Pope: Pedophilia Was "Fully In Conformity With Man And Even With Children", page 3

reply to post by purplemer

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Believe it or not! What the curch is or not has nothing to do with SPIEGEL, what you try now is playing a game.
But I see who your friends are...

reply to post by pthena

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Sounds like imposing religious based laws upon society so that the Church(from which the standard comes) can be reformed. In other words, make the students smarter so they can straighten out the teacher

Sounds to me like the same sort of thing Judaism is pushing for, with their Noahide Laws, so we will end up with two more layers of government on top of us, from the "Church" and the "Rabbinical Council".

Originally posted by purplemer


I do not really understand this. If an attitude like this is true then you can see why there are so many problems with the church and children.
How can someone that is the head of the church say this. This is a perversion. Pope Benedict XVI should step down and the church should have a good long hard look at itself.
We live in some real messed up times...

thenewcivi lrightsmovement.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

i fully agree with your qualification: making a statement like this, given the context, is perverse.
however there's a valid point in the statement (i repeat: it's perverse given the context and the reason for making it): whether we like it or not, appreciations of behaviour (and their subsequent moral labeling) are subject to change: what we thibk to be morally right or wrong isn't right or wrong all the time, all over the place! in the seventies there was indeed a social current debating the effects of sexual relations between adults and children. these weren't perverted pedosexuals, but human scientists. panta rhei.

reply to post by AlreadyGone

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Many people would never let a young teenager drive a car... or fire and hunt with a high powered rifle... or drive a tractor down a tobbacco path... but argue that sex is a natural desire and normal developement... but do we want children raising children...we have that now in society...how is that working?

What you forget is that some people do teach their kids these things in their early years. On a farm a father may teach his 12 year old child how to properly handle a gun and hunt. The father may also teach the child how to drive the tractor around the farm. The father does this because he believes that instilling a sense of responsibility, maturity, and independence at a young age will greatly lessen their chances of making a mistake later on. Parents who try to hide the reality of sex from their child only serve to keep their children ignorant of the dangers of sex. Kids will see it as this mysterious "evil" thing that only adults should do (and it should be late at night sealed in a dark room under the covers and as quiet as possible). Then when they get the natural urge to partake in a sexual experience, they are completely ignorant of the consequences because everyone has hidden the reality of sex from them. Then they blame it on the fact they are "too young and stupid".

Originally posted by purplemer

Pope: Pedophilia Was "Fully In Conformity With Man And Even With Children"

thenewcivi lrightsmovement.com

In an end-​of-​year, shocking Christmas statement to Cardinals and other Vatican officials, Pope Benedict XVI said, “In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” and added that paedophilia wasn’t even considered an “absolute evil,” according to a report in the Belfast Telegraph.
“Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I want to reply to this, but NOT from my personal standpoint. I want to pose to everyone that we only have a current standard of "acceptable" behavior because someone before us made it so. Even in the Bible, there is nothing against what we call pedophilia. Do I think it's sick? Sure, but only because our children are developing emotional and mentally MUCH later than children from 100 years ago and even further, and ONLY if the act is generated outside the confounds of love. But to play the Devil's advocate for a moment, who originally defined that it was wrong? The same goes for Catholic clergy....who defined that they must be celibate? Not God and certainly not the Bible! The only reason why I bring up the Bible is because our laws were formed on the moral codes set within it...that is the basis of our morality, regardless of what anyone may or may not believe.

If we want to be technical, polygamy AND pedophilia existed in biblical times....Joseph was in his 40's when he married a 13 year-old Mary, for God's sake! In the middle east, marriages would occur with little girls far younger than that, to men much older. As I understand it, there is a courtesy to the families of the children that consummation of the marriage will not take place until the girl has reach maturity - usually at the time when her menstrual cycle starts. Like it or not, this is when sexual maturity has arrived. Only in modern times and in industrialized nations have we redefined what is acceptable and what isn't.

So all I'm saying is...200 years ago, or even 100 years ago, we would not be scoffing at this quite so much, because our opinions and cultural standards were a lot different. Back then, a 10 year old girl could run the entire house and farm on her own, and had the maturity of a 25 year old woman of today. A boy her age had more responsibility than most young men of today in their 20's or even 30's. They reached emotional and mental maturity twice or even three times as fast (in some cases) as the generations of today.

To further this notion, and to make a point...the only reason we scoff at incest is because of the issues with genetic deformities. THIS is the bottom line. A thousand years ago, or two thousand years ago, brothers, sisters, and parents would procreate to ensure their genetic line. There was no psychologist waiting outside the tent to deal with the "therapy" needed because a daughter got pregnant by her father. Is it gross by our standards? Yes. But I'm just making the point that back then, standards were different. It's all relevant to what we find acceptable in our times, by someone who defines what is right and what is wrong.

Given that times are always changing, where will it be in another 100 years or two? What will be considered right and what will be considered wrong? Just something to think about....

reply to post by homeslice

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I have felt the same way about the pictures I have seen of him. They capture the true essence of what is behind those eyes. It's his eyes that seem to hold the truth about what he is. The Catholic Church and many other denominations have hidden behind this veil of rightousness and goodness for hundreds of years. All of them are being exposed for what they really represent. One by one they are falling. The age of truth is upon us. I forget the exact words, but in the Book of Thomas Jesus says, "When you search for the truth, you will find it and then you will become disgusted and troubled by it". When I first read this I didn't fully understand, but now I do.

Originally posted by purplemer
Pope Benedict XVI should step down and the church should have a good long hard look at itself.
We live in some real messed up times...

The only problem I see with that is the next pope, is the last one.

The Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with the successor of current pope Benedict XVI, a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.

wiki-link

And, yes, we are in some messed up times. Even some 18-20 yr olds are too young.

ETA; If you're a pedophile, (hang yourself) you're missing the best, get an older woman, They. Are. Awesome.
Beauty can't beat experience. Cougars and whatnot.

reply to post by purplemer

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Clearly goes to show why you should never let your children go to church or partake in any activity when they are not supervised by you or someone you fully trust. Shows you how sick these popes and strange priests etc are, Also shows just how far away from reality they are when they think this is normal and that society sees it as normal.

Originally posted by verschickter
reply to post by purplemer

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Believe it or not! What the curch is or not has nothing to do with SPIEGEL, what you try now is playing a game.
But I see who your friends are...

Define yourself... What do you mean.. and who do you think my friends are...?

reply to post by caladonea

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He is the same person who was in charge of squashing liberation theology in Central America, which gave us the dead nuns and the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero.

reply to post by purplemer

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For a bunch of people that run around claiming that they will not remain ignorant you people sure jump on the bandwagon of hate and bashing real quick don't you.

READ where they took the quotes from and try to pay attention to the fact that they deliberately left parts out.

www.vatican.va...

We were all the more dismayed, then, when in this year of all years and to a degree we could not have imagined, we came to know of abuse of minors committed by priests who twist the sacrament into its antithesis, and under the mantle of the sacred profoundly wound human persons in their childhood, damaging them for a whole lifetime.

Notice the word TWIST. He is saying it's wrong.

We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.

Again He's saying its wrong.

In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.

I also love how

This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos.

Is just so conveniently left out.

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