When the Earth Nearly Died

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Sorry JC,I know your plate is full already,but you must always be willing to absorb more knowledge.



I was hoping to get the book online,but they only sell hard copies
So I guess a trip to the library will have to do.

Its the cycle of life. We are currently living towards the end of a great golden age, and sooner or later it will fall. The age we live in will be legendary, and eventually mythology, with the details forgotten (or covered up), we will be the Atlantis to the future civilisations.

If we are currently in a position to wipe ourselves out, then it is very likely we have been in this position before. This is not the first advanced human civilisation and it wont be the last. I personally suspect that the great flood was some sort of planetary cleansing method after a great nuclear war, the legends say that the earth was full of violence at the end before the flood. Water, along with the other elements, has the power to not only clean up nuclear radiation but destroy and remove infrastructure. Its surprising how quick signs of civilisation disappear if there is nobody around to maintain it.

Also, I believe that knowledge from that era has been passed down, and much of what we know now has come from that, and has been slowly released to us so that the people who possess it can profit from it. Its no coincidence how a lot of discoveries came from Britain, not long after Britain started excavating the sites in Egypt.

Some more interesting books and theories from this man, Immanuel Velikovsky.

The subject that Immanuel Velikovsky has chosen is the psychological condition and case history of the human race. Virtually every aspect of human behavior, every pattern in human history, and every article of human belief, if examined and illuminated in the light of the thesis of this book, reveals how human thought and action have been shaped and molded by repressed collective memories of cosmic catastrophes that befell our ancestors as recently as one hundred generations ago. In the section "A Collective Amnesia" of Worlds in Collision, published in 1950, Velikovsky outlined his principal psychological thesis. His theory of collective amnesia explains the inability of people to look at the overwhelming evidence of global catastrophes -- from all parts of the world -- that is unequivocally there, and the unwillingness to see the implications of that evidence. Velikovsky put this as follows in Worlds in Collision: The memory of the cataclysms was erased, not because of lack of written traditions, but because of some characteristic process that later caused entire nations, together with their literate men, to read into these traditions allegories or metaphors where actually cosmic disturbances were clearly described.

www.knowledge.co.uk...

Yes this is truly possible, and it has definitely happened but maybe in older days (cf. mammoth and tropical plants found in iceberg).

Also in a more recent history, a great example of "how to destroy and remove hundreds of years of knowledge and research", is the story of the great Library of Alexandria, burnt down, and which contained thousands of unique books and knowledge still today unknown to us for sure...

The Royal Library of Alexandria, or Ancient Library of Alexandria, in Alexandria, Egypt, was the largest and most significant great library of the ancient world. It flourished under the patronage of the Ptolemaic dynasty and functioned as a major center of scholarship from its construction in the 3rd century BC until the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC. The library was conceived and opened either during the reign of Ptolemy I Soter (323–283 BC) or during the reign of his son Ptolemy II (283–246 BC).[1] Plutarch (AD 46–120) wrote that during his visit to Alexandria in 48 BC Julius Caesar "accidentally" burned the library down when he set fire to his own ships to frustrate Achillas' attempt to limit his ability to communicate by sea.[2]

[....]

The first known library of its kind to gather a serious collection of books from beyond its country's borders, the Library at Alexandria was charged with collecting all the world's knowledge. It did so through an aggressive and well-funded royal mandate involving trips to the book fairs of Rhodes and Athens[8] and a policy of pulling the books off every ship that came into port. They kept the original texts and made copies to send back to their owners.[1] This detail is informed by the fact that Alexandria, because of its man-made bidirectional port between the mainland and the Pharos island, welcomed trade from the East and West, and soon found itself the international hub for trade, as well as the leading producer of papyrus and, soon enough, books.

en.wikipedia.org...

So I also believe a pole shift happens (considering the many evidences), but I'm not sure it would have been so recent...

Originally posted by kdog1982

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by kdog1982

 

It is difficult to grow food in an ice age.
The genetics of domesticated plants shows that they were domesticated more than once.
I don't know how they figure that, but if true, it indicates a set-back somewhere along the line.

I understand that you can't grow crops in the snow and ice,but only a small portion of the globe was affected by the last ice age.

Here is a map of the world from about 18,000 years ago.


And Happybunny,I agree with you on the fact that the sea levels were lower and that much evidence was lost,as you can see from the map above.

edit on 14-11-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)

Hi kdog,

The entire Northern Hemisphere wasn't covered in ice, true, but with all that fresh water locked up in the glaciers and ice cap, the world was a lot drier in many places, particularly East Africa and even the Fertile Crescent. There isn't enough water to evaporate and cause a lot of rainfall. Forests fragmented and then turned to grassland, which need a lot less water to survive. Out of that, deserts formed. (See Lower Pleniglacial.)

If the Little Ice Age is any indication, the winters in the mid-latitudes would have been brutally cold and the summers cold and wet. Not very conducive to agriculture on a large scale and in fact crops failed all over. Imagine what it must have been like during the coldest part of the Ice Age. The mid-latitudes would have been a polar desert and even when it warmed up about 55,000 years ago there would have been cold steppes and wooded steppe. During the Eemian (the last interglacial about 110,000 years ago) it was warm and wet, similar to conditions today only a lot warmer.

Another factor is population density. There just may not have been enough people at the time to make it worth their while to band together and settle in one place. Not to mention that they might not have been able to stay in one place for very long, with the climate yoyo-ing back and forth between warm and cold conditions (which happened suddenly, not gradually).

We can argue about whether or not agriculture led to civilization or whether it was the other way around, but you can't have either without a stable climate.

Originally posted by Lighterside
I'm a firm believer in "The Great Forgetting". I think that the scientific community in general don't give enough credit to our ancestors, and have the timeline of the evolution of civilization all screwed up.

I sit on the fence over ancient aliens, but I am almost certain the humans had technology and knowledge that in some regards surpass even what we know and have today.

One can only hope that one day we might find definitive evidence of our past, something that will tell the true story of humanity. We've been here a long long time, and it's pretty clear some catastrophe happened imo, that kind of reset everything, sending us... ahem "back to the stone age" so to speak.

Great post OP.

The one thing Science forgets and leaves out when it comes to evolution is that everything else in the Universe is in cycles.......Why would only evolution not be ?

That is my trump card right there that nobody thus far can prove wrong.


It's obvious evolution is a cycle. We are in a certain part of that.

That is all....nothing more...nothing less.

Also in a more recent history, a great example of "how to destroy and remove hundreds of years of knowledge and research", is the story of the great Library of Alexandria, burnt down, and which contained thousands of unique books and knowledge still today unknown to us for sure

The Library was a source of knowledge for centuries and it resources were studied by those of that period . If you will look at classical authors they often quoted from books that probably came from the Library. There also survives a list of the catagories of books (scrolls actually) that were there and from other comments there was lots of poetry.

Other comments: Disappearance of this civilization; in short not really, if we would all drop dead or a disaster would over take us our profound disturbance of the earth and our artifacts would overwhelm a future archaeologist - as do those ancient civilizations which we have found. To disappear completely you'd have to go very very far in the future (100s of millions of years) and the destruction of all land masses would be necessary - something we know hasn't happen as their are rocks billions of years old. A few of the things we produce or modify will last in a sedimentary soil until that substance turns to rock; these would be stone tools, gems, certain metals, ceramics, stuff like glass, bricks, etc- 'we be a rather messy species'.....

This theory really interests me. I will try and order a copy of the book and give a review.

I do not agree that any human civilization has ever been as advanced or extensive as our own, but I do believe that there is a lot we can learn from the different ways any past civilizations lived.

Afterall,
To fix the present, we must repair the past.

Originally posted by PatriciusCaesar

Afterall,
To fix the present, we must repair the past.

Shouldn't that be; 'To fix the present we must understand the past?'

this makes me think of the Hindu and Vedic scriptures that talk about epochs within epochs of cycles of time

creation destruction creation again....

does not conflict with some Bible and Enoch accounts and can't be separated from the conclusion that all these ancient accounts give of beings from somewhere else sin and judgement, that is also included in the ancient texts of almost every culture that creates them so I factor that in.

we live in interesting times that we have the ability to discover evidence of these past destructions

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
this makes me think of the Hindu and Vedic scriptures that talk about epochs within epochs of cycles of time

creation destruction creation again....

does not conflict with some Bible and Enoch accounts and can't be separated from the conclusion that all these ancient accounts give of beings from somewhere else sin and judgement, that is also included in the ancient texts of almost every culture that creates them so I factor that in.

we live in interesting times that we have the ability to discover evidence of these past destructions

One must judge which is real and that which only exists in the writers imagination. Based on the archaeology of India and the subcontinent - there is a LOT of imagination

Originally posted by Lighterside
I'm a firm believer in "The Great Forgetting". I think that the scientific community in general don't give enough credit to our ancestors, and have the timeline of the evolution of civilization all screwed up.

I sit on the fence over ancient aliens, but I am almost certain the humans had technology and knowledge that in some regards surpass even what we know and have today.

One can only hope that one day we might find definitive evidence of our past, something that will tell the true story of humanity. We've been here a long long time, and it's pretty clear some catastrophe happened imo, that kind of reset everything, sending us... ahem "back to the stone age" so to speak.

Great post OP.

It goes back to the Age of Enlightenment. Europe had just left the era of the Church saying "the world is flat and the center of existence or else". And where absolutely terrified that announcing that an ancient flood did happen would do. Combine that with the rise of militant atheism, the truth becomes a very politically incorrect thing.

i read somewhere that the population doubles every hundred fifty years and if you start with 2 people 7000 years ago you will end up with approx todays 6-7 billion people thats what i read having said that and if thats true then where are all the people aborigines were here supposedly 50000 yrs ago and lets say the 150 yrs remains the same and they arrived here in a tribe of say a hundred even if there was only 2 of them you would literally not be able to walk anywhere in this country by now so there must have some real major worldwide catastrophes that have happened in the past and it looks like civilization reaches its peak every 6 to 10000 yrs so we must have had some major setbacks in the past since we have been much the same physically for the last 200 to 400 thousand yrs or so msm tells us

12,900 years ago was the time of the Clovis Comet Event.
www.pnas.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
cosmictusk.com...

But i would not say earth nearly died but it would have been very bad in north america. and bad in the northern hemisphere
South of the equator it would have been minor.

reply to post by kdog1982


With respect to population of Europe starting 40,000 years ago, you may find the following UK archaeological find interesting.

Moreton-in-Marsh stone aged axe dated to be 100,000 years old

A Stone Age hand axe which was found on a building site could help prove part of Gloucestershire was once "almost on the seaside", experts have said.

Archaeologists uncovered the finely-worked stone tool, which may be about 100,000 years old, on a housing development in Moreton-in-Marsh.

They said they believed it may have been used by cavemen on the shores of a lake that spanned across the Midlands.

The axe is thought to have been used primarily for butchering large animals.

The tool was found by Cotswold Archaeology earlier this month on the building site at The Fire Service College.

A similar axe was found nearby a few years ago, which experts said made the latest find "hugely significant".

'Great lake'

Neil Holbrook, chief executive at Cotswold Archaeology, said: "Back in the deep distant past, before the Ice Age, there was a huge lake in central Britain covering most of what is now Warwickshire and heading up to Leicestershire, which geologists now call Lake Harrison.

"Moreton-in-Marsh would have been on the southern shore of this great lake.

"Perhaps it's just too much coincidence that we've found these two prehistoric axes in that location.

"I wonder whether these Neanderthals were coming to camp and forage on the shores of the lake?

"Perhaps it points to a time when Moreton-in-Marsh was almost on the seaside."

It is hoped the axe will be put on display in the Corinium Museum in Cirencester.
.

reply to post by RelSciHistItSufi


You know, that sometimes I just wonder about all this so dating of specific archeology, and its primordial bases for same as its my understand ,that much relies upon carbon dating, and to this subject, I understand that the very first step in this system of dating occur at 125,000 years visible, and even then this is a postulation only and it is readily excepted by all as affirmative, where by that is not the case

Originally posted by RelSciHistItSufi
reply to post by kdog1982

 

With respect to population of Europe starting 40,000 years ago, you may find the following UK archaeological find interesting.

Howdy

You are mixing two ideas; Europe had modern HSS coming in around the time you mentioned. But prior to us showing up the Neanderthals had been there 100k years before

reply to post by Hanslune

Here is a little more info on the ax...

Handaxes were first used 1.8 million years ago and function as a sort of ‘Swiss army knife’ of the Stone Age. During that time they evolved from roughly shaped specimens to highly worked, symmetrical tools. This particular handaxe is an example of the latter and producing such a fine specimen would have involved a great deal of skill and expertise. However an experienced knapper could make one from a nodule of flint in about 20 minutes. The handaxe would have been used primarily for butchering large animals, but it could also be used for a variety of tasks from hide or wood working to plant processing. Most of the Bout Coupé handaxes are found in gravels and they are good indicators of the times when Neanderthals re-colonized the British Isles after a long period of human absence. It is thought that there was once a prehistoric lake around Moreton, and the Neanderthals perhaps camped on its banks. The sophisticated technique used to produce the tool, together with its symmetrical outline and attention to detail, suggest well developed cognitive skills of the Neanderthals and maybe even their understanding of the abstract concept of beauty. ShareThis

www.cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk...

Originally posted by kdog1982
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Here is a little more info on the ax...

Handaxes were first used 1.8 million years ago and function as a sort of ‘Swiss army knife’ of the Stone Age. During that time they evolved from roughly shaped specimens to highly worked, symmetrical tools. This particular handaxe is an example of the latter and producing such a fine specimen would have involved a great deal of skill and expertise. However an experienced knapper could make one from a nodule of flint in about 20 minutes. The handaxe would have been used primarily for butchering large animals, but it could also be used for a variety of tasks from hide or wood working to plant processing. Most of the Bout Coupé handaxes are found in gravels and they are good indicators of the times when Neanderthals re-colonized the British Isles after a long period of human absence. It is thought that there was once a prehistoric lake around Moreton, and the Neanderthals perhaps camped on its banks. The sophisticated technique used to produce the tool, together with its symmetrical outline and attention to detail, suggest well developed cognitive skills of the Neanderthals and maybe even their understanding of the abstract concept of beauty. ShareThis

www.cotswoldarchaeology.co.uk...

Thanks the two stories contradict one another with one stating 'about 100,000' years and the other

The finely worked stone tool is between 50,000 to 30,000 years old and provides evidence of Neanderthal presence in the area.

We'd need the original report to sort out the journalist mistake

reply to post by Hanslune

I do believe this maybe the original source,but you have to buy the publications.

www.oxbowbooks.com...

Two reports are published in this volume: excavations in 2003 at Blenheim Farm, Moreton-in-Marsh (by Jonathan Hart and Mary Alexander) and excavations in 2004 at 21 Church Road, Bishop's Cleeve (by Kate Cullen and Annette Hancocks). Significant remains recorded at Moreton-in-Marsh include a Middle Bronze Age settlement of four post-built circular structures partly enclosed by a segmented ditch, and a series of medieval fields and paddocks with a possible sheepcote structure. A Middle Palaeolithic handaxe was also recovered. The Iron Age and medieval remains recorded at Bishop's Cleeve add to our understanding of past settlement in and around the village, where extensive development has resulted in a number of significant excavations in recent years. 94p (Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Reports 5, Cotswold Archaeology 2008)