Scientific evidence that that supports the theory of alien life.

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posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 





The signal is also particularly interesting because its frequency was, within a small margin of error, exactly equal to the spectral line of hydrogen.

you mean, like it was send with a hydrogen-laser ?




posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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WOW great thread and a great read. Like others have said this is the kind of stuff i sugned up for! great right up!!! S&F for you!!!



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 


I know, I know but this is not enough for the 'Know-It-All' 'experts' to even take the Ancient Aliens theory as a possibilty, not to say as a fact..



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Just a follow up point, after a bit of research,

Apparently Maurice Chatelain was never head of communications at NASA, in fact he was an engineer, and it seems he had left NASA before the Apollo 11 mission, so could not have heard Neil Armstrong's secret transmission, that's not to say I don't believe they saw things, in space and on the moon.

Funnily enough Phage has tackled this one Here


Shame though.



thanks Soapusmaximus, im going to have a little read of that thread now.. its the first time i was aware of it..



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by Misterlondon
 

thanks for your effort. what does this "6EQUJ5" actualy mean ?


Explained in detail here

No, it does not mean "take me to your leader". It means there was a burst in intensity.

As far as I'm concerned, one spurious event (or two) does not mean jack.



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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its nice to see this sort of timeline to a wealth of good UFO evidence weather or not people call it science?... well thats opinion anyway science is a process.

one thing you are missing and one of my favorite UFO or alien encounters.

its about John Lennon and a golden egg shaped rock given to him by beings not from this world.

The night aliens called on Lennon


He (Lennon) said he believed life existed on other planets, that it had visited us, that maybe it was observing us right now. He took me to a quieter, darker table, lit a cigarette and pointed its glowing tip at my face.

“You believe in this stuff, right?” he asked me. “Well, you ain’t f---in’ gonna believe this.



another one I think you missed from Astronaut Edgar Mitchell.


"Make no mistake, Roswell happened. I've seen secret files which show the government knew about it — but decided not to tell the public." — Ed Mitchell Source


there is also the unexplained Phenomenon of crop circles and how they are made. I dont mean to bring that debate here as I know people love to say crop circles are explained but that is most ignorant.

crop circles are not man made sure man can make copies but they are easily spotted as man made, there are to many unexplained anomolies in crop circles that man has yet to copy.
Crop Circles...with some actual evidence



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by icepack
 


No, more like a massive or super-dense region of hydrogen far away that we happened to detect and, for some reason, haven't detected since. Or, more likely (yes, you heard me right...more likely), it could've been a signal sent by some intelligent extraterrestrial species specifically at the hydrogen spectral line (hydrogen, of course, being the most abundant element in the known universe) in order to highlight the fact that it is, in fact, an intelligent-sent signal.

But, then, the most likely origin is some unknown cosmological, but natural, event.



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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I'd like to comment on each set of evidence.

 

"WOW!" SETI Signal

I've already given most of my opinion on this. While I'm definitely intrigued by the possibility that the "WOW!" signal was sent by some extraterrestrial intelligence, I don't believe so. I believe it was most likely a result either of some natural cosmological event (perhaps akin to a supernova or a once-off pulsar) or of some other coincidental terrestrial event (though, this is highly improbably...hence, it would have to be very coincidental).

 

2003 SETI Signal

This signal, SHGb02+14a, was similar to the "WOW!" signal because, while it was less intense and was "heard" multiple times, it occurred at the same frequency - the hydrogen line of about 1420 MHz.

This, to me, suggests that both this and the "WOW!" signal are the result of some unknown natural hydrogen-based phenomenon.

 

Mars

At the moment, I think Mars is probably our best chance of discovering extraterrestrial life. It would no doubt be microbial, but life nonetheless. Plus, it would likely be fossilized, as Mars is less than satisfactory for sustaining life today. That, of course, is barring the ability of microbial life to adapt to a barren, dry, harsh environment, which is always possible. In the words of Ian Malcolm, "Life will find a way."

 

Moons of Jupiter and Saturn

I would consider the chance of finding life on any moon to be less than that of finding life on Mars, even though water still exists on those moons you mentioned. Lunar conditions are bound to be less favorable than those of a planet, especially given typically elliptical orbits, the general lack of an atmosphere, and much lower gravity.

Again, like on Mars, if life is found on any moon, it would probably be microbial - and I would bet even less advanced than anything we might find in Mars' past.

 

Venus

I'm not sure about Venus' planetary history, but I find it hard to believe, even if Venus were once suitable for supporting life, that we have any chance of finding evidence of that life now, given current conditions on the planet. Unless dinosaur-sized animals once roamed its surface, leaving a vast source of sizable fossils, I doubt much evidence exists.

 

Drake Equation

Quite simply: probably the most convoluted nonsensical equation ever "derived." A mathematical equation, predicting the number extraterrestrial civilizations, created by the only civilization we know to exist is meaningless. The "odds" are meaningless.
Providing any real answer to the equation (that is, N>0) demands two assumptions:

1) that life is able to self-form and does not depend on what we call "creation"
2) that existing life is able to become sentient and intelligent enough to form civilizations and attempt to contact other civilizations

These are two assumptions that I would reject. But, that's me.

 

UFOs

I appreciate that you added this section purely for the sake of argument, as it doesn't actually provide any scientific evidence. Ever since mom told me the story of her and her brother seeing a UFO at night that was illuminating their house with red, white, and blue lights, I've been of the opinion that all UFO sightings fall into four categories:

1) military projects
2) misidentified objects (weather balloons, rocket launches, etc.)
3) psychosomatic/neurological sources (delusions, hallucinations, etc.)
4) deception/hoaxes

But, again, that's me.

edit on 14-11-2011 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Star and flag! ATS has been pretty dull recently but i like your thread!
edit on 14-11-2011 by 11I11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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"WOW!" SETI Signal I've already given most of my opinion on this. While I'm definitely intrigued by the possibility that the "WOW!" signal was sent by some extraterrestrial intelligence, I don't believe so. I believe it was most likely a result either of some natural cosmological event (perhaps akin to a supernova or a once-off pulsar) or of some other coincidental terrestrial event (though, this is highly improbably...hence, it would have to be very coincidental).

2003 SETI Signal This signal, SHGb02+14a, was similar to the "WOW!" signal because, while it was less intense and was "heard" multiple times, it occurred at the same frequency - the hydrogen line of about 1420 MHz. This, to me, suggests that both this and the "WOW!" signal are the result of some unknown natural hydrogen-based phenomenon.


This i can partly agree on.. although anything said about these incidents (especially wow) are pure speculation at this point...Having said that they cannot be written off as something that did not come from an intelligent source.

The fact that they were sent on the hydrogen frequency actually adds more weight to the theory of intelligent life because if someone wanted to get noticed this frequency would be an ideal one to transmit on.

To also add weight to your theory, we had a similar scenario in 1967 with the pulsar so of course it is possible and actually more likely it has come from an unknown phenomenon, but it should not be ignored until we do find a reasonable explanation.

As i said though it is all speculation, so we wont really get anywhere with this one



At the moment, I think Mars is probably our best chance of discovering extraterrestrial life. It would no doubt be microbial, but life nonetheless. Plus, it would likely be fossilized, as Mars is less than satisfactory for sustaining life today. That, of course, is barring the ability of microbial life to adapt to a barren, dry, harsh environment, which is always possible. In the words of Ian Malcolm, "Life will find a way."


I have to agree with everything you say here.. although the reason it is our best chance of finding life imo is because of our current technology.. It is the best possibility this is where we will find evidence of life first.
I do think though it will likely be extinct life in the form of fossils. The chances of anything currently living there are slim but as we see with this planet, we have found life in the harshest conditions possible.

With current understanding and new discoveries regularly surfacing, it does seem more and more likely at one stage there was some form of life on Mars.




I would consider the chance of finding life on any moon to be less than that of finding life on Mars, even though water still exists on those moons you mentioned. Lunar conditions are bound to be less favorable than those of a planet, especially given typically elliptical orbits, the general lack of an atmosphere, and much lower gravity. Again, like on Mars, if life is found on any moon, it would probably be microbial - and I would bet even less advanced than anything we might in Mars' past.


Now here we have to disagree.. I believe this is the best possibility of life.

Titan is a primordial soup much the same as Earth once was. We are finding more and more potential building blocks for very basic life there, its thick atmosphere is rich in compounds that often mark the presence of living organisms. It has a thick atmosphere that absorbs the little solar radiation available which help drive the chemical processes that occur there.

Europa.. Scientists have theorized for years, that an ocean could be hiding beneath Europa's icy surface. One that even contains oxygen and is heated by the internal battle of gravity between Jupiter and its moons. Hydrothermal vents created from such heat could provide the essential ingredients for life, although it would most likely resemble the extreme microbes that thrive around Earth's hot underwater vents.

Enceladus imo is the most promising bet for life thanks to its welcoming temperature and the likely presence of water and simple organic molecules heated by the moons core. Carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen have also been detected by the cassini probe.

IO also has an atmosphere, and it contains complex chemicals promising for life. Volcanism on the moon also makes it warmer than many others.. another good sign. Altohugh due to the radiation it would be extremely hostile..



I'm not sure about Venus' planetary history, but I find it hard to believe, even if Venus were once suitable for supporting life, that we have any chance of finding evidence of that life now, given current conditions on the planet. Unless dinosaur-sized animals once roamed its surface, leaving a vast source of sizable fossils, I doubt much evidence exists.


Disregarding the planets past...



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


The science behind the theory of life is already mentioned in the thread, i will only be repeating what is already stated there.



Also in 2002, Chemical hints of life were found in old data from Venus probes and landers.

Life in Venus' clouds may be the best way to explain some curious anomalies in the composition of its atmosphere, claimed University of Texas astrobiologists in 2002.

The researchers' suggested solution to this conundrum is that microbes live in the Venusian atmosphere





The Drake Equation


ok fair enough.. If you want, we can totally throw the drake equation out of the _. instead we'll just use common sense.. I mean do you honestly think we are the only form of life in the entire universe?




I appreciate that you added this section purely for the sake of argument, as it doesn't actually provide any scientific evidence.
Ever since mom told me the story of her and her brother seeing a UFO at night that was illuminating their house with red, white, and blue lights, I've been of the opinion that all UFO sightings fall into four categories:
1) military projects
2) misidentified objects (weather balloons, rocket launches, etc.)
3) psychosomatic/neurological sources (delusions, hallucinations, etc.)
4) deception/hoaxes


I agree with all 4 but i would add a fifth, and that would be craft that are not of this world/dimension.. I think some of the UFO evidence is compelling..
But ive always found it doesnt matter what evidence is presented, some people will never believe in it.. as you say you got it first hand from one of the best sources on the planet, your mum.. and your still not convinced.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, there is nothing wrong with that..


To be honest Cl, ive seen you around the boards. There are a handful of people who I respect here and your one of them.. you are clearly an intelligent and level headed guy, with whom I generally tend to agree with, but unfortunately on this subject we are both on different sides of the fence and all we have is our opinions.. so this time we just have to agree to disagree..



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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Great Thread. S&F.

Does this "6EQUJ5" say anything in that, number code lanuage, some people on the internet speak nowa days?



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by Misterlondon
 


The evidence has always been here, its called "The Drake Equasion" Look it up!




posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Misterlondon

The fact that they were sent on the hydrogen frequency actually adds more weight to the theory of intelligent life because if someone wanted to get noticed this frequency would be an ideal one to transmit on.


Indeed. Personally, I find that particularly interesting. If it is a natural phenomenon, it must be exceptionally rare.



the reason [Mars] is our best chance of finding life imo is because of our current technology.. It is the best possibility this is where we will find evidence of life first.


Agreed. That's my reasoning, as well, I just didn't say so.

As for life in the atmosphere of Venus... I guess I missed that part. As with life on Mars, it would certainly be microbial, but, if it exists, then it exists...I can't say anything against it.



If you want, we can totally throw the drake equation out of the _. instead we'll just use common sense.. I mean do you honestly think we are the only form of life in the entire universe?


That's a very good question.

I actually have two answers.
First of all, we're certainly not the only form of life in the entire universe. I would bet we'll soon be finding both fossilized and existing microbial life in most of the places we search.
But, intelligent, sentient life...not so much. Insofar as civilization-forming lifeforms are concerned, I believe we've got this universe all to ourselves. There's a reason for that...I just don't usually go there in these parts.



as you say you got it first hand from one of the best sources on the planet, your mum.. and your still not convinced.


The lights were red, white, and blue. It was most likely American.



so this time we just have to agree to disagree..


I can handle that.



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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The biggest difficulty with all of this stuff is that it's applied to the theory of ET life/civilization retrospectively, rather than the result of a test being applied to a predictive hypothesis.

For example, right now, we don't know if Alpha Centari has any planets, but we probably will soon. It would be great to dig up an old carving or manuscript that specifically says Alpha Centari has three small rocky planets and three large gas giants, and there's no question about it or room for interpretation. Then we can hypothesize that whoever made the carving or wrote the manuscript had information that could not have been gotten by conventional means. Then we find out exactly how many planets Alpha Centari has. If it exactly matches, then we can at least claim a success. Unfortunately, we still couldn't say exactly how they got the information, even if they said they got the information from aliens. Could have been aliens. Could have been psychic power via hallucination. But it would have at least proved the hypothesis.

Coming up with stuff after the fact and saying, "well, this could be evidence of aliens," or "this drawing looks like a flying saucer, or a guy in a space suit," doesn't conform to logical scientific method. Unless somebody finds an obviously manufactured artifact -- or detects a stable, identifiable signal -- that is beyond any doubt alien (which conforms to the implied hypothesis that alien technology has qualities or functions of something we are currently unable to produce), then it's all just guesswork and subjective interpretation.

Absolutely nothing conforming to or even coming close to proving an alien hypothesis has been discovered, verified and confirmed. Yet. It could all change tomorrow, but it's very unlikely.

edit on 14-11-2011 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Awesome work Misterlondon. I have read a few of your posts and they are very well informed S&F for you!


The "Wow!" signal I believe was debunked saying that it was some natural phenom because they could never find or equate the signal again after many, many attempts. However my theory was it could have been somekind of "mother ship" passing through that general area of that constelation. The "Wow!" signal is very different though because, if i recall correctly, it was the first annomally that we have found so far (if that is indeed what it is just a natural phenom).

Mars imo has had life on it at one time, maybe some 600+ million years ago back when the dino were present or even before that maybe even billions. It would be awesome if they did find something that would be of proof on there of maybe even a past colony.

Europa is very neat to say the least. It has, if I remember right, almost 8 miles deep of ice. If there is something down there it prolly wont be much, some kind of microbes that thrive in intensive, often brutal enviroments, that would prolly kill any of us. Still there could be something waaaayy down there in the cold deep sea of Europa.

Good work again Misterlondon. S&F

-SAP-



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Griffo515
The evidence has always been here, its called "The Drake Equation" Look it up!


I wonder about the usefulness of an equation that could just as easily add up to zero as it could a billion. Way to narrow it down, Drake!



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Griffo515
reply to post by Misterlondon
 


The evidence has always been here, its called "The Drake Equasion" Look it up!




Look it up?


Its part of the thread...

The Drake Equation






N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
ƒp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
ƒℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
ƒc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

Radio astronomer Frank Drake developed the Drake equation so he could estimate the number of planets harboring intelligent life in the galaxy by taking into consideration the factors listed above. A rigorous estimate using the Drake Equation was implemented in 2001, which also took into consideration the number of planets that are in the habitable zone (The habitable zone is an area around a star were water is in liquid form, temperature is ideal, and photosynthesis is possible). The results found that hundreds of thousands of life-bearing planets statistically should exist. It also suggested that a habitable planet like the Earth should exist just a few hundred light years away.



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 






For example, right now, we don't know if Alpha Centari has any planets, but we probably will soon. It would be great to dig up an old carving or manuscript that specifically says Alpha Centari has three small rocky planets and three large gas giants, and there's no question about it or room for interpretation. Then we can hypothesize that whoever made the carving or wrote the manuscript had information that could not have been gotten by conventional means. Then we find out exactly how many planets Alpha Centari has. If it exactly matches, then we can at least claim a success.


actually something similar to your scenario has already happened...


The myths of the Dogon tribesmen of Mall, West Africa, contain astronomical knowledge which the native people could have neither learned by themselves nor guessed.

Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the telescope.

They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the universe.

Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called "Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive instruments -- unavailable, of course, to the Dogons -- can detect it.



posted on Nov, 14 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
But, intelligent, sentient life...not so much. Insofar as civilization-forming lifeforms are concerned, I believe we've got this universe all to ourselves.

That would be such a waste of a universe if that were true.

Superb post misterlondon, really enjoyable and thought provoking. Cheers!
S+F

p.s. I do my bit for seti@home, computer power is all I'm able to donate to the cause
edit on 14-11-2011 by digitalf because: (no reason given)





 
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