Let's kill the Pentagon Missile attack once and for all., page 7
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reply posted on 4-9-2004 @ 11:34 PM by Cutwolf
Here are my thoughts on 9/11 in general:

What also gets me is the Cell Phone calls, especially on Flight 93.


FAA headquarters had by this time established an open line of communication with the Command Center at Herndon and instructed it to poll all the Centers about suspect aircraft. The Command Center executed the request and, a minute later, Cleveland Center reported that "United 93 may have a bomb on board." That was the information Command Center relayed to FAA headquarters at 9:34 a.m. Between 9:34 a.m. and 9:38 a.m., the controller observed United 93 climbing to 40,700 feet and immediately moved several aircraft out of its way. The controller continued to try to contact United 93, and asked whether the pilot could confirm that he had been hijacked. There was no response. Then, at 9:39, a fifth radio transmission came over the radio frequency from United 93




That according to foxnews.com's timeline.
Fox News


Now, the 9/11 report says the following:



The Report confirms that passengers started placing calls with cell and air phones shortly after 9.32am, four minutes after the Report's confirmation of the plane's attitude of 35,000 feet. These cell calls started some 9 minutes before the Cleveland Center lost United 93,s transponder signal



The only noted drop in altitude was a 700 feet drop at 9:28.

4 minutes later, the first cell phone calls began. The transponder data was not lost until 9 minutes after the first cell phone call, meaning any major drop in altitude would probably have been noted in the 9/11 report.

I suggest you read this data: Cell Phone Altitude Test

According to this test, the probability of a cell phone call going through at 32,000 feet on a plane with much thinner skin than a Boeing is .006%. The probably of mulitple cell phone calls going through is borderline impossible.


Also, a thing to note in the data:


For example if a cell (area serviced by a given cellsite) were a mile in diameter, the aircraft would be in it for one to eight seconds. Before a cellphone call can go through, the device must complete an electronic "handshake" with the cellsite servicing the call. This handshake can hardly be completed in eight seconds. When the aircraft comes into the next cell, the call must be "handed off" to the new cellsite. This process also absorbs seconds of time. Together, the two requirements for a successful and continuous call would appear to absorb too much time for a speaking [connection to be established. Sooner or later, the call is "dropped."


[edit on 4-9-2004 by Cutwolf]



reply posted on 5-9-2004 @ 01:27 AM by piboy
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Well, if you're going to rule out government explanations you're going to have to rule out all investigations of aircraft accidents, since it is the NTSB that investigates all aircraft accidents.


Sigh.

From:
www.aviationlawcorp.com...


What Happens To The NTSB Report In Court?

NTSB probable cause determinations are not admissible in evidence!


and more...

Judge's have even a greater concern - if they were to simply show the jury the NTSB Report in all of its finality, juries would simply defer to the opinions of the federal investigators. Litigants would, in effect, be denied their right to a jury trial because the jury's prerogatives would be usurped by the findings of investigators who had investigated a particular accident.


Am I not getting through as to what evidence is? We need to publicly show irrefutable proof that it was Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. We need journalist reporting on the evidence retrieved from a slow, thorough excavation of the rubble. We need eye-witnesses to swear affidavits at to exactly what they saw. C'mon, they even do this on "Law & Order"!

more...

In order to enable the NTSB to determine the probable cause of accidents and improve aviation safety, its investigators are given more legal power than many governmental agencies. NTSB investigators have the right to interrogate witnesses on demand, inspect files, enter facilities and aircraft, examine the processes and computer data of any party involved in an air crash.


Do you remember this happening?

even more...

What Really Goes On In An NTSB Investigation?

In a major air crash investigation, each of the groups and parties involved, have daily meetings to review the ongoing developments in the investigation. Notes are taken, draft reports are discussed, and various theories as to the cause of the crash are explored.

Do you remember this happening?

still more...

What Is Included In An NTSB Report?

Field investigations result in a factual report, from which the investigator recommends a probable cause determination to the Board. The Board then reviews field investigation reports and votes to adopt, reject or modify the probable cause determination recommended by a Field Investigator.

When the NTSB approves a Field Investigator's Factual Report, their probable cause determination along with a summary of the relevant facts is published on a quarterly basis. You can find all such accidents by date and location in "Briefs of Accident" in the public dockets section of NTSB Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

Major accident investigations led by NTSB "Go Teams" are more heavily documented.

uh, where is the flight 77 report? (And we are talking about the crash, not just flight path or how the terrorists go into the cockpit)

and finally...

Air Crash Investigation and Analysis Checklist

The following is an abbreviated list of information from all sources, which experienced aviation accident lawyers should know how to quickly obtain after a major accident, in order to assist a client with an independent investigation:

+ Airworthiness Directives Files
+ Service Bulletins and Letters and Instructions
+ TSOs
+Advisory Circulars and Other FAA Orders
+ General Aviation Inspection Aids
+ Patent Applications
+ Hazard Reports
+ Service Difficulty Reports
+ Malfunction Defect Reports
+ Overhaul and Maintenance Records
+ Annual or Periodic Inspection Records
+ Pilot, Airplane, Engine and Propeller Logbooks
+ Certified NWS Weather Data
+ FAA Facility Logs
+ FAA Aircraft Certification Files
+ FAA Airman License and Medical Files
+ FAA Airman Training Records
+ FAA Aircraft Title and Registration Records
+ TRACON Radar Raw Data generated by ARTS
+ NTAP Radar Raw data from the ARTCC
+ Flight Plans and Ship Logs
+ Investigative Reports of Federal, State, County and Municipal Law Enforcement, Emergency, Fire and
Rescue Agencies

+ Medical Reports (its amazing what is quoted in medical history taken by doctors)
+ Autopsy Reports
+ CAMI Toxicology Reports
+ Wreckage Scene Photos
+ Wreckage Pattern Videotapes
+ Airport Data
+ Navigational Charts
+ Instrument Approach Plates
+ Reports of similar accidents involving similar aircraft or components
+ NTSB and ICAO Safety Summaries and Recommendations
+ Tape Recordings of "all" communications relevant to the accident flight, (not just the usual 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after contact with the accident aircraft)


Does the NTSB's own descriptions of their own investigations sound like what was done for flight 77?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Over and out.


You just mean "out", right? You are in the military, right?

[edit on 5-9-2004 by piboy]



reply posted on 5-9-2004 @ 01:54 AM by GradyPhilpott
www.ntsb.gov...

according to this report the investigation is open. I would suspect that much of these attacks are classified. At any rate, it is not usually a customary to issue a report prior to the completion of the investigation.


reply posted on 5-9-2004 @ 02:03 AM by piboy
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
www.ntsb.gov...

according to this report the investigation is open. I would suspect that much of these attacks are classified. At any rate, it is not usually a customary to issue a report prior to the completion of the investigation.


No. According to the NTSB they aren't doing the investigation! The FBI is! How will the FBI do the investigation? When do we get to see the evidence? We would see the evidence if the NTSB did the investigation.

And yes, they do provide information as they (NTSB) do their investigation. That is their SOP.


reply posted on 5-9-2004 @ 03:24 AM by ThichHeaded



reply posted on 5-9-2004 @ 07:16 AM by earthtone


At this speed there seems to a little jump from when it is behing the parking meter.
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