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Arrogant europeans

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posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by mwm1331
Simple durden. The post in question is a perfect example of the type of post I was referring to. Is it in and of itself proof of my hypothesis? No. However it is the first bit of evidence. More will follow.


Fair enough, mwm1331. You're obviously free to adjust your reasoning to fit your previous argument (which is what you just did).


How exactly did I do that?




posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by drfunk
Europeans think they are better than Americans and Americans think they are better than Europeans. This will never change, because reigning ideologies and beliefs are different in each bloc.

The US believes in rampant capitalism while Europe believes in Democratic Socialism with a socially-oriented free market economy. IMO the europeans have a much better system that makes sure it works for the people and not for the few. Capitalism is a beast that needs to be controlled because it is full of many fishes trying to eat eachother and as time progresses there become a few really big fish and many really small fish. The big fish don't give a damn about the small fish and they get most of the resources.

The reason I would think that the Europeans don't appreciate the US is because the US is still a baby and hasn't learnt the lessons Europe has and acts in an awful manner. It still acts dangerously and as someone said earlier the politicians in the US (many of the right-wing politicians) are absolutely mad,are megolamaniacs and political bullies, including the illegitimate Bush regime.

i'll add more once the rebuttals come in
,

drfunk


Right on...

Lets listn to this guy



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:17 AM
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O.K. so far we have learned that the U.S. educational systems, political systems, environmental policies and economic structure is corrupt unfair and stupid. And Europe is the land of the Best of the Best. Keep it comming you arrogant euro's



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:20 AM
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good to see you learning mate!



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:22 AM
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You have voted paperclip for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


First TWATS I give out on ATS, congrats for a splendid post


I honnestly couldn't have said it better. But I would like to elaborate on 1 of the points you made.


Even in such cases the arogance and comments are directed to goverment of USA, not to all americans.


This is something I've been trying to say in so many posts in heated topics where Europeans choose not to be silent and express their concern by making comments on the US.

Most of us are smart enough to clearly state that our critisizme is about the US Goverment or specific people in that goverment. Others are caught by something that is plaging the world at the moment, the generalisation and grouping of people in black and white type groups.
People these days see in black or white, democrat or republican, conservative or liberal, good or evil, christian or muslim, Christina Aguilera or Britney Spears, American or European, Smart or dumb, strong or weak, so on and so on.


The rare occasions when a comment is made about the American people specificly, its mainly derived from that Europeans have a hard time understanding how the US Citizens talk about and see their goverment is up to no good, yet seem to let it happen and that whenever a comment by a non US person is made on the US Goverment, they attack this non US person for stating something they have been saying themselves too, in more then 1 occasion.

There are offcource also comments of critisizme directed to those people that are so diehard devoted to their goverment that they spare friend nor foe in their blind defence of this goverment, people so devoted that they don't see that their wonderfull nation is crumbling around them for only 1 reason, that being this goverment they chose to represent and defend in blind rage and hatred for everyone with the catchy line "If your not with us your against us".

We are all human beings.
We are all alike.
We all share a common history.
We all share a future.
We all want to live the american dream.

But will the road the american goverment is going now, take us to live the american dream? Will it even alow us to share a future? Will there be a future any future left to enjoy?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331

Originally posted by Durden
Fair enough, mwm1331. You're obviously free to adjust your reasoning to fit your previous argument (which is what you just did).


How exactly did I do that?


Well let's see... In the beginning of this thread I quoted your words from the "Arrogant Americans"-thread, as I felt you were contradicting yourself in starting this thread:


Originally posted by mwm1331
Ignorance as it beles an uninformed attempt to judge a complex structure based on a nonrepresentative sample.


A couple of posts later you finally received the sort of response you were hoping for, to which you quickly replied:


Originally posted by mwm1331
Mokuhadzushi - Thank you you just proved my point.


I don't know about you, but to me it sure indicated you felt this one response was enough to "prove your point". Contradictive indeed.

When I questioned this reasoning of yours, your response was:



The post in question is a perfect example of the type of post I was referring to. Is it in and of itself proof of my hypothesis? No. However it is the first bit of evidence. More will follow.


Now suddenly, one response wasn't enough to prove your point; it was merely "the first bit of evidence". How can this obvious contradiction followed by a change in argument possibly escape you?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
O.K. so far we have learned that the U.S. educational systems, political systems, environmental policies and economic structure is corrupt unfair and stupid. And Europe is the land of the Best of the Best. Keep it comming you arrogant euro's



hmmmm very disapointing, I was expecting more then that. For example, your view on why are the enviromental policies of current bush administration better then the current european ones, what are the positive sides of your education in primary and high schools compared to european schools, or why is a two party system better then the system with 5-6 parties we have here, why is pure capitalism better in general then democratic socialism.
I personaly come from a messed up third world country, but I can still say that numbers and statistics show that the best countries in the world are indeed european ones, as I said, mostly North Europe. That is not arrogant, that is stating facts.
The only way to improve faults in your own system is to look for better ones and try to model your solutions based on those who have already done it quite well.
I said that it is the nature of Europeans to criticize their goverment constantly. That alone indicates that european systems are by no means perfect (if they were, there would be nothing to bitch about). Pointing out whats wrong with the system is not arogance, it is desire to make it better.


[edit on 3-9-2004 by paperclip]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:31 AM
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Reply to taibunsuu:

Chill, apology accepted.


I though brit rock was emulating trend in the US (still us influence coming this way) but they just did it better and sent it back. Just like marco polo bringing pasta to Italy but they did it better.

[edit on 3/9/2004 by Corinthas]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:35 AM
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hmmmm very disapointing, I was expecting more then that. For example, your view on why are the enviromental policies of current bush administration better then the current european ones, what are the positive sides of your education in primary and high schools compared to european schools, or why is a two party system better then the system with 5-6 parties we have here, why is pure capitalism better in general then democratic socialism.


well done Paperclip! I would like to hear as well the case for pure capitalism over democratic socialism. What country in Europe are you from btw?



[edit on 3-9-2004 by drfunk]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:38 AM
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Durden -Allthough I see your point It was not my intention to use a single post as proof. Allthough I suppose had I used the term "illustrate" as opposed to prove it would have solved our misunderstanding.

I will be more than happy to state why I belive that our way is better once more of those who believe thier way is better have posted.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by thematrix

You have voted paperclip for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


First TWATS I give out on ATS, congrats for a splendid post


I honnestly couldn't have said it better.


Whoa... thanks!!




We are all human beings.
We are all alike.
We all share a common history.
We all share a future.
We all want to live the american dream.


Well said




@ drfunk: I am from Bosnia, but I've been living in Austria for 8 years now.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 07:48 AM
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You're a retard. You have a choice to listen to stupid pop music and eat junk food. If you're dumb enough to give money to those types, then suffer. Let me see a law saying you have to. As far as Chomsky proving America's evil, guess what every superpower goes through that stage. When Napoleon was running all over Europe I'm sure his soldiers were fighting with flowers. France helped out the US a lot in the Revolution against King George, thank you very much. I honestly don't give a crap how you feel about the US but to say we invaded Europe and made it ours is a load of #e.


Come on, don't bring up that Revolution stuff. We all know that France supplies around 90% of the powder used by the army but I will have to bring up when the US has helped France. The American Revolution inspired the Frence citizens to rise up and topple the monarchy. The US helped France in WW1, WW2, and the Cold War. Dont say that Fance could of protected itself during the Cold War either. It was a speed bump.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:13 AM
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With the amount of insults (one of which I got an apology for) that were offered as replies, the US seems to win on the arrogance front i think.



@mwm1331:

You see my signature now? You can't bless me with him 'coz hes dead, nietzsche killed him in 1887. See how childish I can get ?

"Great man has childs mind" Lao Tse
(that's goin into my sig an all!)


EDit: would you believe it's spelling again? ][

[edit on 3/9/2004 by Corinthas]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:32 AM
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Cornthas why would I care what your signature says?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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From my understanding, most European Democracies are multi-party institutions, usually with the inablility for one party to claim a majority. Because of this, coalitions are formed in order to create a semblance of a majority. As a result, the "Majority" has a need to cater to each of its constituant parts, or "special interests". This creates a lumbering government unwilling to do anything radical, and invites the "throwing a bone" appeasement startegy in order to preserve the majority. Kind of like the special interests of the Democrat and Republican parties, but muchmore obvious, becuase they are ACTUALLY different political parties.

It's not that European countries are more peace loving and kind than the U.S., it's that they are even more slow to action because to their political systems. Kind of a "Peace through In-Action". thing going on...

Our "cowboy" image comes from the fact that the U.S., with its two party system, is easier able to react and act upon its policies, whereas European countries require much more support for any foreign policy that the country wnts to enact.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
We have British and French movies that make big splashes over here each year and if Europe had as big a movie industry as the US we would be watching as many European movies as Europe watches US movies. It's natural economics and ebb-and-flo of culture.


I doubt that. Most people like American movies much more than European movies...Even in Europe. The cinema's where the fullest when American movies were playing.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
O.K. so far we have learned that the U.S. educational systems, political systems, environmental policies and economic structure is corrupt unfair and stupid. And Europe is the land of the Best of the Best. Keep it comming you arrogant euro's


I'm very sorry but it must be true. How else do you explain the possibility of a schizophrenic war criminal accessing to presidency ?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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Prove the Schizophrenia...

Prove the War criminal allegations...

In the legit media...

Can't do it?

Oh wait....that's because they are controlled by the same persons who put him in office...

It's neat how people in social disorders and mental instability are able to create their own little worldview, and populate it with rationalizations to fill in the holes in their logic...

Proof is nice because it can't be denied...

Unless you are a liberal..



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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Bush is a war criminal :

Read the Geneva Conventions and the statutes of the UN.

Attacking another country and killing tens of thousands without authorization by the UN security council is a war crime. Hence Bush is a war criminal.

Bush also broke the Geneva Convention a number of times by ordering napalm to be used on iraqi footsoldiers. This is a war crime, ordered by the administration and perpetrated by the US Marines.

The hundreds of suspects detained illegally at camp guantanamo also constitutes an extremely heavy breach of the Geneva Convention, not to mention torture (crimes against humanity) to which the detainees are being subjected to.

This is enough for several lifetimes in prison for the whole Bush regime. The day the United states will adhere to the ICC, (soon to be coming if Kerry is elected) the criminal Bush will be held accountable of his crimes.

Besides, the Abu Ghraib torture scandal is currently being traced to the generals abizaid/sanchez. Perhaps it will trace even higher up, which could lead to an indictment for crimes against humanity.

I don't have to account for Bushes mental constitution. Only a mentally very very ill person can exclaim "bring em on" when hostages are being executed every week. This man has a dangerous mental sickness and should end his life in a cage in The Hague after thorough psychiatric treatment.

Bush is mentally sick :

www.larouchepub.com...



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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For the record, I think there is a high proportion of arrogance on this site regardless of geography.


If Bush is a schizo war criminal and a rise to power of someone his ilk could never happen in the European community, then why do we have the support of so many other nations? Do they just want a temporary shot at being An Evil Schizo War Criminal too? Blair never struck me as a particularly stupid man, and yet he stands with us. Or is it just everybody but him that's ok?

As far as Americans badmouthing America vs. others doing it, it's like the old problem of "I can talk bad about my mama, but nobody else better!".



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