no other smoke to throw.

We are WINNING!

KNOW IT

Again I must ask WHAT do you think you are winning?

Originally posted by dalloway

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by dalloway

 

Indians Occupying Indian land? Who'd have thunk it?

OWS -- Americans occupying American Land.

Think about it!

And actually, Alcatraz Island is owned by the U.S. Federal Government.

You're not an Indian, I see, or you wouldn't have made those mistakes. You seem to be oblivious to the concept of tribal lands, yet seek to apply that concept to other people's lands which belong to neither you nor your tribe.

Just an FYI - If I were you, I wouldn't try obstructing an Indian on tribal lands. that can get pretty dicey.

You should check into the Alcatraz occupation, and recall that I did mention that the feds lay claim to it, which is a statement of fact, but not an assignment of "ownership".

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


If I were to guess which one of the descriptions you listed that the poster fits. I would choose # 2

2. You are none of the above but a troll with a appetite for overkill derailing topics - likes to argue for the sake of arguing even when you know you are wrong. You just pick a side and just go with it, spray and pray.

I don't like to stereotype but usually people who make some big mean looking warrior badass as their avatar are in real life small skinny kids with big egos who were picked on in school and live vicariously online as some macho dude who seeks power and revenge from his fat bullying school yard overlords.

Originally posted by nenothtu


You're not an Indian, I see, or you wouldn't have made those mistakes. You seem to be oblivious to the concept of tribal lands, yet seek to apply that concept to other people's lands which belong to neither you nor your tribe.

Just an FYI - If I were you, I wouldn't try obstructing an Indian on tribal lands. that can get pretty dicey.

.

Agree.


Might not want to even drive through a few of them.............

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

If I were to guess which one of the descriptions you listed that the poster fits. I would choose # 2

2. You are none of the above but a troll with a appetite for overkill derailing topics - likes to argue for the sake of arguing even when you know you are wrong. You just pick a side and just go with it, spray and pray.

I don't like to stereotype but usually people who make some big mean looking warrior badass as their avatar are in real life small skinny kids with big egos who were picked on in school and live vicariously online as some macho dude who seeks power and revenge from his fat bullying school yard overlords.

I didnt know Guy Fawkes was SOOO intimidating???

reply to post by nenothtu


I guess I am beating a dead horse here, you are not receptive to the logic i provided that's perfectly fine with me. But you actually have not made an impact. I mean you are obviously sympathetic to this corruption and in doing so you demonize an entire group of individuals with the usual straw man argument. As far as the protesters stepping on the rights of other people that is laughable, whatever random acts that can have and will occur at OWS could never hold a candle to what the ptb have done "whom you seem less concerned with" ironically.

Crime and litter and undesirable things will always happen where any large group of people congregate. If that is really your argument in saying this such a threat then i have to lol, might as well hold the rest of America's society accountable in doing so hence irrelevant and moot, if i choose to go to a Heavy Metal concert and some guy spills his beer on me in the crowd and i become so outraged that i join the PMRC and demonize Heavy Metal because some drunk spilled beer on my knickerbockers then everyone would call me..

An IDIOT!

Really I mean if waste and random crime is an issue then you wont like living just about anywhere on planet earth. There is this thing called "tolerance" you see. However this is not about trash and poop in the street this is about where your priorities come from. Well nice to see you express your concerns.

Must be lonely over there ?

reply to post by sonnny1



Or in your case what appears to be a alien/pope perhaps a demon or ghost or whatever?

Hello over there on the side lines, nice pom poms


Ok back on topic, this is derailing

Sorry mods I apologize for sonnny1

double post